欧巴马获得民主党总统提名,是个历史性事件,令人鼓舞。
我一开始就是欧巴马支持者。但是和少年歌迷崇拜歌星偶像般的苦瓜不一样,我对欧巴马支持是有保留的。
欧巴马为什么会胜过克林顿?是因为大众感觉她的一个腿是在过去的,多数人并不留恋克林顿王朝。欧巴马是酷先生,年轻,看上去聪敏,有涵养,具有人格吸引力。公众求变,对他的选择,可说是理性的,也可说是非理性的。(这是这样一个场合:人们会问到底什么是理性?)
欧巴马是三人中国事经验最少的,凭经验选,我不会选他。但是也许我们求变心切,我们愿意跳入未知的世界,也不原意走熟路。从这一点上,选举就像赌博。
我一开始就是克林顿的反对者。我的感觉是这个女人不太像女人。我的这个感觉有没有性别歧视?深挖一下,可能难免。这是她的女性支持者愤怒的原因,也是她们支持她到底的原因。克林顿有很多让我们愤怒的地方:她的凶悍,她给人留下的为争得提名不顾一切的感觉。但是反过来,我也感觉到她“是用特殊材料做成的人”,也对她颇有敬意。她是一个名副其实的“斗士”。人们需要领袖有做事不屈不挠的驱力。不容易。欧巴马有几个州甩手放了过去,不少人(包括我)觉得不像话。事实上欧巴马克林顿基本是平手。
克林顿最伤心的是,“既生我,何生他?!”机会错过,年龄不饶人。
我如果打篮球玩,我找欧巴马;如果拔河,我一定找克林顿。
麦坎我是担心他太老了。他如果能坚持他的独立共和党人的一贯作风(我猜想一当总统他是会的),他对我是有吸引力的。
说实在的,这三个候选人,没有我所要的一切。并且在竞选过程中,都有婊子样的许诺。民主确实有这样的毛病:候选人做民意的婊子。但是我认为这比专制下让人民做婊子好多了。
从候选人面临的实际问题如伊拉克,经济来看,三个人没有一个有奇招,也不可能有。所以等着失望吧。
我估计大选欧巴马会赢,但不会大赢。给麦坎翻船的可能性也是有的。我的选票还没决定给谁。
最后民主还是好。这是有了民主你才能感觉到的。也是独裁体制下的酸葡萄们感觉不到的。民主和性爱一样,有时让人失望,但比起其他游戏还是好玩。
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/05/2008
touche wrote:
我一开始就是欧巴马支持者。
我的选票还没决定给谁。
Got 1 question when reviewing this could-be-worst political view. :)
Are you 欧巴马支持者 or not? - nothing to be ashamed of if you are not - but why I got confused ? :) - posted on 06/05/2008
Between Obama and Clinton, this is a no-brainer.
Between Obama and McCain, I tend to give it to Obama. But Obama can end up being disappointing for the dreamers out there. You are all forewarned.
Your judgement has been deteriorated quite noticeably lately. Been to doctors? ;)
lhc wrote:
touche wrote:Got 1 question when reviewing this could-be-worst political view. :)
我一开始就是欧巴马支持者。
我的选票还没决定给谁。
Are you 欧巴马支持者 or not? - nothing to be ashamed of if you are not - but why I got confused ? :) - posted on 06/05/2008
touche wrote:
Between Obama and Clinton, this is a no-brainer.
Between Obama and McCain, I tend to give it to Obama. But Obama can end up disappointing for the dreamers out there. You are all forewarned.
You judgement has been deteriorated quite noticeably lately. Been to doctors? ;)
I hope there is a doctor who can tell you how to bet on the future events - if there is one, be very careful - he may not be a human being - something you'd rather steer away from. :)
Between Obama and Clinton - it's difficult, especially for Chinese Americans.
Between Clinton and McCain - almost impossible to predict the results.
Between Obama and McCain - the whole world knows McCain doesn't have a chance, except the American voters.
I'd bet 100 dallars with anyone here. I foresee with my "trackrecord of accuracy" that Obama will win more than 42 states. - posted on 06/05/2008
令狐与老氓在政治议题上掐架,这线要顶!
lhc wrote:
Between Obama and McCain - the whole world knows McCain doesn't have a chance, except the American voters.
How come the whole world knows how things be decided by those who decide and don't how to decide.. 先帮老氓一把。 :)
I'd bet 100 dallars with anyone here. I foresee with my "trackrecord of accuracy" that Obama will win more than 42 states.
O + C ticket? it is highly possible. - posted on 06/05/2008
Duh, the only ones that matter are American voters.
Get your cash ready by the evening of the general election, I've already figured it in my budget. I'll count my life on it.
lhc wrote:
Between Obama and McCain - the whole world knows McCain doesn't have a chance, except the American voters.
I'd bet 100 dallars with anyone here. I foresee with my "trackrecord of accuracy" that Obama will win more than 42 states. - posted on 06/05/2008
Bet Euros. Who knows how much dollar will drop in the next 5 months?
touche wrote:
Duh, the only ones that matter are American voters.
Get your cash ready by the evening of the general election, I've already figured it in my budget. I'll count my life on it.
lhc wrote:
Between Obama and McCain - the whole world knows McCain doesn't have a chance, except the American voters.
I'd bet 100 dallars with anyone here. I foresee with my "trackrecord of accuracy" that Obama will win more than 42 states. - posted on 06/05/2008
The world didn't think Bush had a chance for a second term...
I would not bet too much on the behavior of American voters.
touche wrote:
Duh, the only ones that matter are American voters.
Get your cash ready by the evening of the general election, I've already figured it in my budget. I'll count my life on it.
lhc wrote:
Between Obama and McCain - the whole world knows McCain doesn't have a chance, except the American voters.
I'd bet 100 dallars with anyone here. I foresee with my "trackrecord of accuracy" that Obama will win more than 42 states. - posted on 06/05/2008
Yes, yes, these days, 8 ye always speaks of my heart :-)
麦坎 agrees Bush 95% times, he needs to go.
And lots of Clinton's supports are angry by Clinton's behavior, they say she hold them as a weapon to against Obama, that will not work :-) maybe there are some outraged white old women are going to old man, but most of them will stand for Obama.
八十一子 wrote:
The world didn't think Bush had a chance for a second term...
I would not bet too much on the behavior of American voters.
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/05/2008
The only thing I felt good about the last election is that many American voters apologized on the Internet to the world for having elected a stupid president, and promised to do better next time around. - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/05/2008
touche wrote:
Get your cash ready by the evening of the general election, I've already figured it in my budget. I'll count my life on it.
