3/21/1685
Teri Noel Towe wrote (March 21, 2002):
Today is the 317th anniversary of the birth of Johann Sebastian Bach.
State of the List, Bach's Birthday, etc[BACH-LIST]
Santu De Silva wrote (March 20, 2003):
It's been a couple of years since I assumed responsibility for the day-to-day running of this list. One of the first few posts I made was to suggest that we observe J.S.Bach's birthday on March 21. (Note: this was the date according to the calendar in use in that part of Thuringia at the time of his birth; it can be established that it was the date the rest of the world regarded as June 21st, or something like that. But that's not really important; it's just an excuse to celebrate this most wonderful man and his accomplishments, and to allow ourselves the liberty of stepping back from the cares of our (presently tension-wrought) lives to recall a man who lived in a time that may have been less enlightened, but certainly contained far less potential for international chaos. Yes, yes, it's all relative! But...
I'm calling for any ideas for us to celebrate the date March 31 (J.S. Bach's birthday or unbirthday, it doesn't matter). Remember this is your list, and if I do not reply to these posts personally, please do not feel slighted. (I have been concerned these past few years --perhaps overly concerned-- with NOT seeming to impose my 'personality' on the list!) But if there are lots of ideas, I'll help to select one.
Some general information:
1. Traffic on the list has been very low. This is partly my own fault, since I have not tried very hard to stimulate discussions.
2. However, that is only what the list "sees." There are usually one or two daily Spams that come to me for 'approval' which I simply delete. The Spam volume is far greater than the remaining list volume! So as far as you members of the list are concerned, our "self-moderation" is working beautifully.
3. It is sad that this list (which had appropriated the most general name a Bach list could have) is one of the least active. While I don't think we have to be the most active Bach list, I feel that I should do something to make it more useful to members. (I'm sure there's a book out there called 'List Ownership For Idiots' which I could buy and profitably read!) In the meantime, if you have suggestions for revitalizing the list, I will be glad to try them.
Don't get me wrong; I'm not wallowing in misery.I'm only anxious that I shouldn't be indifferent to your needs. The list can crawl along like this, but it does seem a pity!
4. There are other Bach lists you could join. They are far more active, and controversial and at times contentious. It seems that you cannot have an active list without some level of disagreement. As I have pointed out often, there are two lists in particular that are exceptional, namely the
Bach Recordings List, and the Bach Cantatas List.
They are both hosted on Yahoogroups.com, and are just the thing for those of you who are past the initial "Man, I do love Bach" stage and are ready to get into serious
discussion of those particular topic areas. I do not think we should consider our list to be in competition with them, because... -->
5. Our niche. There have been several experts on this list, some of whom have been insulted by opinionated amateurs. But I have been firm about not censoring opinions too much. I believe that our niche is to provide information and encouragement to those who are just beginning their exploration of the music of J. S. Bach. Such members are obviously too inexperienced to be much impressed with the authority of our more expert members. As a result, many of the more knowledgeable (sp?) members of our list have either departed, or are content to lurk. On the other hand, the few experts who have been content to endure our abuse, been patient with us and remained with us are truly remarkable and gracious people! I salute them. in my humble opinion, we're here to
(1) give positive feedback to those who have discovered Bach and are in an initial state of euphoria!
(2) provide information for further exploration of Bach's music,
(3) answer questions from 'newbies' who might not be knowlegeable enough to phrase their questions clearly; e.g. try to identify movements or works based on possibly rather sketchy descriptions,
etc, etc. This does not preclude us from discussing more abstruse topics, but our primary mission seems to be at a more non-academic level (at least to me).
6. The list has reached a membership of around 325, which is quite respectable. The vast majority of posts to the list comes from non-members, apparently from the far east! Unfortunately, they consist of primarily advertisements (i.e. spam) which I simply delete.
Well, that's the state of the list. Please feel free to write to me about your concerns.
Pat Maimone [Organist-Director of Musical Activities, Post Chapel, West Point, October 1975 - June 2003] wrote (March 20, 2003):
[To Santu De Silva] Dear Arch and [other 323] Listers, :-)
At West Point, NY, we celebrate Bach's Birthday annually on the 21st of March. Our concert program this year includes the following:
Three Chorale Preludes from the "Orgelbüchlein"
"Jesu, meine Freude"
"Herr Gott, nun schleuss den Himmel auf"
"O Mensch, bewein dein' Sünde Gross"
Contralto aria "Bereite dich, Zion" from the Christmas Oratorio (BWV 248)
Fugue in G minor for unaccompanied Violin
Prelude in D Major for Organ, BWV 532
Arias from Cantatas BWV 16 and BWV 51 with instrumental obbligato of English horn and trumpet, respectively
The concluding chorale from Cantata BWV 16, which follows the aria "Geliebter Jesu."
The audience's singing Bach's harmonization of the Passion Chorale "O Sacred Head, Now Wounded."
Five different organists will participate; three work full-time at three different chapels of the United States Military Academy, West Point, NY.
We will also have birthday cake and ice cream following the concert, which is at 12 noon at the Old Cadet Chapel, Washington Road, West Point, NY.
Happy Bach's Birthday to all, whenever you choose to celebrate the 318th anniversary of the Master's natal day!
Santu De Silva wrote (March 20, 2003):
May I suggest the following for our Bach day activity!
Each list member writes in to suggest two (2) works that he/she likes, and wishes to recommend to the rest of us. In addition, they may suggest one recording of each of those.
[Yes, this is a "make a list" activity, but I personally get so much fun out of them!]
After we've waited a week to collect a few responses, everyone gets a second chance to make a further two recommendations.
extra rules:
(1) No fair suggesting ALL the Brandenburgs as a single work.Same goes for the other cycles, e.g. the french Suites, etc.
(2) when possible, provide an English equivalent for titles; e.g. Weihnachtsoratorium is perfectly clear, but some of us might not recognize it right away ...
(3) provide more than just the BWV number when possible, but by all means provide the BWV if you know it.
(4) you may annotate your submission with additional information, but that's not essential. (But I hope you do!)
P.S. The graphic mentioned in Mr Abraham's post is at: http://www.Lycoming.edu/~desilva/birthday2003.jpg
P.P.S To those members who live in the Middle East, or who have friends there, our thoughts are with you. I fervently hope that we do not embark on a political discussion, but it seems inhuman to not recognize the existence of what all sides recognize as a tragedy!
Karl Berry wrote (March 21, 2003):
Bach's Birthday [BACH-LIST]
< Each list member writes in to suggest two (2) works that he/she likes > I like this idea very much. So here are my two works, FWIW:
1) Art of Fugue, Contrapunctus XIV (the unfinished one), BWV 1080,19. The recording I'd like to recommend is Glenn Gould's on piano, on CD (Sony 87759, Bach: the Art of Fugue) and even more on video (GG Collection #15: An Art of Fugue).
