首先谢谢您的回复。
我认识的那人是个教德语的,她在课堂上选编些用德文写作的外国人的文章,她本来想用您的文章,不过后来没有用,最大的原因是:您的作品是个德国人翻译的,还有就是我下面写的(根据她的表述,希望没有改变她的意思)
她觉得您写道Petrus出现以前都很不错,不过从那以后就出现如下问题:主要是层次上存在科幻(此前的部分),Petrus出现后,随这个词汇等待出的宗教层面(您没有用Peter 二是选用了Petrus),童话色彩(他们可以满足“我”的愿望),哲学层面(毛哲学)。层面太多,有没有理得太清楚。
您把毛和Messias联系起来Christus联系起来,她觉得非常不妥。他们是有比较相同的目的,帮扶弱者,使得人人都能获得做人的权利。可是他们实现目的的道路是大相径庭的,Christus没有使用Macht, 也没有如毛一样的Fehler,jemanden umbringen是Christus不可想象的。她觉得您这个东西是否两边都不讨好呢?是否会在西方因此伤害到一些基督教徒呢?(有的宗教很敏感)因为这个联想是不那么妥当的。当然虽然她是个天主教徒,不过她倒并没有觉得受到伤害,只是她觉得既然要涉及,还是得弄清楚。而且您的文章有一定影响力,那就更应该查实。(德国人在这方面的确非常严谨)。
至于那几个信徒,Juda最接近大众眼中的形象,但严格看来,是个悲剧性人物。Petrus从来就没有那种能力给予别人什么。
还有关于太阳她也不怎么理解,我想您是否是因为以前都有称他为红太阳。如果我解释得不对请指正,我好下次告诉她。她讲红宝书什么的她都知道,电视上常看到。您写的“天杀的”翻译为furchtbar她也觉得很难理解,我觉得可能翻译是否得在考虑呢?我们“天杀”的骂人用的,是否可以用verfluchtet,在两口之间是种甜蜜的责怪,满是爱意,您在用的时候,那些富人就是又恨又畏,诅咒是少不了的。
另一个翻译的疑虑我问了下她,她看了Vermischung von Maennern und Frauen认为是男女以后不再带上性别,只是成为人,而我觉得这里是提倡杂婚。不知道我理解错了呢还是?
至于您的梦想,在婚礼上背上两段歌德大作,其实从现在天天背,不到您结婚早就烂熟于心,怕就是背太早,新娘还没有出现。:-)
朋友果然非常高兴听到您的问候,也托我问您好,说您在巴州可以好好再研究研究宗教。
- posted on 01/21/2005
谢谢你的朋友的疑问,我的回答如下:
弥撒亚更多的属于旧约或者犹太教而非后来的基督教,在这里,末世旧赎情结是马克思共产主义理想的底本。耶稣是后来你们道德或者太道德的人们的思想构造物,当然,我是站在不信基督教的立场上,用构造的立场来解释基督形象的,但这并不妨碍我和她对基督形象本身的内涵及其意义的认同。因为我也认为基督是纯粹的善,只不过我多了一些想法,那就是这种纯粹的善由于过于纯粹而显得伪善,作为他一个个体,他有权那么去做,但他要去人们人人信奉他,那么这就有疑问,当然,我知道信仰不需要疑问,但是,作为知识分子就得有疑问,就得疑问他们信仰基督教本身是不是一个共同的阴谋,阴谋别人的信仰存在和无信仰存在是一种光阴虚度,阴谋自己总是代表了伟大光明和正确?当旧约从恶的一面来证实自己的神的伟光正时,新约是不是从善的一面在做同样的事?
光考虑动机自然不必发问那么多,但这个世界,多少群众性的善良动机造成邪恶的后果?
很多个案可以证明信了基督的人是多么的善良,但这无法在逻辑上否证基督教在群体运动中依然有着邪恶的阴影,而要是基督本人又是一个虚构的善良形象的话,那么,剩下还有多少理论基础可以证明它比毛理论更人性呢?