I don't bet with anybody who bets his life - we don't expect to take anybody's life. It doesn's sound a decent way of betting :)
Just make it 100 dollars. Obama wins < 42 states, your send a cheque to everybody in this thread; >=42 states, I send a cheque to you. :)
- posted on 06/05/2008
Deal!!!!
lhc wrote:
touche wrote:I don't bet with anybody who bets his life - we don't expect to take anybody's life. It doesn's sound a decent way of betting :)
Get your cash ready by the evening of the general election, I've already figured it in my budget. I'll count my life on it.
Just make it 100 dollars. Obama wins < 42 states, your send a cheque to everybody in this thread; >=42 states, I send a cheque to you. :)
- posted on 06/05/2008
July, you are fast building a reputation of misreading/misquoting others, or your heart and your head actually go in opposite directions. Which is it?
July wrote:
Yes, yes, these days, 8 ye always speaks of my heart :-)
麦坎 agrees Bush 95% times, he needs to go.
And lots of Clinton's supports are angry by Clinton's behavior, they say she hold them as a weapon to against Obama, that will not work :-) maybe there are some outraged white old women are going to old man, but most of them will stand for Obama.
八十一子 wrote:
The world didn't think Bush had a chance for a second term...
I would not bet too much on the behavior of American voters.
- posted on 06/05/2008
我一开始就是克林顿的反对者。我的感觉是这个女人不太像女人。我的这个感觉有没有性别歧视?深挖一下,可能难免。这是她的女性支持者愤怒的原因,也是她们支持她到底的原因。克林顿有很多让我们愤怒的地方:她的凶悍,她给人留下的为争得提名不顾一切的感觉。但是反过来,我也感觉到她“是用特殊材料做成的人”,也对她颇有敬意。她是一个名副其实的“斗士”。人们需要领袖有做事不屈不挠的驱力。不容易。欧巴马有几个州甩手放了过去,不少人(包括我)觉得不像话。事实上欧巴马克林顿基本是平手。
Clinton actually won the popular votes (won the most voters).
I don't think she has much political talents, which is why she married Mr. Clinton and adore him.
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/05/2008
You are so bad. Why can't I find a decent gambler among Chinese? ;)
lhc wrote:
Just make it 100 dollars. Obama wins < 42 states, your send a cheque to everybody in this thread; >=42 states, I send a cheque to you. :)
- posted on 06/05/2008
touche wrote:
You are so bad. Why can't I find a decent gambler among Chinese? ;)
lhc wrote:
Just make it 100 dollars. Obama wins < 42 states, your send a cheque to everybody in this thread; >=42 states, I send a cheque to you. :)
就是的,令胡太不fair了,let's make it a fair bet: if Obama wins < 42 states, touche will send a check to everyone in this thread (now I'm in this thread); if he wins >= 42 states, LHC will send a check to everyone in this thread. :) - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/05/2008
Haha, that is Cinton's math, she doesn't count the caucus states where Obama won all of them.
mcFan wrote:
Clinton actually won the popular votes.
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/05/2008
That's odd. I thought people electing their leader for their own sake, not for other peoples. Are we in export business? ;)
gz wrote:
The only thing I felt good about the last election is that many American voters apologized on the Internet to the world for having elected a stupid president, and promised to do better next time around. - posted on 06/05/2008
Unless Americans learned the Asian collective thinking and take the blame for their leader. ;)
touche wrote:
That's odd. I thought people electing their leader for their own sake, not for other peoples. Are we in export business? ;)
gz wrote:
The only thing I felt good about the last election is that many American voters apologized on the Internet to the world for having elected a stupid president, and promised to do better next time around. - posted on 06/05/2008
This will be my 1st time (and hopefully the last time) to support a Republican
BO is a pretty good motivation speaker. But beyond that, not much:
- no track record,
- connections to the Black racists,
- promise to increase tax,
- promise to nullify/change the NAFTA treaty while secretly met the Canadian government to assure that will not happen
- did not call any meeting for three years as a sub-committee chair in Senate
If that is not enough to scare you, look at his other promises that surely will concern you:
-promise to ban toys from China,
-call to boycott the 2008 Olympics,
-refusal to answer the questions from the American Chinese 20-80 committee, which led to a boycott by Asians in California
On the surface, BO looks like a good candidate completely opposite to G.W. Bush as he is opposed to the IRAQ war. But on a closer look, they are pretty similar as both hold extreme, radical ideology. One wanted to go to IRAQ no matter what it would cost, the other wants to leave IRAQ no matter what it will cost.
- posted on 06/05/2008
候选人在竞选中都说身不由己的活,不能太当码事。重要的是候选人一贯的价值观,这以后一定会冒头决定他或她的决策。
麦坎年轻十年就好了。民主党的宣传机器把他抹黑我看没什么用。其实他是一个几乎民主党的共和党人。所以共和党的保守派从来看他不顺眼。
至于欧巴马,纯粹是个政治赌博。但是在很多关头,赌博是值得的,一个民族有时会把希望当饭,有的时候希望确实能变成饭。
mcFan wrote:
This will be my 1st time (and hopefully the last time) to support a Republican
BO is a pretty good motivation speaker. But beyond that, not much:
- no track record,
- connections to the Black racists,
- promise to increase tax,
- promise to nullify/change the NAFTA treaty while secretly met the Canadian government to assure that will not happen
- did not call any meeting for three years as a sub-committee chair in Senate
If that is not enough to scare you, look at his other promises that surely will concern you:
-promise to ban toys from China,
-call to boycott the 2008 Olympics,
-refusal to answer the questions from the American Chinese 20-80 committee, which led to a boycott by Asians in California
On the surface, BO looks like a good candidate completely opposite to G.W. Bush as he is opposed to the IRAQ war. But on a closer look, they are pretty similar as both hold extreme, radical ideology. One wanted to go to IRAQ no matter what it would cost, the other wants to leave IRAQ no matter what it will cost.
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/05/2008
我是不是老糊涂了,怎么看不懂这一线啊?是不懂数学还是不懂幽默?
令胡先是说:
I'd bet 100 dallars with anyone here. I foresee with my "trackrecord of accuracy" that Obama will win more than 42 states.
后来又说:
Just make it 100 dollars. Obama wins < 42 states, your send a cheque to everybody in this thread; >=42 states, I send a cheque to you. :)
这不是刚好相反吗?
怎么大伙都跟着认同说“成交”了呢?
- posted on 06/05/2008
I concur!!!
I’m in this thread too.