I know that not everyone likes Gould's ideas or, well, ``unusual'' performances, and that is, of course, totally fine and understandable. The main reason I'm recommending this anyway is not so much musical (there are many fine performances of the A.of.F) as extramusical -- Gould recorded this near the end of his too-short life, and hearing and seeing him perform the piece, abruptly breaking off where Bach's ms. stops, never fails to move me.
Oh, and for anyone who doesn't know the story behind the Art of Fugue, I recommend Christoph Wolff's books -- Bach: Essays on his life and music, and JSB: The Learned Musician. There is strong evidence to believe that this last Cp. was actually finished by Bach, but the completion was written on separate paper and lost. A tragedy, of course, and yet I'm not altogether sad about it. Having it incomplete somehow allows the music to go on.
2) My second recommendation is not so monumental :). Fugue in g minor for lute, BWV 1000. Recording: Lutz Kirchhof, JS Bach: the works for lute in original keys and tunings, Sony S2K 45858.
I believe this is an adaptation of one of the unaccompanied violin movements (it's great there too :), and I've just always found this melody irrresistible. One of those tunes that can stick in your head all day. Well, my head anyway :).
Thanks for the idea, Arch. And taking care of all the spam :).
Happy birthday JSB!
Santu De Silva wrote (March 21, 2003):
(1) the opening chorus of BWV 148: Bringet dem Hern...
My first hearing of this was on a Cd featuring a boy's choir which I have forgotten, and I'm still in the process of narrowing it down. It was paired together with BWV 147 (which contains the well-known chorale Jesu joy of man's desiring). Both cantatas feature a solo trumpet.
(2) Let me suggest the Gigue from the French suite in G major. My favorite recording of this is on percussion, played by Brian Slawson. ("There you go again, Arch, with your Brian Slawson!")
Gigues are great fun, as most of us will agree, and I believe this one is a jollier gallop than most!
Michael Stitt wrote (March 21, 2003):
Celebrating by playing all lauten musik
[To Santu De Silva] I'm playing all the Bach lute suites here in Canberra Australia today, but backwards, starting from BWV 1006a to BWV 995 on my 14 course swan neck theorbo-lute.
Happy Bach's birthday to all!
Barry Murray wrote (March 21, 2003):
[To Michael Stitt] I'm celebrating Bach's birthday by listening to a cross section of his music. I have just received the Partitas by Scott Ross. It's my first opportunity to hear the Partitas. I will also listen to some Cantatas. Great to see some activity on our list. This was the first music list to which I subscribed.
Allan Balmer wrote (March 22, 2003):
Music for March 21
MUSIC FOR BACH'S BIRTHDAY
Having consulted [ albeit transcandentally ] with JSB to get his views on the subject, may I suggest the following:
Goldberg Variations [BWV 988]
1. Glenn Gould [ piano ] - 1955
2. Glenn Gould [ piano ] - 1981
Sony Classical Legacy SM3K87703
Robin Crag wrote (March 24, 2003):
A bit late, but hey never mind.
Rather than 2 big works, i suggest 4 little ones.
The 4 "duets" from clavieruebung 3, bwv 802-805.
They are not duets in the normal sense, they are like 2part inventions, only longer and very "contrapunctal".
I don't think they're my favourite work by Bach... but they deserve to be better known I think.
They are very beautiful, and also slightly weird!
The first one (in e minor) is the weirdest of the lot, and is somehow very sexy. It is full of strange changes of harmony. If I have got this right (which is not that certain, as im not very good:-), it is made up completely of 4 different subjects all combined in different ways. There is nothing that doesnt belong to the subjects until the last 2 bars!
The 3rd one (in G) stands out, because it is somehow gentler than the others. It is shorter, and less "contrapunctal" (i.e. in places, the right hand sings and the left hand just accompanies). There is a feeling of simple joy, but also some little darker moments.
The 2nd (in F) Has a more sophisticated type of joy, and lots of darkness too.
The 4th (in a minor) Is beautiful too, but I havent got anything very intresting to say about it, and its time to go to bed...
Pat Maimone wrote (March 24, 2003):
[To Santu De Silva]
(1) Organ - Fugue in E Flat Major (St. Anne) BWV 552.2 Performance: come hear me play it live! This morning it was the prelude to worship
at the Post Chapel, West Point, NY.
(2) Duet - Wir eilen mit schwachen (Cantata 78) BWV 78 How many recordings are there of this joyful duet?
(3) Harpsichord (or if one is not available, piano) Gigue from Partita No. 1 in B Flat Major
Select your own favorite recording of this one! I played it on the piano as the postlude at church today.
Santu De Silva wrote (March 26, 2003):
Yet another apology: the image I published was indeed sent by Daniel Abraham:
>>> Is it possible to forward this to the list -- a picture does sometime say a 1,000 (or more) word--but the server wil not allow it without owner permission Thanks!
>>> and the picture contains a portrait of a man in early middle-age, surrounded by several young people. (The picture has been altered to depict them appropriately clothed for an (American) birthday celebration!
Readers may be interested to learn that this portrait that was considered for many years as depicting Bach and his sons has been tentatively identified by Terry Noel Towe as, in fact, that of Christian Ferdinand Abel, a cellist of the same period (c. 1730). All this information is in TNT's website called "The Face of Bach" which has a lot of fascinating information and conjecture. The url is: http://www.npj.com/thefaceofbach/abg02.html
Happy birthday, Johann Sebastian
Laszlo Szidai wrote (March 21, 2003):
Happy birthday!
Happy Birthday
Pete Blue wrote (March 21, 2003):
Today, the 21st of March, I'm overjoyed to remind myself, is the 318th anniversary of the birth of Johann Sebastian Bach. A perfect time to listen to (and even try to play) the B Flat Major Partita BWV 825. One feels reborn just reveling in its infinite inventiveness, wit and charm. I'm listening at the moment to the Courante, which evokes for me Anthony Trollope's description of the surf on the Isle of Wight: "the infantile babble of baby waves."
Piotr Jaworski wrote (March 21, 2003):
[To Pete Blue] I'm sure that JSB would not mind to listen to Paul McCreesh performance of his own SMP as the part of his Birthday Celebration!
I'd very, very much like to learn his opinion about that ....
From my part - this will be the Work and the Recording I will listen again and again for the forthcoming weekend - in fact - already the second weekend with this very interesting recording.
Thomas Radleff wrote (March 21, 2003):
[To Pete Blue] It is Bach愀 birthday; it should be the beginning of spring (it愀 awfully cold in Central Europe), and it愀 another day in the never ending history of mankind愀 incredible stupidity.
Dear Pete, Piotr and others,
thank you so much for mentioning today such hopeful messages as b-minor Mass and the "baby waves" of the B-major Partita; you took me out of a mood that愀 nearer to "Ich habe genug" a.o.
Let愀 hope that our list contact, and of course Bach愀 music, will help us not only staying to the brighter sides of our existence, but maybe inspiring us for more creativity and positive intuition in solving severe problems of coexistence.