我想京不特做的一些工作,包括对尼采的解读,就是为了说清楚差不多的事情,免得人人都以为,尼采也是基督徒。刘小枫是,但尼采不必是。
但有一点我很愉快,那就是我可以这样直接批评犹太教或基督教,并能同时得到冷静的批评与回应,然而,这在伊斯兰世界或共产主义世界里,却是不可能的,因为他们喜欢剁头和批斗,可见文明之间的差异,一点点就够。
犹大在我的理解里,不过是一出戏里扮演了一个反面角色,我们可以说这个人怎么这么坏啊,但我们说的是演的角色,而非演员本人坏。如果上帝是存在的,那么基督只是正面人物第一号罢了。至于副编剧,我觉得撒旦是非常合适的人选。至于彼得,在里面由于有一个管钥匙的职务,所以在会心一笑上可以更有趣些。这是樊克的主意,我很喜欢,就这么写了。
关于furchtbar和verfluchtet,当时樊克也犹豫良久,后来听了我的意思后他选择了前者,也许回头我还需要和他细论这个地方,谢谢你朋友的指出。
Vermischung von Maennern und Frauen这里你的理解正确。康有为就想通过亚洲和欧洲杂婚来改变中国落后的面貌,但他有种族主义者嫌疑,我不喜欢他这个论调。反正没有科学的人类学的地方,就有种族基调的市场,全世界看来都一样。
又:如果你觉得方便的话,还有什么需要交流的,不妨跟贴在后面而不要另外发新贴,因为这里有很多朋友,如果我和你的讨论占据了太多的首页标题资源,也许会给别人看其他帖子造成不方便,谢谢。
还有我们彼此用你相称也能方便些的。:-) - posted on 01/28/2005
朋友很高兴听到你的答复,听得很认真。听完了,她也想发表点看法。
她觉得应该把历史中的 Rabbi Jesus和后来的基督教会区分开来。Rabbi Jesus没有真正反对犹太教,只是指出他没有真正按照上帝的旨意行事。Rabbi Jesus受到两边的迫害,包括罗马人。后来的基督教会是组织机构,在它内部以及来自外部的确如你所说长时间都不过是阴谋。而他们自认为能接近上帝。当然她个人觉得如果没有教会的存在,她作为个人又无从知晓Rabbi Jesus的历史,因此很这一点上她承认教会有其存在的价值。但是信仰的个人的事,虽然教会还想获得权威(专制的时代对于教会已经不复存在),但信仰的个体可以以批判的姿态出现。
她还是觉得名字的翻译上存在问题。为什么用了Petrus,却不用Paulus?用了由宗教意义的人名,为什么没有让人感到材料来源的影子,因为你毕竟用的是历史中的人物,而非其象征意义(当然她也觉得这个问题对作家来说是否banal了,哦,我跟另一个不是教徒的朋友说起这事的时候,她觉得你作为作家有自己创作的自由,如果受什么束缚,我们还能看到什么作品,不过她也奇怪翻译在选字的时候为什么没有统一)
她还想问为什么说Petrus掌管钥匙?是因为和后来教皇的关系吗?
Juda也不好用角色和演员来比,而是自己有自己的两面性。
- posted on 01/28/2005
Sorry here Reykjavik I can only type in English.
Frau Stein-Meintker gave me a wonderful reply which clearly split any crime or dirt from Jesus, and put him back to Rabbi Jesus, as she mentioned.
Logically speaking, this process is reasonable.
But then, another puzzle emerges: If she returns Jesus into Rabbi Jesus, that means image of him returns from religion to history.
In history, even he is purly innocent, he himeself still should be existed as a human for ever, but not a half-human-half-God. That is to say, or the miracle and stories about coming back to life in new testment, are all belonging to man-made literature or mythdology, but just not: Truth, or, true fact.
I know some theologists tried to mend the gap between the religion and history, they tried to prove in history Rabbi Jesus as a human is existed, and at the same time, he as a Gods'son, is also existed.
Then they have to encounter some trouble in the field of meta-theory: How can we mix up history with religion? is there something unmatchable in methodology?
Though your another friend is quite tolerant to writer's work, but to me, if personal fiction can match social funtion, it will be much harmneous.
About the question of Petrus and Paulus, I still need to ask Mr. Frank Meinshausen.
after ten days past then I will go back to Baryarn.
Enjoy snow days. :-)
- Re: 七格,这里转述朋友的意思posted on 01/28/2005
好了,这下省事了,转述可以变转交了。
- Re: 七哥哥,回上海没有?posted on 02/04/2005
忘记你的邮件地址了,是msn那个么? - Re: 七哥哥,回上海没有?posted on 02/04/2005
hai mei you, ni yong na ge msn de hotmail di zhi, wo zhe li neng shou dao. - posted on 02/09/2005
Thank you for your discussion. I feel that I should respond in my lay
manner:
1. The historic person , definitely should be rememberd, but there are
many who we should remember (from the realm of historic persons) for their good
deads and sayings.
So the next questions is: what makes this historic person so special? I
can only explain it that this person had a calling: the "profession" as a rabbi and - going along with that and exceeding it - an inner calling, namely a message for at first his own people, then others who started to listen to him.
2. Now it gets very difficult: the Old TestaMENT IS A RELIGIOUS
HISTORY, TELLS ABOUT HISTORIC (NOT IN OUR NEW SENSE OF THE word) events and tells of
the "dialogue" between man and God. Jesus lives in this tradition therefore you cannot
separate him from religion or his religious bindings to his God/Father (e.g. Father for all). The problem with religion is twofold a. theology as a development over centuries and that to a great extent man-made (the bad examples are sufficient proof) b. it is nothing that can be compared to our natural science way of thinking; it's a matter of belief, wanting to believe or not. The only comparison I can think of is love, especially
- like it should be - between family members. There is something unmatchable, as you say, and that is our human condition - the material existence, the person in history - and on the other hand our quest to find out where we come from and there we'll go. If it's a purely intellectual quest we may not pose the right questions and consequently not be able to receive the correct answers; if it is a spiritual quest then everybody is a bit on his/her own. Some guidance along the way can help. One canot be forced on this quest, the basis is essentially freedom (of choice) as much as you cannot be forced to love. So this is what I can contribute in a nutshell and somewaht in a hurry.
My concern was twofold: a. if you use the vocabulary, the names/associations you
yourself must inform yourself on the subject and second b. What about your readers?
I just do not like cocktails or a mix-up; I do appreciate everything
on its own merit and definitely a intercultural or inter- dialogue and learning.
Do not be mistaken, I also have a critical view on our institutions,
and I am grateful that I can live in this century where we have a lot of personal freedom so we can make up our minds without the danger to our life. I know we could discuss for quite a while - but our semester will end, and I thank our very kind interpreter who is also a very busy person which I know. Have a good time in Bavaria and all the best, maybe we'll have another opportunity to discuss and talk
Annalisa - Re: 七格,这里转述朋友的意思posted on 02/10/2005
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