浮生 wrote:
touche wrote:就是的,令胡太不fair了,let's make it a fair bet: if Obama wins < 42 states, touche will send a check to everyone in this thread (now I'm in this thread); if he wins >= 42 states, LHC will send a check to everyone in this thread. :)
You are so bad. Why can't I find a decent gambler among Chinese? ;)
lhc wrote:
Just make it 100 dollars. Obama wins < 42 states, your send a cheque to everybody in this thread; >=42 states, I send a cheque to you. :) - posted on 06/05/2008
这就是令糊啊,不令你糊涂怎么叫令糊呢?他知道他原来的赌法准输。
zxd wrote:
我是不是老糊涂了,怎么看不懂这一线啊?是不懂数学还是不懂幽默?
令胡先是说:
I'd bet 100 dallars with anyone here. I foresee with my "trackrecord of accuracy" that Obama will win more than 42 states.
后来又说:
Just make it 100 dollars. Obama wins < 42 states, your send a cheque to everybody in this thread; >=42 states, I send a cheque to you. :)
这不是刚好相反吗?
怎么大伙都跟着认同说“成交”了呢?
- posted on 06/05/2008
你们这两个家伙?!想让他们俩之一破产啊。
二位输了没关系,不用给钱,换个马甲就可以了,玛雅咖啡就是这点好处。 ;-)
Reader86 wrote:
I concur!!!
I’m in this thread too.
浮生 wrote:
touche wrote:就是的,令胡太不fair了,let's make it a fair bet: if Obama wins < 42 states, touche will send a check to everyone in this thread (now I'm in this thread); if he wins >= 42 states, LHC will send a check to everyone in this thread. :)
You are so bad. Why can't I find a decent gambler among Chinese? ;)
lhc wrote:
Just make it 100 dollars. Obama wins < 42 states, your send a cheque to everybody in this thread; >=42 states, I send a cheque to you. :) - posted on 06/05/2008
you are indeed 老糊涂了! :-) Don't ask and don't tell, just collect the money. :-)
zxd wrote:
我是不是老糊涂了,怎么看不懂这一线啊?是不懂数学还是不懂幽默?
令胡先是说:
I'd bet 100 dallars with anyone here. I foresee with my "trackrecord of accuracy" that Obama will win more than 42 states.
后来又说:
Just make it 100 dollars. Obama wins < 42 states, your send a cheque to everybody in this thread; >=42 states, I send a cheque to you. :)
这不是刚好相反吗?
怎么大伙都跟着认同说“成交”了呢?
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/05/2008
If that $100 bothers you, we can count you out. ;-)
LM wrote:
你们这两个家伙?!想让他们俩之一破产啊。
二位输了没关系,不用给钱,换个马甲就可以了,玛雅咖啡就是这点好处。 ;-)
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/05/2008
touche wrote:
候选人在竞选中都说身不由己的活,不能太当码事。重要的是候选人一贯的价值观,这以后一定会冒头决定他或她的决策。
麦坎年轻十年就好了。民主党的宣传机器把他抹黑我看没什么用。其实他是一个几乎民主党的共和党人。所以共和党的保守派从来看他不顺眼。
至于欧巴马,纯粹是个政治赌博。但是在很多关头,赌博是值得的,一个民族有时会把希望当饭,有的时候希望确实能变成饭。
It seems that even you are not sure of BO.
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/05/2008
LM wrote:
你们这两个家伙?!想让他们俩之一破产啊。
二位输了没关系,不用给钱,换个马甲就可以了,玛雅咖啡就是这点好处。 ;-)
LM你不想让他们破产,你加入到这个线里干什么?:)我这是第二次在这条线了,算不算两次,还是得换个马甲再来?
嘻嘻,zxd果然学究啊,要是按我的赌法,他们相正相反都无所谓拉,反正你是collect check的:) - posted on 06/05/2008
zxd wrote:
我是不是老糊涂了,怎么看不懂这一线啊?是不懂数学还是不懂幽默?
令胡先是说:
I'd bet 100 dallars with anyone here. I foresee with my "trackrecord of accuracy" that Obama will win more than 42 states.
后来又说:
Just make it 100 dollars. Obama wins < 42 states, your send a cheque to everybody in this thread; >=42 states, I send a cheque to you. :)
这不是刚好相反吗?
怎么大伙都跟着认同说“成交”了呢?
唉.把我给笑坏了。
这确实是我忙中出错,给敲错了。并不是故意打马虎眼。大家一贯相信我很少出错,所以也没有核查,没想到还是让朱兄给发现了。:) - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/05/2008
关于欧巴马,有一点可肯定:做为一个黑白混血儿,一个曾在印尼和夏威夷长大的孩子,他对其他民族的敏感性,同情心和理解肯定是较强的。而美国总统主要的活是国际事务。
mcFan wrote:
It seems that even you are not sure of BO.
- posted on 06/05/2008
No, Not this time, I know exactly what 8 ye is talking about, I just want to use his word to say what I want to say :-)
Hillary is 8 ye's girl and he said if Obama wins he will vote for old man :-) like those outraged white, older women :-)
touche wrote:
July, you are fast building a reputation of misreading/misquoting others, or your heart and your head actually go in opposite directions. Which is it?
July wrote:
Yes, yes, these days, 8 ye always speaks of my heart :-)
麦坎 agrees Bush 95% times, he needs to go.
And lots of Clinton's supports are angry by Clinton's behavior, they say she hold them as a weapon to against Obama, that will not work :-) maybe there are some outraged white old women are going to old man, but most of them will stand for Obama.
八十一子 wrote:
The world didn't think Bush had a chance for a second term...
I would not bet too much on the behavior of American voters.
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/05/2008
浮生 wrote:
LM wrote:
你们这两个家伙?!想让他们俩之一破产啊。
二位输了没关系,不用给钱,换个马甲就可以了,玛雅咖啡就是这点好处。 ;-)
嘻嘻,zxd果然学究啊,要是按我的赌法,他们相正相反都无所谓拉,反正你是collect check的:)
哈哈。浮生不工作了,倒也不见忧愁操心。难道没有贷款悬在头顶吗?现在如何了? - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/05/2008
Hahaha, all i want is you guys have good time here, who cares 欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎 :-) - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/05/2008
令胡冲 wrote:
哈哈。浮生不工作了,倒也不见忧愁操心。难道没有贷款悬在头顶吗?现在如何了?