Do you remember John Miles?(very slick) late 70s hit?
"Music was my first love
and it will be my last.
Music of the future
and music of the past.
To live without my music
would be impossible to do,
惡ause in this world of troubles
my music pulls me through."
P.S. Recently got a very quirky and dynamic piano recording of the 6 Partitas, by Risto Lauriala, done 1992 with tFinnish label Alba. Recommended.
March 21, 1685
Teri Noel Towe wrote (March 21, 2003):
Today is the 318th anniverary of the birth of Johann Sebastian Bach.
Bach's birthday
Neil Mason wrote (January 24, 2005):
My amateur choir is planning a dinner on 21st March (Bach's birthday).
I would welcome suggestions as to appropriate music for the choir to perform.
Thank you
Doug Cowling wrote (January 24, 2005):
[To Neil Mason] I would write new words a confect a pasticcio cantata from easy moevments of the "Peasant" (BWV 212) and "Coffee" (BWV 211) cantatas.
Bach's birthday [Mozart&Bach Lovers ML]
Harvey Crichton wrote (March 21, 2005):
Bach`s Date of Brith was March 21, 1685.... That makes him 320 years old!!
http://www.carolinaclassical.com/bach/childhood.html
He died in 1750. So has been 255 years composing in heaven with God up there with Mozart and Beethoven and the others.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY from down here Sebastian!!!
Barbara wrote (March 21, 2005):
[To Harvey Crichton] THankyou Harvey for that excellent website. I will enjoy browsing and learning.
wouldn't it be fantastic when if ever we reach heaven to bask in even more divine music.
I guess everytime we play or drench our spirits with BACH we are
Praising and thanking him. barbara.
Harvey Crichton wrote (March 21, 2005):
[To Brabara] I wouldn`t be suprised if Bach has already had some influence on the Angels and God`s own personal music dept. already!!!
I`m quite certain I shall be priviliged to hear it..... I can`t speak for anyone else even in this Group!! But I hope you are there to join me Babs!! : )
Lol
Barbara wrote (March 21, 2005):
[To Harvey Crichton] aaH HARVEY how magical would that be LOL.
don't you think that the most beautiful music has been written in praise of GOD?
Do you believe in Reincarnation? when these geniuses? visit earth for short period and transform our lives and passions so easily--How manytimes have they dwelt among us?
WHen we consider that so may of them were here for so short a time
Has Mozart reappeared would you think?
Musicians and artists had to suffer also and did that imbue their
creativeness with that elixir of Passion Despair Desire?
In life if we suffer are we not more creative and emotional.
I feel that to write great music must be the ultimate in life.
ART too has power to take over our lives but somehow music can transform our whole way of life and thinking, feeling, don't you agree?
Harvey you have better vocabulary than I--so I am sure can do justice to describing the effects great music has upon we mortals.
Many thanks also for the paragraphs that makes for easier reading.
That is enormous help.
One thing about composers. I wonder if any orchestras ever do full justice to the sound that the composer created.
It could be so frustrating if its not just PERFECT!!! LOL.
our friday U3A ruin poor old mozart and bach greig etc--and I pray those poor composers cannot hear us!!!!
Harvey Crichton wrote (March 21, 2005):
[To Brabara] I believe to be religious is to believe the end is not the end.
I believe if religions are true... all ways to Godhead are permissable..Hindu`s, Buddhists, Muslims.. and anyone who becomes enlightened and good..such is the universe. I.e. God does not discriminate.
I do believe however that religions should all keep to basic humanistic principles....before they veer off into logical aberations of their own which may not fit into the tolerance of all other religions and humanism.
I also think that Christianity has great beauty and great sublimity in it`s mysteries and arts and in my case it happens to be the one I`m used to so I stick with it incl it`s cultural heritgae. I know Goethe dispared of Christian Art...but I am rather fond of it and Goethe.. However I also find the beauty in the Koran. The Gita, Tibet, Egypt, and Buddhsit texts also rather wonderful as I do fairy tales of all nations which I used to collect. I have a massive collection of fairy tales from round the world from all nations. All good stuff. I appreciate a vast world culture... whether that is Buddhist stories of Monkey to whatever... Krishna is up to and the sunsets in the Koran....
I not long a time ago past a wesbite where you got one gem of wisdom each day from each major world religion. Struck me a good thing to sign up for : )
I have a varied interest in what Heaven is... and have decided through all the different interpretations from Mormons being in it but choose again to come down to serve again when the time is right to being in Heaven in Buddhist heaven you come down again to a rebirth after time in heaven pending your Karmic points...enless you reach Nirvana which is outside of rebirth and all ofcourse....MANY different types even within Christianity...Interesting topic heaven...However to answer your question....
Being full of Buddha Conciousness and enlightened ( someone tell Dex ) then I`m sure I will by pass reincarnation in the next life and be a being of full nirvana escape or sent right to heaven.Whether I come down to serve again is yet to be seen.
: )
Only when I prince comes down to sweep the streets will the will be saved. - Buddha.
That is a true saying and I`m not making that one up .
: )
Cryodex wrote (March 22, 2005):
[To Harvey Crichton] You would support religion H considering it is designed to take money out of the pockets of the poor uneducated.
Harvey Crichton wrote (March 22, 2005):
I support religion as the consequences without decent people of duty serving something higher than themselves and reaching to the ultimate goals of all they can be within is infinitely better to a Godless world under World New Age president Russell Grant.
Life is a strange thing isn`t it.... Beautiful music, sky and art ..you`d think people would be more understanding with a world of so much beauty and wonderful things....with a God or without..... One can only guess what causes humans to fight and fall out.
It`s too small to be a brain Capt. I can barely see it through the electron microscope...... It is however sending of life force readings.. Albeit that of pond scum..... It is alive Capt.
: )
Harvey Crichton wrote (March 22, 2005):
Money has got nothing to do with God in that way really... I don`t think we can refer to indulgences and corruptions in the Catholic Church as standard practise.Most CHURCHES i KNOW PEOPLE PUT IN A IT OF MONEY TO KEEP FACILITIES GOING AND A COLLECTION... A FEW DO TITHES. ( Mormons ) and they are all loaded aren`t they.
I hardly think religion is designed to take money from people???
I don`t think God is into money...and if you are that cynical about relgion and man itself than you will have to see New Age is about signing people up to websites to egt their horoscopes done for $20 and to sell books.... Is all a consumerist nightmare ??? That is your line of reasoning..I don`t think either are motivated by either really. Certainly NOT in England.
People like to give their money to causes though and might prefer buying a book marker from my local Cathedral rathert han a similiar one from elsewhere. I believe they sell alot of bookmarkers at my Local Cathedral.I am glad they do as the building is magnifiicient and the singing in their of the servcies dailiy is magnificient!! And all for free!!!
I have a prejudice againt non religious people where 10 years ago I would have had the prejudice with the Chrsitians for being narrow and hypocritial ..