现在还在上班呢,还有三个星期呢,但不用干活,无聊的很,没见我尽跟这灌水么:)我是无产阶级,你见到无产阶级忧愁操心的么?Now, either you or touche owes me 300, better not ask me any more questions :) - posted on 06/05/2008
与麦饭交流,欢迎其他大侠拍砖。
自古英雄出少年,当最高领导主要靠特殊品性,经验不重要。除了连任的,谁有当总统的经验?
与某群体关系密切,不一定就是只为了该群体的利益。在美国,种族歧视虽然有很大改善,但离实质的种族平等发展还很有距离。整体而言,黑人收入低,教育水平低,犯罪率高。在这样的客观环境中,Black racists的出现是正常的。BO与他们有联系,了解同情他们,为他们争取利益,这对美国的和谐发展是有好处的。Black racists不是好的东西,但它反映出的社会问题是客观存在的,是需要政府着力解决的。
加税可以增加政府收入,改善政府收支平衡,改善美元因财政赤字而贬值的压力。可靠,信誉良好,道德高尚的美元为美国带来了巨大的经济利益。目前美元不断贬值,正侵蚀它的良好品质,这对美国很不利,美国急需加税减少财政赤子稳定美元。
这表明BO 打算实施选择性的贸易保护政策。经济全球化对世界整体是好的,但对一个国家而言却是利弊互见。具体到美国,高科技产品(商用飞机等)出口是好处,低端产品劳动岗位流失是代价。选择性的贸易保护政策对美国还是有好处的。当然,这会面临其它国家的反对,这就看大家如何博弈了。
IRAQ war问题本质上还是美国长远安全战略问题。G.W. Bush追求美国绝对安全战略, BO追求全球政府合作性安全战略。这两种安全战略,很难说谁好谁坏。我认为中国印度等人口大国因为经济全球化会崛起,因此我认为BO的安全战略更符合美国未来10--30年的实际。
改革开放30年来,中国一直在美国政府的刁难中,在美国媒体的妖魔化中,在与美国明斗暗暧昧中发展。无论民主还是共和,中国都很习惯了。
mcFan wrote:
This will be my 1st time (and hopefully the last time) to support a Republican
BO is a pretty good motivation speaker. But beyond that, not much:
- no track record,
自古英雄出少年,当最高领导主要靠特殊品性,经验不重要。除了连任的,谁有当总统的经验?
- connections to the Black racists,
与某群体关系密切,不一定就是只为了该群体的利益。在美国,种族歧视虽然有很大改善,但离实质的种族平等发展还很有距离。整体而言,黑人收入低,教育水平低,犯罪率高。在这样的客观环境中,Black racists的出现是正常的。BO与他们有联系,了解同情他们,为他们争取利益,这对美国的和谐发展是有好处的。Black racists不是好的东西,但它反映出的社会问题是客观存在的,是需要政府着力解决的。
- promise to increase tax
加税可以增加政府收入,改善政府收支平衡,改善美元因财政赤字而贬值的压力。可靠,信誉良好,道德高尚的美元为美国带来了巨大的经济利益。目前美元不断贬值,正侵蚀它的良好品质,这对美国很不利,美国急需加税减少财政赤子稳定美元。
- promise to nullify/change the NAFTA treaty while secretly met the Canadian government to assure that will not happen
这表明BO 打算实施选择性的贸易保护政策。经济全球化对世界整体是好的,但对一个国家而言却是利弊互见。具体到美国,高科技产品(商用飞机等)出口是好处,低端产品劳动岗位流失是代价。选择性的贸易保护政策对美国还是有好处的。当然,这会面临其它国家的反对,这就看大家如何博弈了。
- did not call any meeting for three years as a sub-committee chair in Senate
If that is not enough to scare you, look at his other promises that surely will concern you:
-promise to ban toys from China,
这仍然表明BO 打算实施选择性的贸易保护政策。
-call to boycott the 2008 Olympics,
为其实施选择性的贸易保护政策找政治借口。
-refusal to answer the questions from the American Chinese 20-80 committee, which led to a boycott by Asians in California
On the surface, BO looks like a good candidate completely opposite to G.W. Bush as he is opposed to the IRAQ war. But on a closer look, they are pretty similar as both hold extreme, radical ideology. One wanted to go to IRAQ no matter what it would cost, the other wants to leave IRAQ no matter what it will cost.
IRAQ war问题本质上还是美国长远安全战略问题。G.W. Bush追求美国绝对安全战略, BO追求全球政府合作性安全战略。这两种安全战略,很难说谁好谁坏。我认为中国印度等人口大国因为经济全球化会崛起,因此我认为BO的安全战略更符合美国未来10--30年的实际。
改革开放30年来,中国一直在美国的刁难中,在与美国明斗暗暧昧中发展。无论民主还是共和,中国都很习惯了。
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/05/2008
原来是利令智昏(至糊)啊。一百刀就能蒙住众人的眼睛和(或)嘴巴。 - posted on 06/05/2008
abc:
this is ZT for your enjoyment.
How will Obama affect the stock market:
Bar and entertainment stocks should do well with all the people trying to drink their problems away.
Accounting stocks as a result of needing to deduct anything you can to prevent it from being confiscated by the govt.
Chinese stocks should do well as the progress to a free market economy at the same time we socialize america
The big Bond houses in wall st should do well trying to find financing for all the govt debt that is going to be needed to ride this into the ground.
bankruptcy related stocks should do well
baby care needs like diapers formula etc... for all the welfare baby factories ramping up to full production to raise their household incomes.
you can also make some extra cash and hedging your longs with some shorts
Fast food and service industry companies will have a harder time when minimum wage goes up (gotta make sure that highly motivated 17yr old who cant give proper change without the aid of the register can raise a family working there)
Its going to be a good time. higher taxes and higher costs to make sure that 'less than steller employees' behind the counters can make a 'living wage' regardless of their skills, abilities, or motivational levels.
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/05/2008
dup - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/05/2008
谢谢,pepper 兄弟。谢谢你的一贯支持。
pepper wrote:
abc:
this is ZT for your enjoyment.
- posted on 06/05/2008
touche wrote:
关于欧巴马,有一点可肯定:做为一个黑白混血儿,一个曾在印尼和夏威夷长大的孩子,他对其他民族的敏感性,同情心和理解肯定是较强的。而美国总统主要的活是国际事务。
mcFan wrote:
It seems that even you are not sure of BO.
That maybe wishful thinking.
In my experience, the opposite is more often true.
Moreover, it is well known that BO did not get along with his Asian step-father and considered him too mean. - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/06/2008
abc wrote:
与麦饭交流,欢迎其他大侠拍砖。
自古英雄出少年,当最高领导主要靠特殊品性,经验不重要。除了连任的,谁有当总统的经验?
If anyone can be called a hero, McCain is the one. When offered freedom after being captured, he declined and said he would stay with his men.
Image what BO would have said if this happened to him: Yes, yes, please release me. I am black and they forced me here. I am different from other white guys. - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/06/2008
老麦是英雄没错,但不能认为阿O就是狗熊啊。:)
pepper wrote:
If anyone can be called a hero, McCain is the one. When offered freedom after being captured, he declined and said he would stay with his men.
Image what BO would have said if this happened to him: Yes, yes, please release me. I am black and they forced me here. I am different from other white guys. - posted on 06/06/2008
touche wrote:我认为经验不重要,重要的是洞察力,对社会机制对未来的洞察力。美国面临前所未有的形势,洞察力和改变突破更重要。麦坎是个好人,继承有优势。阿O是新锐,我看好他的洞察力。
欧巴马是三人中国事经验最少的,凭经验选,我不会选他。但是也许我们求变心切,我们愿意跳入未知的世界,也不原意走熟路。从这一点上,选举就像赌博。
我也认为中国事务是美国最重要的国际事务,这只要坚持实事求是的科学精神就好了。中美实力的急剧变化使经验因素的作用很有限。
麦坎我是担心他太老了。
我有同样的担心。
最后民主还是好。这是有了民主你才能感觉到的。也是独裁体制下的酸葡萄们感觉不到的。民主和性爱一样,有时让人失望,但比起其他游戏还是好玩。
我现在主要吃土豆烧牛肉,吃饱了就吃点橘子与苹果,不吃酸葡萄,加州的甜葡萄也不吃。
至于ML,中国同胞在大陆的远比在美国的幸福。特别是在美国的中国男同胞们,对于ML,想没酸葡萄心理都很难。
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/06/2008
Obama's strength is that he has been a motivation speaker for a long long time and knows how to inspire people, especially the poor people. But he cannot debate issues. He lost every debate with Clinton, so I am not sure what 洞察力 he has. - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/06/2008
I thought gas holiday is a good debate example about Obama vs Clinton Vs MaCain. - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/06/2008
I must have lived in a cave. When did the gas holiday debate happen? - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/06/2008
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/06/2008
我说诸位,你们喜欢A不喜欢B的标准是什么?个人利益,意识形态理念,还是个人魅力?是对世界人民好?对美国人好?对某个阶层的人好?还是对自己好? - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/06/2008
我的角度是:假设自己是一个理性美国人,第一看重美国国家利益,各个阶层和谐发展是美国国家利益的一部分,其次看重自己个人利益,不看重意识形态理念,领导个人魅力属于锦上添花的事。
从这个角度出发,我选择阿O.
gz wrote:
我说诸位,你们喜欢A不喜欢B的标准是什么?个人利益,意识形态理念,还是个人魅力?是对世界人民好?对美国人好?对某个阶层的人好?还是对自己好? - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/06/2008
really:
It is more like a shouting match than a debate. - posted on 06/06/2008
abc wrote:
我的角度是:假设自己是一个理性美国人,第一看重美国国家利益,各个阶层和谐发展是美国国家利益的一部分,其次看重自己个人利益,不看重意识形态理念,个人魅力属于锦上添花的事。
gz wrote:
我说诸位,你们喜欢A不喜欢B的标准是什么?个人利益,意识形态理念,还是个人魅力?是对世界人民好?对美国人好?对某个阶层的人好?还是对自己好?
Everything as abc said, just the order is in reverse.
To be more serious, my view is largely from reading WSJ.
- posted on 06/06/2008
唉,你不是跟深圳那呆着吗?这么在乎美国国家利益干吗?美国总统对你个人利益有啥关系?
我的标准简单,意识形态。
abc wrote:
我的角度是:假设自己是一个理性美国人,第一看重美国国家利益,各个阶层和谐发展是美国国家利益的一部分,其次看重自己个人利益,不看重意识形态理念,个人魅力属于锦上添花的事。
gz wrote:
我说诸位,你们喜欢A不喜欢B的标准是什么?个人利益,意识形态理念,还是个人魅力?是对世界人民好?对美国人好?对某个阶层的人好?还是对自己好? - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/06/2008
gz wrote:
我的标准简单,意识形态。
sth like: the more to the left the better?
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/06/2008
参加这条线的讨论,我假设自己是一个理性美国人。
至于我真实的个人利益,由许多人决定,因为他们决定了国际国内政治,对这些我无能为力。我能做的,是在客观条件下争取自己的利益。
老麦与阿O,谁当总统对我真实的个人利益都没什么影响。我对中国很有信心。
政治是我的爱好,我的娱乐。
gz wrote:
唉,你不是跟深圳那呆着吗?这么在乎美国国家利益干吗?美国总统对你个人利益有啥关系?
我的标准简单,意识形态。
- posted on 06/06/2008
初选刚刚结束,大选刚刚来临. touche和令胡就迫不及待地将民主游戏变为赌博游戏了. 在café赌博是非法的. 令胡的100元没收, 由café管理捐献给四川灾民.
除此之外, touche和令胡的观点也有问题. touche的"我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎", 看了半天,不是不对, 有点太表面化了. 欧巴马的年轻没经验, 克林顿的男人般的抱负/野心/斗志, 麦坎一头白发的老, 不难看不出啊. touche需要往深处谈. 克林顿可以免谈, 已经出局. 麦坎也可谈可不谈, 政坛老人, 又参加过竞选, 比较熟悉. 最有意思的还就是欧巴马. 尽管媒体也好café也好, 谈他谈得最多. 我还是觉得欧巴马最值得谈. 我也不明白为什么touche(还有其他人)认为苦瓜对欧巴马的支持是幼稚的和不理性的. 她对希拉里的反感可能是有女性特有的那种感性.对欧巴马的支持也充满热情. 但是,她谈欧巴马也谈的很实在,不空洞. 选人还是选政策是选总统的两种方式. 二者本身没有感性和理性之分. 各有各的理由.