In business.I KNOW where I am with a Christian and a female and it it is alot easir.They give their word and mean it and they don`t steal and do the dirty over you.
THAT is bonus points for me. Atheism is no longer as impressive as I found it to be, with is reductionjism in science and niholism and existentialism and Biocemical evolution...
I don`t go along with Bible either.Anyone reading Numbers recently should kind of recap that it doesn`t make sense.
You`ll NOTE England mAKES MORE SENSE THAN THE OTHIF YOU THINK ABOUT IT.
But that all kind of depends...
At least UK is consistent with around 1 in 4 believers and the results on evolution..... etc...
I think GOD is beyond all of this and beyonf language and beyond all of us and beyond any dogma and any Church and any new age movement that thinks it has the right answers.
JSB [BCML]
Aryeh Oron wrote (March 21, 2005):
If I am not mistaken today is the 320 birthday of a composer, whose initials appear above.
I remember reading in year 2000 that one does not need a special cause to celebrate JSB. Every day we listen to (the luckiest of us also perform) JSB's music is a good day.
I would like to use this opportunity to thank Neil Halliday for leading the cantata discussions during the first 10 weeks of 2005. Thomas Shepherd took the lead for the next 10 weeks. The leading of the discussions is covered until the week of July 9, 2006. Any member interested to lead the discussions for a cetain period of time (5/10 weeks), is invited to write to me off-list.
Greetings on J.S. Bach's 320th birthday/anniversary.... [Mizler Society]
Canadian Bucko wrote (March 21, 2005):
Of course, our hero, "old Bach" as Frederich the Great referred to him, was born on March 21st, 1985, so it's appropriate to commemorate the occasion in some way today. As for yours truly, Canadianbucko (CB), he purchased in Seoul yesterday a Naxos recording of the St. Matthew Passion (BWV 244). It seemed like a reasonable option, especially as this is now Holy Week. No doubt performances of the Bach Passion accounts will be proliferating in the next week, and rightly so....
A Happy Belated Birthday to JSB
Santu de Silva wrote (March 22, 2006):
Yesterday was the birthday of Johann Sebastian Bach, according to the Julian Calendar. Am I right?
Bradley Lehman wrote (March 22, 2006):
[To Santu de Silva]
According to modern dates (Gregorian calendar) Bach's birthday was yesterday. But, according to position in orbit around the sun, the correct date will be next Friday, March 31st. There was the adjustment of 10 days during Bach's youth, switching from Julian to Gregorian.
The Gregorian (our current) and Julian calendars are now off from one another by more than 10 days (making the Julian March 21st for Bach's birthday also "wrong" by modern standards), but that's fairly irrelevant now since the Julian is disused. It will just keep diverging.
Some earlier discussion: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Topics/Life-2.htm
Thomas Braatz wrote (March 23, 2006):
Bradley Lehman wrote:
>>Yesterday was the birthday of Johann Sebastian Bach, according to the Julian Calendar. Am I right?<<
>>According to modern dates (Gregorian calendar) Bach's birthday was yesterday. But, according to position in orbit around the sun, the correct date will be next Friday, March 31st. There was the adjustment of 10 days during Bach's youth, switching from Julian to Gregorian.<<
Looking at Bach's birthday as March 31 is important from another standpoint as explained below:
Johann Sebastian Bach - March 21, 1685 (OS assumed - (Old Style - Julian), Eisenach, Germany March 31, 1685 (NS - New Style-Gregorian), Eisenach, Germany Latitude 50N59, Longitude 10E19.
Knowing the exact time of birth and its location on the earth, astrologers, for many centuries, have been consulted to delineate the characteristics and the so-called fortune connected with this unique set of circumstances surrounding the birth of individuals as determined by the position(s) of the planets (including the moon and sun) and the earth on its axis as well.
Of course, no one will ever really know what time of day Bach was born, but this does not keep astrologers from trying to determine what might have been the correct date and time of Bach's birth.
The data sources, as they stand now, are conflicting and unverified. An assumption has to be made regarding the number of days intervening between the actual birth and the official registration of baptism. Facsimiles/pictures of the baptismal entry on March 23, 1685, a baptism which took place in St. George's Church in Eisenach, abound in many Bach biographies. The date of birth, given in a direct copy of Bach's own original document containing the genealogy of the Bach family (1735) has the actual birth date as March 21, 1685 (even after the change from OS to NS had taken place!), but then researchers have discovered that Bach erred by a half year when he stated that he became the organist at the New Church in Arnstadt in 1704 (the actual date given in the church records is August 9, 1703).
The time of birth remains undetermined (and will probably forever remain so).
By applying the commonly used method of rectification (the dates of significant events in Bach's life are used to reconstruct the original time), the following speculative times have been proposed and have appeared in print:
Ruth Dewey, in "450 Themes de Musicians", speculates that the birth took place at 5:45 am LMT (Local Mean Time at the moment of sunrise) on Saturday, March 31, 1685
Eschelman speculates 10:58 am
Kraum, in "American Astrology" (Feb. 1963), posited the time as 12:14 pm
Genuit, in "Astrology Quarterly (Winter, 1964) gives the speculative time as 2:00 pm (taken originally from "Der Astrologische Auskunftsbogen"
Astrologers, who are not necessarily musicians, are nevertheless very interested in such a phenomenon as Bach, just as they continue to investigate the circumstances surrounding other great (famous and infamous) human beings, Da Vinci, Beethoven, famous kings and rulers, etc. What seems to interest astrologers most about Bach?
1. Bach was born into an extended family of important musicians and composers where the majority of men achieved some degree of fame in this area
2. Bach was prolific not only in producing music but he also had 20 children, 4 of these also became famous as musicians
3. Bach's music, centuries after his death, continues to astound listeners with its profundity, but also its abilities to continue to give pleasure even after hearing it repeatedly.
I have decided to share just a few of the astrological 'readings' that pertain to the J. S. Bach who apparently was born on March 31, 1685 (NS) but whose birth time remains entirely speculative. None of the 'readings' below are based on the birth time, a common basis for ascertaining more personal indications. They simply reflect a cosmological 'picture' for anyone born on that date. For this purpose only the positions and angular placements of the planets (including sun and moon) are taken into account. [These 'readings'/interpretations are from reference books which have not taken Bach's life and fame into account (the authors are unaware that the description might include or refer to Bach.)]
For those readers who might already be offended by what is being presented here, let them cease from reading on. My purpose here is not encourage certain beliefs or customs considered to be superstition by some or heresy by others (nor do I wish to provoke a controversy that might lead away from the subject of Bach and his music), but simply to provide some information, as tentative and speculative as it may be, about yet another dimension that might be revealed about what Bach might have been experiencing as he struggled to produce great music in the face of some great difficulties.