我搞不明白令胡的"四十二个州"的预测又是怎么出来的? 美国近些年大选政治的landscape, 说是大选, 如果只关心大选结果, 其实只要看几个州的结果就行了. 也就是几个所谓的battle states/swing states. 只是这一次这些州从上次的5,6个扩大到了10来个. 其它大部分州的结果现在已经出来了. 麦坎无论如何赢不了纽约, 麻州,依州等州, 欧巴马无论如何也赢不了大部分南方的那些州. 令胡如果真的要预测, 不用给出42州那么精确的结果, 就说说battle states中几个大州(宾州, 俄州, 佛州和明州)的结果和理由,我们就满足了. 或着不妨就说说我们café的老面所在的维吉尼亚州的结果. 此州以往是共和党的州, 这次成为swing state. 她的南面是共和的天下, 北面是民主的天下. 众多的军人,退伍军人和军事基地人员是共和军, 大量的IT白领是民主小资. 请问, 谁能赢得该州?
touche 0 令胡 0
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/06/2008
这个St Dude, 把我当半仙了了? 我下定决心,排除万难,也只敢给个统计数字。奥巴马胜出42个洲以上是可以赌的,不就100块钱吗。这种事情也就值这么多钱。当然,有人认为他的命还不值100快钱,那就不是我的问题了。:)
你要是让我具体列出这42个州是哪42州,那就不是统计问题,而是概率问题了。而且是超小概率问题。你列的州我从来没有在那里呆过一天,我怎么知道哪个会在那里赢。:) - posted on 06/06/2008
深刻就到我的分析为止了。更深刻的,那就一定是屁话了。
如果麦坎年轻十岁,欧巴马没有希望。根据最近民测,在克林顿的打击下,民众认为欧巴马麦坎谁赢大选已经是头颈碰头颈。请大家注意民意的走向。
在国人小资中,欧巴马呼声很高,可是在非小资中,对黑人有看法的多得很。
欧巴马赢不了西裔人,这是一个很突出的现象。
在初选中欧巴马碰壁的地方,大选中也难逃劫数。
我看多数白人,还没准备好接受黑人总统。虽然作为非白人,我希望欧巴马撑一下信壳。
欧巴马,克林顿的辩论,我只看了一次,欧巴马显得空泛,不是克林顿的对手。
昨天欧巴马在佛吉尼亚州演讲之后,在华府和克林顿会了面。
st dude wrote:
初选刚刚结束,大选刚刚来临. touche和令胡就迫不及待地将民主游戏变为赌博游戏了. 在café赌博是非法的. 令胡的100元没收, 由café管理捐献给四川灾民.
除此之外, touche和令胡的观点也有问题. touche的"我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎", 看了半天,不是不对, 有点太表面化了. 欧巴马的年轻没经验, 克林顿的男人般的抱负/野心/斗志, 麦坎一头白发的老, 不难看不出啊. touche需要往深处谈. 克林顿可以免谈, 已经出局. 麦坎也可谈可不谈, 政坛老人, 又参加过竞选, 比较熟悉. 最有意思的还就是欧巴马. 尽管媒体也好café也好, 谈他谈得最多. 我还是觉得欧巴马最值得谈. 我也不明白为什么touche(还有其他人)认为苦瓜对欧巴马的支持是幼稚的和不理性的. 她对希拉里的反感可能是有女性特有的那种感性.对欧巴马的支持也充满热情. 但是,她谈欧巴马也谈的很实在,不空洞. 选人还是选政策是选总统的两种方式. 二者本身没有感性和理性之分. 各有各的理由.
我搞不明白令胡的"四十二个州"的预测又是怎么出来的? 美国近些年大选政治的landscape, 说是大选, 如果只关心大选结果, 其实只要看几个州的结果就行了. 也就是几个所谓的battle states/swing states. 只是这一次这些州从上次的5,6个扩大到了10来个. 其它大部分州的结果现在已经出来了. 麦坎无论如何赢不了纽约, 麻州,依州等州, 欧巴马无论如何也赢不了大部分南方的那些州. 令胡如果真的要预测, 不用给出42州那么精确的结果, 就说说battle states中几个大州(宾州, 俄州, 佛州和明州)的结果和理由,我们就满足了. 或着不妨就说说我们café的老面所在的维吉尼亚州的结果. 此州以往是共和党的州, 这次成为swing state. 她的南面是共和的天下, 北面是民主的天下. 众多的军人,退伍军人和军事基地人员是共和军, 大量的IT白领是民主小资. 请问, 谁能赢得该州?
touche 0 令胡 0
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/06/2008
touche wrote:
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/06/2008
touche wrote:
欧巴马,克林顿的辩论,我只看了一次,欧巴马显得空泛,不是克林顿的对手。
昨天欧巴马在佛吉尼亚州演讲之后,在华府和克林顿会了面。
Two months ago PBS interviewed 欧巴马 on the economical crisis. His performance was quite different from usual. He was 空泛, hesitative, not sure of what to say.
- posted on 06/06/2008
Honestly, on the term of Economic, all of them have no much to do, all they can do is promote certain policies to deal with situation, I don’t think Clinton and McCain are doing better on this topic, they just say bullshit with confidence shamelessly even they don’t believe what they say at all. Yes, Obama wasn’t confident on that debate, but I see that because he didn’t believe what they say and he was hesitated on this topic, this is his greenness, not a bad thing, it certainly doesn’t mean either Clinton or McCain has better solution.
Just think gas holiday, Clinton and McCain suggested, can you say they are better than Obama? Obama is more honest, that is all. - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/06/2008
粗看了一下,令胡到底嫩些。老氓把自己身上的刺勇敢地拔下了之后,令胡便不是对手了。:))
七月,每个发帖都要打四个字母吗?好像挺麻烦的。 - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/06/2008
lhc wrote:
Yeap, that's exactly what I'm afraid is going to happen.
我的一票是肯定给奥巴马的,虽然我并不看好这场大选,本来民主党稳操胜券的,现在变成鹿死谁手。 - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/06/2008
Quiz: What is Obama drenched in ;)
浮生 wrote:
lhc wrote:
Yeap, that's exactly what I'm afraid is going to happen.
我的一票是肯定给奥巴马的,虽然我并不看好这场大选,本来民主党稳操胜券的,现在变成鹿死谁手。 - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/06/2008
touche wrote:
Quiz: What is Obama drenched in ;)
Honestly, I don't know what kind of sh*t he is and will be in :) Does it really matter, as long as the republicans *make* him look suspicious, inconsistent and too complicated for many voters to feel comfortable with, no?
I won't listen to them. I will vote for him regardless, with my right brain. :) - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/06/2008
We all know OB’s supporters are better educated or right brain, HC’s no much education or no brain.
Now, it is time to take a look JM’s supporters to see what kind brains they have.
浮生 wrote:
I won't listen to them. I will vote for him regardless, with my right brain. :) - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/06/2008
Hahaha, I will go to right brain, if JM has better brain, he can get my vote :-)
OBFans wrote:
We all know OB’s supporters are better educated or right brain, HC’s no much education or no brain.
Now, it is time to take a look JM’s supporters to see what kind brains they have.
浮生 wrote:
I won't listen to them. I will vote for him regardless, with my right brain. :) - posted on 06/06/2008
July wrote:
Hahaha, I will go to right brain, if JM has better brain, he can get my vote :-)
OBFans wrote:
We all know OB’s supporters are better educated or right brain, HC’s no much education or no brain.
哎,July也来捣乱,Why is this English word "right" so damn loaded? :)
I didn't mean to say I had the "right" brain as opposed to wrong (that would be politically sooo incorrect :)); I meant I vote with my right brain as opposed to my dwindling left one. BTW, I voted HC in the primary. I'm not a supporter of OB, or any candidate, per se. I just vote for the democrates, the lesser of the two evils -- that, is a no brainer to me :) - posted on 06/07/2008
浮生你笑死我了。
我是陪你玩。
浮生 wrote:
哎,July也来捣乱,Why is this English word "right" so damn loaded? :)
I didn't mean to say I had the "right" brain as opposed to wrong (that would be politically sooo incorrect :)); I meant I vote with my right brain as opposed to my dwindling left one. BTW, I voted HC in the primary. I'm not a supporter of OB, or any candidate, per se. I just vote for the democrates, the lesser of the two evils -- that, is a no brainer to me :) - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/07/2008
俺这儿是平民意识,喜欢drama, underdog最终赢了,就高兴。俺饺着这种意识的人也有一些。
gz wrote:
我说诸位,你们喜欢A不喜欢B的标准是什么?个人利益,意识形态理念,还是个人魅力?是对世界人民好?对美国人好?对某个阶层的人好?还是对自己好? - posted on 06/07/2008
浮生 wrote:
touche wrote:就是的,令胡太不fair了,let's make it a fair bet: if Obama wins < 42 states, touche will send a check to everyone in this thread (now I'm in this thread); if he wins >= 42 states, LHC will send a check to everyone in this thread. :)
You are so bad. Why can't I find a decent gambler among Chinese? ;)
lhc wrote:
Just make it 100 dollars. Obama wins < 42 states, your send a cheque to everybody in this thread; >=42 states, I send a cheque to you. :)
这么说不顶这条线岂不是亏大了? - posted on 06/07/2008
touche 如此中肯啊,我还以为你对奥巴马是老夫聊发少年狂,跟着他激动人心,与时俱进的口号走呢。他的确是个酷哥帅哥,见他用左手写字,那个性感哟。:-)
你自个检讨了,对希拉里有可能性别歧视。她那些个做法,行为包括性格,搁男性身上,人会说,有魄力,坚毅,该踩就踩,该海盟山誓对天发誓时就跺脚许愿,具有政治家素质,准是个好总统。一放女人身上被性别透视镜一照,嘿嘿,好像没别的,只剩它了。我对希拉里不甚满意的是她用国家安全来吓人,massage人的恐惧神经,那个半夜电话,切!和共和党的招数有啥两样?别的没看出何酷哥有太大区别。
奥巴马被提名甚至当选,更加证明民主真是个好东西。没有时难以体验想象其好处,一旦有了且得好好守着,省得丢了时弄不好撒鲜血抛头颅都换不回来。
我在此线排了队的阿,到时谁该给钱时别数漏啦哈。 - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/07/2008
Hilary Clinton has just made a well-crafted and well-delivered speech ending her campaign and endorsing Barak Obama.
I admire something in this strong woman. One should recognize greatness even in one's enemy.
One good idea is to put her in charge of the nation's health care reform; Another is to put her on the supreme court when there's a vacancy. - posted on 06/07/2008
还是让她去搞健康保险吧。她是个机会主义者,只有在为自己的名利奋斗时才不顾一切,太自私算计,我可不放心她做大法官。我对她极没信心。她的强悍并不说明她是一个有原则的人,如果你好好看看她办的案子,你会一身冷汗的。七月心里的总统是林肯,律师是Darrow :-)
我支持奥巴马的一个重要原因是,他带来了一种正直美好的力量,给人以希望,就是政治家也不必太脏,太无耻,太狠毒,如果我的女儿喜欢搞政治律法,我希望她的才能得以发挥,可不希望她是个bitch,是个凶悍的女人,我希望她是个美丽温柔的女人,也是个才华横溢的律师。。。。希拉里的政治生涯让我绝望,让我对女性的解放感到疑惑,倒是奥巴马,让我看到了这种可能性。
坦率地说,我觉得苦瓜的见解比touche理性深刻:-)
touche wrote:
Hilary Clinton has just made a well-crafted and well-delivered speech ending her campaign and endorsing Barak Obama.
I admire something in this strong woman. One should recognize greatness even in one's enemy.
One good idea is to put her in charge of the nation's health care reform; Another is to put her on the supreme court when there's a vacancy. - posted on 06/07/2008
Maybe only a woman knows how bad a woman can be? ;)
Maybe this bad woman is in every woman? ;)
Maybe I am kinder to women? ;)
The speech was the best of hers; It even has a shot to be a legendary one.