Some planetary positions:
Mercury in Pisces (this general position is in effect for about a month each year)
"You are more of a poet than a rational scientist, for your mind does not function in a strictly logical, linear fashion. The language of music, art, or poetry is natural to you, and you are also able to think in highly abstract and symbolic terms. Translating your thoughts and impressions into concrete, everyday language may be difficult for you at times and consequently you may appear less intelligent or at least less quick-witted and verbal than others. This was especially true you as a child, and you probably daydreamed a good deal also. You are intuitive and are able to sense what others' thoughts and feelings are, even before they say anything to you. You often form an opinion about a person or situation without much factual knowledge of them, and your impressions are usually correct. You can be somewhat absent-minded and you become so immersed in your own thoughts that you overlook things in your immediate, tangible environment. You are extremely open-minded and believe that anything is possible. Intangible or spiritual forces seem just as real to you as anything in the concrete world. Your imagination and your sympathetic understanding of other people are two of your greatest gifts."
Saturn in Virgo (this general position pertains to a 2 ?year duration every 30 years)
"You have a penchant for order and precision, and an almost compulsive attention to detail. You are often
hypercritical and can be such a demanding perfectionist that you discourage yourself or others from even attempting something that won't be done exactly the way you know it should be done.
You frequently over analyze or pick things apart mentally. You may be something of a hypochondriac also. You must learn that you do not have to rationally understand everything in order for it to be valid, and also to relax your unnecessarily high or strict standards."
Neptune in Pisces
"You are part of a 14 year group of people that are very intuitive, receptive, and imaginative. The arts and music are very important to your age group, and they flourish with your support, talent, and contributions. There is a rich and varied abundance of artistic and musical productivity from your age group."
Some planetary aspects (angular distances between the planets):
Moon conjunct (the planets 'stand together') Neptune (only in effect for a day or so of each lunar month)
"You are extremely psychic and very sensitive to your environment and your associates. This sensitivity may be frightening when it stays in the land of day dreams and a real asset when it is harnessed to the immediate and relevant circumstances in your daily life. The speed of this integration governs the rate of emotional integration and normalcy of living you experienced in childhood. You have a tendency to retreat into fantasy and daydreaming. If your imagination is harnessed and reinforced as a child, art, music, dance and all cultural pursuits become an open book for you. The arts can become your escape and a constructive and shareable part of your inner life. You have an uncanny knack for what is happening around you because you are "tuned in" to the larger world. If you have courage and discipline, you may well have a very positive effect on the whole world. Vivid imagination is indicated and, if correctly used, can enhance musical and artistic ability. This conjunction can give religious and spiritual tendencies."
Mercury conjunct Venus (this angular placement is generally in effect for only a few days in the entire year)
"You appreciate aesthetics and have a fine sense of form, design, and beauty. You could develop considerable technical skill as an artist, designer, craftsman, or creative writer. You could also sell objects of beauty - artistic products, cosmetics, jewelry, etc."
Mercury Trine (120 degrees apart from) Pluto (in effect for only a few days of the year; not in effect, for example, on March 21, 1685 (NS - 10 days earlier)
"This trine indicates the kind of mind that is capable of understanding reality in terms of the interplay of energy-that is, understanding the causes of outer manifestations (the ability needed by an atomic physicist to understand and comprehend atomic structures). Deep involvement in such areas will occur in only a few cases (of those individuals who have this aspect), since many other factors must bear it out. Often this influence is too subtle for the average person to understand or use to its fullest potential. In ordinary humanity this aspect would merely indicate an ability to get at the root of things."
Venus Opposition (180 degrees from) Saturn (in effect for only a few days of the year)
"Saturn frustrates the natural tendencies of Venus toward joy, beauty, and happiness. The individual may be made cold because of continual deprivations and heavy responsibilities. The individual may have jobs they do not enjoy or which do not pay well. Their employers may be miserly and selfish. This opposition can also make it difficult to relate to the public at large and does not favor popularity because the individual always appears to be so reserved."
Fumitaka Sato wrote (March 23, 2006):
[To Santu de Silva] I hate to dispute about calendars here, but I must say that March 21 (Bach's birthday) on Julian Calendar corresponds to April 3 on Gregorian Calendar this year.
Thomas Braatz wrote (March 23, 2006):
[To Fumitaka Sato] I think the difference might be explained this way (please bear with me):
An astronomer in Eisenach, Germany looking at the local calendar would have seen the date: March 21, 1685 and locating on that same day the position of the sun in degrees of longitude from the zero point Aries (beginning of Spring in the northern latitudes) would have found the sun at + 11 degrees from the Aries point (or simply 11 degrees Aries). He would have realized that this was not the ideal location for the first day of spring because the calendar kept adding to this error every year. During Bach's lifetime, the correction in the calendar was undertaken in a rather piecemeal fashion in various principalities which Bach visited or in which he lived. Russia, for instance, finally made the change from Julian to Gregorian much later (end of the 19th or even the beginning of the 20th century, I am just guessing at this fact without looking it up). In Bach's lifetime, he suddenly lost 10 days, but the Russians, in order to make the correction from the old to the new lost something like 2 weeks, (again just an approximate guess). But once the change was made, then the amount of divergence between dates recorded in one style (OS) and recalculated in the new style (NS) stopped and remained constant relative to each other. Had Bach wanted to, he could have had an astronomer tell him, that on the birth date (March 21) which Bach remembered from the 'good old days' before the calendar change, the sun was not at the vernal equinox (+1 degree Aries) but rather at 11 degrees Aries because of the built-in deficiencies of the Julian calendar. In order to place the sun correctly (actually the earth in its orbit around the sun) so that it would be at almost the very same spot where it was when Bach was born, he would have to wait until March 31 NS (for instance in 1735 when his family's genealogy was being discussed and copied) in order to celebrate his normal birthday (according to the heavens and not according to imperfect man-made calculations). Bach's real birthday occurs when essentially the same point of the sun in the sky (or earth in its orbit, depending on how you look at it) [circa 11 degrees of Aries or from the 0 Aries point) is reached each year. For us, in celebrating our birthdays, it is easy to rely on a specific calendar date because we had no changes in the calendar to contend with. For Bach or anyone to celebrate April 3, 2006 as somehow related to his birthday, one would have to state: If Bach were born on April 3, 2006 according to the Old Style calendar, his parents would see this date on the calendar, but the astute astronomer would see the position of the sun as if it were the first day of spring, the vernal equinox. Now, as long as the OS would still be in effect, the astronomer, knowing that this birth took place right after the vernal equinox, would nevertheless inform Bach's parents to continue celebrating J.S. Bach's celestial birthday on April 3. But the moment the NS calendar would take effect and 13 days simply vanished, then this responsible astronomer would tell Bach to celebrate his birthday on March 21 because that is when the sun would assume the same position in the sky that it hadwhen Bach was actually born. Each year after that, according to the NS calendar, Bach's birthday would return on March 21 because then the relative earth-sun position re-occurs only once each year.
Summary:
On March 21, 1685 OS, the sun was already at 11 degrees Aries and not at circa 0 to 1 degree Aries (the latter being the vernal equinox which had taken place 10 days earlier according to the OS calendar.
In order to point correctly at the relative positions of earth and sun as they actually occurred in the sky and not according to a misbegotten calendar on the day of Bach's birth, it is necessary to make the one-time adjustment that took place during Bach's lifetime. Bach forgot to make this adjustment to his birthday, hence, he would continue to celebrate his birthday for most of his life on a day of the year which did not correspond celestially to represent the same position of the sun in the sky as seen against the backdrop of the Zodiac. Had Bach done this correctly back then, he too would have celebrated his birthday on March 31 just as we today should celebrate it on March 31 and not April 3, if we are trying to attune ourselves the movement of the sun as seen from the earth.
Fumitaka Sato wrote (March 23, 2006):
Thomas Braatz wrote:
< An astronomer in Eisenach, Germany looking at the local calendar would have seen the date: March 21, 1685 and locating on that same day the position of the sun in degrees of longitude from the zero point Aries (beginning of Spring in the northern latitudes) would have found the sun at + 11 degrees from the Aries point (or simply 11 degrees Aries). .. > My calculation based on the book
"Calendrical Calculations The Millennium Edition" by Edward M. Reingold and Nachum Dershowitz, Cambridge U.P.; 2 edition (2001),
shows that Vernal Equinox in the year 1685 was on the day March 19 (Gregorian Calendar), which is March 9 (Julian Calendar), 12 days before the day of the birth of J.S.Bach.
Well, make it simple like this:
i) The day of birth of J.S.Bach is March 21 on Julian Calendar, which was adopted in Eisenach those days,
ii) but that date was March 31 on Gregorian Calendar, which had been adopted in the Roman Catholic Church in 1582, and
iii) this year, March 21 on Julian calendar corresponds to April 3 on Gregorian Calendar.
There can be three ways to celebrate Bach's birthday on Gregorian Calendar.
a) March 21 (on Gregorian Calendar);
b) March 31 (on Gregorian Calendar);
c) April 3 (on Gregorian Calendar).
I do not know which is the most appropriate date. I can only offer material of the fact of the calendars.
Thomas Braatz wrote (March 23, 2006):
Fumitaka Sato wrote:
>>My calculation based on the book "Calendrical Calculations The Millennium Edition" by Edward M. Reingold and Nachum Dershowitz, Cambridge U.P.; 2 edition (2001), shows that Vernal Equinox in the year 1685 was on the day March 19 (Gregorian Calendar), which is March 9 (Julian Calendar), 12 days before the day of the birth of J.S.Bach.<<
Now you first have to choose between the calendars to determine the actual date of the Vernal Equinox:
1. on March 9, 1685 NS the Sun left Pisces and was at 0 degrees Aries (NS), but this did not correspond with the celestial reality that the Sun according to the adjustment necessary for NS was still at circa 20 degrees of Pisces under the OS at that time (using the calendar in effect on Bach's birth date)
2. during the night from March 19 to 20, 1685 NS the Sun reached, as one would now normally expect, 0 degrees Aries thus indicating the official beginning of Spring NS (but not according to the calendar used by the Bach family who still believed that the beginning of Spring was still theoretically 10 days away in the future). When Bach's birth took place a day or two later, after the Vernal Equinox OS, the Sun, they thought, would be at about 1 degree of Aries; however, a reliable astronomer would have informed them that it (the Sun) had already reached a position of 11 degrees Aries. The latter position is based upon the fact that March 21, 1685 OS = March 31, 1685 NS.
3. in order to celebrate his birthday properly (the way that a majority of human beings use to ascertain their birthday) according to the yearly realignment of Sun-Earth position against the backdrop of the Zodiac (astronomers here prefer to speak only of calculations made from the 0 Aries point), Bach would have needed to realize that in order to be in harmony with the Sun's position at 11 degrees in Aries once each year for his birthday, he (and all others who would wish to celebrate his birthday properly in the future) would need to wait each year until March 31. Just as the exact time of the arrival of Spring varies from year to year by a matter of hours due to leap-year calculations, likewise the precise moment when the Sun reaches 11 degrees of Aries does not remain entirely fixed or constant. Generally, however, March 31 will come the closest to providing what we call a birthday: when the Sun returns to the spot where it was when we were born.
Santu de Silva wrote (March 23, 2006):
At the risk of contributing to a protracted controversy, let me make the following observations. (This is particularly interesting to me this semester, since one of my students if preparing a presentation about the mathematics of leap years, and both of us know only a little, but we will shortly know a lot more--at least we continue to hope so.) At the very worst, we can simply look up the facts, without trying to understand any of it.
(1) the reason the Julian Calendar, and all earlier calendars, were abandoned is that they do not keep synchronized with the seasons. Satofumi4's comment below is particularly apropos, since the whole idea --at least to me-- is to celebrate Bach's birthday at the time of year when he was born; 12 days before the equinox tells us almost all we want to know, since we can now formulate a calendar-independent date for Bach's birthday:
Fumitaka Sato wrote:
<<< My calculation based on the book "Calendrical Calculations The Millennium Edition" by Edward M. Reingold and Nachum Dershowitz, Cambridge U.P.; 2 edition (2001), shows that Vernal Equinox in the year 1685 was on the day March 19 (Gregorian Calendar), which is March 9 (Julian Calendar), 12 days before the day of the birth of J.S.Bach. >>>
(2) For the reasons given above, using the Julian calendar today, and using the Gregorian date for March 21, 2006[Julian] makes absolutely no sense; the two calendars continue to diverge, worse every year. It is a charming thought that if Bach's family had continued to remain ignorant of the new calendric thinking, they would celebrate Great-Uncle Sebastian's birthday in April, or whatever, but it does not make much sense. {A few millennia from now, March 21, xxxx [Julian] will be in the middle of winter, not anywhere near the time of year --Spring-- when the gentleman was actually born.} So:
< iii) this year, March 21 on Julian calendar corresponds to April 3 on Gregorian Calendar. [One possible day to celebrate is:] c) April 3 (on Gregorian Calendar). > makes no sense. Not a lot, anyway :)
A good choice is:
< i) The day of birth of J.S.Bach is March 21 on Julian Calendar, which was adopted in Eisenach those days, ii) but that date was March 31 on Gregorian Calendar, which had been adopted in the Roman Catholic Church in 1582, [Therefore, celebrate the birthday on:] b) March 31 (on Gregorian Calendar). > which is okay.
(3) But the best choice is given by:
< Vernal Equinox in the year 1685 was on the day March 19 (Gregorian Calendar), which is [was?] March 9 (Julian Calendar), 12 days before the day of the birth of J.S.Bach. > So, celebrate the birthday of J.S.Bach 12 days after the Vernal Equinox each year, which will be a better choice than to select a particular date, since the Gregorian calendar may be proved to be 'defective' some day. (It has; this year there was a leap second, as everyone knows, to compensate. Still, we have every expectation that the Gregorian Calendar will be maintained isynchronization with the seasons with appropriate corrections.) This is provided Fumitak Sato's information and calculations were accurate and reliable, which is a fact that is easy to establish one way or the other. My thanks to this list member for helping to settle the issue at least to my satisfaction!
P.S. I have asked a colleague in the Astronomy/Physics department at the school in which I teach to look up the Julian date of the vernal equinox in the year 1685. His sources are at his home, and he well tell me the date tomorrow. [I have every confidence that Satofumi's date will be corroborated.] As Tom Braatz points out, this date may or may not be the actual date of JSB's birth, but will certainly be close, and perhaps we can agree to celebrate this date.
Bradley Lehman wrote (March 23, 2006):
< At the risk of contributing to a protracted controversy, let me make the following observations. (This is particularly interesting to me this semester, since one of my students if preparing a presentation about the mathematics of leap years, and both of us know only a little, but we will shortly know a lot more--at least we continue to hope so.) At the very worst, we can simply look up the facts, without trying to understand any of it. > Here are several books that I especially like, on such issues as the calendar:
"Calendar" by Duncan: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0380793245
"Time: The Ultimate Energy" by Hope: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1852302372
"A Sideways Look at Time" by Griffiths: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1585423068
"Faster" by Gleick: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/067977548X
And a musical one, on issues especially important to harpsichordists (since timing is a primary means of expression, and of musical clarity). "Stolen Time: The History of Tempo Rubato" by Hudson: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0198161697
Now, those who automatically gainsay everything that I post here will surely find some way to contradict my opinion. Or, to point out in public how I should have written it better. Or, to castigate me for not going ahead and typing whole chapters from the aforementioned books, instead of recommending the books.
Thomas Braatz wrote (March 23, 2006):
Santu de Silva wrote:
>>...the whole idea --at least to me-- is to celebrate Bach's birthday at the time of year when he was born.<<
March 21, 1685 OS = March 31, 1685 NS (an established fact, once the conversion is accurately made) with the Sun on Bach's birthday located at approximately 11 degrees into Aries past the Vernal Equinox at 0 degrees Aries which had taken place between 11:50 pm LMT Eisenach on March 19, 1685 NS and 12:05 am LMT Eisenach on March 20, 1685 (NS) when the OS calendar was still displaying March 10,1685 OS on the wall in Eisenach, but the Sun was actually located at 20 degrees of Pisces with ten days to go before the actual Vernal Equinox.
Pretend that you are looking at the calendar on the wall in the house where Bach was born the same day in Eisenach, Germany. The following facts pertain:
1. The calendar shows March 21, 1685. This calendar is off by 10 days. The position of the Sun and Earth relative to each other would show that on this date the Vernal Equinox had not yet taken place for this particular year. The calendar on the wall was 'ahead of itself' by 10 days. The mistakes in calculating the beginning of Spring had accrued over many centuries until reaching this degree of divergence from the reality that the Vernal Equinox should occur around March 20/21 of each year. The divergence/discrepancy now amounted to 10 days with the proof being given in the sky by locating the Sun against the backdrop of the band of stars known as the Zodiac. An astronomer in Eisenach on March 20/21 of 1685 would have looked up into the sky and discovered that the Sun's location was at 20 degrees of Pisces rather than 0 degrees of Aries, which would have been expected by a more accurate calendar.
2. Had the calendar correction been made on the day of Bach's birth (it took about a decade or two for this to occur officially in the regions where Bach lived and worked), the results would have been the same as they would be even for us today: Ten days had to be subtracted from the calendar (they simply disappeared), in other words, the Bach family had to play 'catch-up' to attune themselves with the reality dictated by the movement of the earth in its orbit around the sun and the measurements of the Sun's position as seen from the earth. Suddenly (or on the specific date that the principalities in which Bach lived imposed the new calendar), March 21, 1685 OS would become March 31, 1685 NS and it has remained this way until today, notwithstanding the tiny adjustments/fluctuations that have to be made by astronomers to fit the 4-year leap-year into our calendar scheme. Now Bach's new, astronomically much more correct, birth date was and continues to remain 'in tune' with the celestial motions that surround us. The position of his Sun, as corrected by the NS calendar, was and remains essentially at 11 degrees of Aries. This is what a birthday entails: the day on which the Sun once again reaches the same position in the sky that it had when the birth occurred. This is what happens every year on March 31 for Bach whose birth occurred when the Sun was at 11 degrees of Aries (not April 3 when the Sun is at 14 degrees Aries and not March 21, a date which does not account for the loss of 10 days due to a significant calendar change and a date on which the Sun was still at 20 degrees of Pisces).
Summary:
March 31 is the only reasonably correct day on which to celebrate Bach's birthday. The Sun's position on Bach's birthday in 1685 (although the local Old Style calendars indicated that the date was March 21) was really at 11 degrees of Aries, the same position which is repeated each year under the New Style calendar on March 31.
Fumitaka Sato wrote (March 24, 2006):
Santu de Silva wrote:
< So, celebrate the birthday of J.S.Bach 12 days after the Vernal Equinox each year, which will be a better choice than to select a particular date, since the Gregorian calendar may be proved to be 'defective' some day. (It has; this year there was a leap second, as everyone knows, to compensate. Still, we have every expectation that the Gregorian Calendar will be maintained in synchronization with the seasons with appropriate corrections.) > SANTU DESILVA has proposed a good idea: Calculating the difference between the date of the Vernal Equinox and the date of the birth of J.S.Bach in 1685. Then celebrate his birthday by determining the date which has exact difference from the Vernal Equinox every year.
This may be fine, but the difficulty lies in determining the exact hour (minute, second) birth in the day March 21, 1865 (Julian Calendar).
By the way, my calculation of the Vernal equinox in 1685 was based on the selection of the timezone of UTC ("Greenwich Mean Time"), and the hour in the CET must be advanced by 1 hour..
Vernal Equinox: Solar Longitude..0.0
19th 3, 1684 18h (Greenwich Mean Time)
Vernal Equinox: Solar Longitude..0.0
19th 3, 1685 23h (Greenwich Mean Time) .. THIS IS THE YEAR!
Vernal Equinox: Solar Longitude..0.0
20th 3, 1686 05h (Greenwich Mean Time)
These dates are all on Gregorian Calendar and in the UTC timezone.
Bradley Lehman wrote (March 24, 2006):
Thomas Braatz wrote:
< (...) Summary:
March 31 is the only reasonably correct day on which to celebrate Bach's birthday. The Sun's position on Bach's birthday in 1685 (although the local Old Style calendars indicated that the date was March 21) was really at 11 degrees of Aries, the same position which is repeated each under the New Style calendar on March 31. > The astounding thing, to me, is that (for once) Mr Braatz has agreed with my analysis of data, on a Bach topic! I wrote: http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/BachRecordings/message/16968 And apparently, I've presented information that, to him, is agreed as the "only reasonably correct" conclusion. That concurrence is surely as rare as any astronomical phenomenon: that not a single nit has been picked against my posting, but rather four resounding several affirmations!
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/BachRecordings/message/16972 http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/BachRecordings/message/16975 http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/BachRecordings/message/16982 http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/BachRecordings/message/16987
I see that the next "blue moon" will not occur until June 30, 2007.
http://www.infoplease.com/spot/bluemoon1.html http://www.obliquity.com/astro/bluemoon.html But, since the assignment of month names and lengths is basically an arbitrary human thing (due to a bunch of cultural traditions and political battles and whatnot), I don't see that such an event has any cosmic significance. The moon and planets don't care what a "month" is.
Put the years 1650 and 1700 into the calculator at: http://www.obliquity.com/cgi-bin/bluemoon.cgi See, if Bach would have been born exactly one year earlier than he was (i.e. 1684 instead of 1685) but on the same day (March 31 on our current calendar, and in this calculator), that night had a blue moon. But Bach missed that one; he had to wait until he was 19 months old until one occurred. Oh well, it was fun to look it up, on the hunch that maybe Bach was born under a blue moon. Guess not.
Thomas Braatz wrote (March 24, 2006):
Fumitaka Sato wrote:
>>This may be fine, but the difficulty lies in determining the exact hour (minute, second) birth in the day March 21, 1685 (Julian Calendar).<<
As pointed out previously, there is no hope that such information will ever be recovered. All that remains is reasonable speculation using rectification methods already alluded to and these can never be entirely definitive.
>>By the way, my calculation of the Vernal equinox in 1685 was based on the selection of the timezone of UTC ("Greenwich Mean Time"), and the hour in the CET must be advanced by 1 hour... Vernal Equinox: Solar Longitude..0.0 19th 3, 1685 23h (Greenwich Mean Time) .. THIS IS THE YEAR!<<
Your calculations agree with mine except that 23 h should be much closer to midnight between March 19/20. Here is what I stated previously:
>the Vernal Equinox at 0 degrees Aries which had taken place between 11:50 pm LMT Eisenach on March 19, 1685 NS and 12:05 am LMT Eisenach on March 20, 1685 (NS) when the OS calendar was still displaying March 10, 1685 OS on the wall in Eisenach, but the Sun was actually located at 20 degrees of Pisces with ten days to go before the actual Vernal Equinox.<
Very important in this consideration is that this Vernal Equinox date is NS and not OS. Consider that the Sun is at 0 degrees Aries point (the precise beginning of Spring in the Northern Hemisphere), but that a day later a son born in the Bach family when the Sun had advanced one degree to 1st degree of Aries. This one degree Aries position is only possible under NS calendar reckoning which has been used up to this point. Now it is absolutely necessary under NS to drop or strike completely from the record 10 days in order to make the correct adjustment to (and away from) the calendar date which the Bachs observed on that famous birth date. Now we are back to the 10th or 11th of March NS when the Vernal Equinox (improperly calculated under OS) and Bach's birth had not yet taken place. In order to make the OS calendar date agree with the NS date, we need to add 10 days to the now fictitious OS calendar date on the wall in Eisenach in 1685 in order to make it agree with the astronomical method of reckoning the correct date and time for the beginning of Spring. Adding these 10 days to March 21,1685 OS, we now obtain the correct date for Bach's birthday: March 31, 1685 and March 31 every year thereafter. Yes, there are minor fluctuations that occur every year due to the attempt to incorporate the problems caused by leap-year. This means that Spring may arrive at different times (hours & minutes) and even extending into an earlier or later day/date than the usual one, but generally it has to be assumed that the variation would not amount to more than part of a day earlier or later than March 31 for Bach's birth or for anyone's birthday an any given date.
April 3 or March 21 as choices for celebrating Bach's birthday are unreasonable as long as we abide by the standard definition of a birthday: A birthday occurs when the Sun comes back to the same position it had when the individual was born. This is usually on the same date of a specific month, but strictly speaking it might sometimes be a day earlier or later. This is comparable to the earth celebrating its birthday at the Vernal Equinox which tends to occur each year within a limited time span surrounding the 20th (sometimes 19th, sometimes 21st) of March each year.
Since the time of day of Bach's birth is unknown, it matters even less just how precisely Bach's birth date
can be defined. But within a fair degree of certainty, Bach's birth took place when the Sun was at 11 to 12
degrees of Aries (measured from the O Aries point defined by the entrance of Spring in March of 1685 in
Eisenach, Germany.)
Fumitaka Sato wrote (March 24, 2006):
Thomas Braatz wrote:
< As pointed out previously, there is no hope that such information will ever be recovered. All that remains is reasonable speculation using rectification methods already alluded to and these can never be entirely definitive. >
According a calculation based on the book which I referred to earlier in my post, the Vernal Equinox (Solar Longitude being 0.0) is shown to have taken place on
19th March, 1685 at 23h 15m in UTC (Greenwich Mean Time),
and hence
20th March, 1685 at 00h 15m in CET,
on Gregorian Calendar ("NS").
This shows that the Vernal Equinox in the year 1685 was around midnight, and the date changes depending on the timezones (GMT/CET). And it also shows that the difference between the date-time of the birth of J.S.Bach and that of the Vernal Equinox cannot determine the Bach's birthday in the later years unless the exact time of the birth of J.S.Bach was determined.
Calendrical caluculations cannot be determined by simple addition-subtraction-multiplication-divisions.
The case is very similar as with that of musical tuning!
Dave Harman wrote (March 24, 2006):
Thomas Braatz wrote:
<< Bach's birthday was yesterday. But, according to position in orbit around the sun, the correct date will be next Friday, March 31st. There was the adjustment of 10 days during Bach's youth, switching from Julian to Gregorian.<<
Thanks to Thomas Braatz for the Astrological rundown on Bach.
As someone who used to work in this field, I would like to add these comments:
As Mr Braatz writes, there is no way to know the time of day Bach was born. Therefore there is a degree is slack in planetary placement and in the angles the planets in the chart bear to each other (knows as aspects).
There are other features of the birth chart that Astrologers look at :
Planetary pattern - there are 7 planetary pattern- each gives a coloration to the reading of the chart
The faster moving planets - Sun, Moon, Mars, Mercury - cannot be precisely placed without a reliable birth time - hence some aspects could be missed
Finally, without a reliable birth time, there is no Ascendant - one of the most important features of a chart - and one which most personalizes a chart. Further, the distribution of the planetary pattern referred to above will not be precise because we don't know how the houses should be placed on the wheel.
It is OK to print paragraphs of the qualities of planets in signs - but we are missing the qualities of planets in houses - (one of the twelve "slices") - another important feature.
Anyway, thanks again for the rundown.
Santu de Silva wrote (March 24, 2006):
I think I'm converging towards an acceptable compromise for a day on which we can celebrate the birthday of Johann Sebastian Bach. As has been mentioned numerous times, because of the unreliable way in which birth records were entered and maintained in the 17th century, there is almost a week's uncertainty of the dat