July wrote:
还是让她去搞健康保险吧。她是个机会主义者,只有在为自己的名利奋斗时才不顾一切,太自私算计,我可不放心她做大法官。我对她极没信心。她的强悍并不说明她是一个有原则的人,如果你好好看看她办的案子,你会一身冷汗的。七月心里的总统是林肯,律师是Darrow :-)
我支持奥巴马的一个重要原因是,他带来了一种正直美好的力量,给人以希望,就是政治家也不必太脏,太无耻,太狠毒,如果我的女儿喜欢搞政治律法,我希望她的才能得以发挥,可不希望她是个bitch,是个凶悍的女人,我希望她是个美丽温柔的女人,也是个才华横溢的律师。。。。希拉里的政治生涯让我绝望,让我对女性的解放感到疑惑,倒是奥巴马,让我看到了这种可能性。
坦率地说,我觉得苦瓜的见解比touche理性深刻:-) - posted on 06/07/2008
touche wrote:
Maybe only a woman knows how bad a woman can be? ;)
Yes. When we fight, for whatever cause, and for some unknown reason, we become bitches; when men fight, they are merely fighters. :)
Maybe this bad woman is in every woman? ;)
Yes. We fear so deeply of this evil and ugly side of ourselves, that we must detest any showing of such behaviour of any woman if we have any sense left. :)
Maybe I am kinder to women? ;)
than to men? Yes, and for that you can be called a gentleman. :) If on the other hand, a woman is kinder to men than to her own sex, she may be qualified as a slut. :) - posted on 06/07/2008
与七月交流。
美国总统竞选是竞争激烈到极致的地方。希拉里在竞选中豁出去拼老命,失去了女性温柔与优雅,我觉得她虽败尤荣。指责她是机会主义者,甚至由此推论她为人有问题,是不公平的。毕竟她是在社会游戏规则内做事。
作为律师,全力帮客户争取利益是她的职业要求。至于法律有漏洞被她大大地利用了,只能说明法律需改进,不是她的错。
我认为,律师在其职业实践中加入过多的社会道德因素是不妥的,因为这样很可能损害客户利益。一个人自己的社会道德很难说就代表了社会公正。
社会实践表明,最能保证社会公正的是法律而不是个人的社会道德。
奥巴马所表现出的正直与美好品性,未必就不是策略。你可能说他很早就这样。也许他很早就有政治雄心,因而从很早起就严格要求自己。
奥巴马反对伊拉克战争是一个很耐人寻味的事件。如果奥巴马当选美国总统,他不可能把类似对伊拉克战争这样的事当作一种错误去纠正。并且基本可以肯定,类似于伊拉克战争的事他仍会干得很起劲,比如继续孤立古巴朝鲜伊朗等。否则美国人民的巨大利益就要葬送在他手里。
如果奥巴马只有正直与美好品性而没有杰出政治家所应具备的理性谋略与手腕,美国人民选择他就是真犯傻。美国人民的成熟大概不是选择叶利钦的苏联人民所能比的。
没有两把刷子只是一个好人当美国总统能行吗?美国可不是加拿大或瑞士,美国要承担引领世界向何处去的责任
这样分析,奥巴马是不是一个机会主义者呢?
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/07/2008
所以张爱玲说:“一个坏女人往往比一个坏男人坏得更彻底”。“一个恶毒的女人就恶得无孔不入”。
- posted on 06/07/2008
July wrote:你和苦瓜眼神好,盯住希拉里的不顾一切,自私算计再说别的。我若是选民的话,this doesn't bother me. 反正我又不选她做朋友一起喝咖啡,而是按总统的job description 来选。奥巴马当然有理想,不然不会放弃基层工作来竞选,至于正义与美好,除了他们夫妇长得较美好外,暂时还没看出来。政治与政治家是两回事,他和希拉里从事的职业是一样的,尽管方式上他的也许更可爱可亲。女性解放的确路遥遥,我觉得正是希拉里这样的bitch 与男人拳打脚踢,从某种意义上来讲,也替你我挨砖,回头你我的女儿将来若不小心从了政,或许就可以不用那么bitch 了。所以从这一点看,这个女人不简单。
还是让她去搞健康保险吧。她是个机会主义者,只有在为自己的名利奋斗时才不顾一切,太自私算计,我可不放心她做大法官。我对她极没信心。她的强悍并不说明她是一个有原则的人,如果你好好看看她办的案子,你会一身冷汗的。七月心里的总统是林肯,律师是Darrow :-)
我支持奥巴马的一个重要原因是,他带来了一种正直美好的力量,给人以希望,就是政治家也不必太脏,太无耻,太狠毒,如果我的女儿喜欢搞政治律法,我希望她的才能得以发挥,可不希望她是个bitch,是个凶悍的女人,我希望她是个美丽温柔的女人,也是个才华横溢的律师。。。。希拉里的政治生涯让我绝望,让我对女性的解放感到疑惑,倒是奥巴马,让我看到了这种可能性。
坦率地说,我觉得苦瓜的见解比touche理性深刻:-)
- posted on 06/07/2008
奥巴马所表现出的正直与美好品性,未必就不是策略。你可能说他很早就这样。也许他很早就有政治雄心,因而从很早起就严格要求自己。
Where did you get that impression? Did the China's media say that?
Some more evidence on 奥巴马 的正直与美好品性
1. Did not pay any of parking tickets that he got while attending Harvard for twnety years until earlier this year (this guy is really NB)
2. Obama claimed that his uncle was part of the American brigade that helped to liberate Auschwitz.
Really? Fact: Auschwitz was liberated by the Soviet Red Army.
3. Obama's connection with Mr. Zesko, who was recently convicted of fraud.
Zesko advised Obama on the purchase of a new Chicago home and the two toured the house together. Zesko, moreover, in his wife's name, purchased a vacant lot next to the new Obama home at the same time from a couple who insisted on selling both pieces of property simultaneously.
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/07/2008
麦饭,不要这样歧视我的智力。我有自己的独立思考能力,不是China's media 说什么我就信什么。
如果我真是那样naive,早被咖啡讥笑得无地自容落慌而逃了,咖啡连讽刺带漫骂的能力我早就领教过了。
奥巴马的正直与美好品性是七月的观点,我假设她是对的。
mcFan wrote: - posted on 06/07/2008
Many of you are probably impressed by Obama speeches. I am too. But I also have experience with other motivation speakers.
My company sometimes invited professional motivation speakers and I listened to two of them this year. The two are dressed very well. They also happen to be blacks.
They are very warm, very smooth speakers, talking in a very powerful way. In short, they are the old-version of Obama (they are older than him). It just felt so good listening to them.
But if you ask me what did they talked about? I hardly remember anything. Actually, after the meeting, I asked another guy what did the guy talked about. "Nothing". - posted on 06/08/2008
talking in a very powerful way, and you feel good listening to them, yet you don't remember anything, are we missing something here?
mcFan wrote:
Many of you are probably impressed by Obama speeches. I am too. But I also have experience with other motivation speakers.
My company sometimes invited professional motivation speakers and I listened to two of them this year. The two are dressed very well. They also happen to be blacks.
They are very warm, very smooth speakers, talking in a very powerful way. In short, they are the old-version of Obama (they are older than him). It just felt so good listening to them.
But if you ask me what did they talked about? I hardly remember anything. Actually, after the meeting, another guy asked me what did the guy talked about. "Nothing". - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/08/2008
LM wrote:
talking in a very powerful way, and you feel good listening to them, yet you don't remember anything, are we missing something here?
The content is not the same as delivery.
The talk was supposed to be "diversity" and "how to deal with people from a diverse background". The two spent half of the time on their own life (which is really not related to the subject), in the other half they spent on ... got lost. - posted on 06/08/2008
这个女人是不简单,你可以说她是个殉道者,但是她的bitch却使她和大坏境同流合污,没有真的给女性彻底的平等带来希望,反而使之功亏一篑。至少奥巴马在竞选中带来了新的game rule, 而这种健康一些坏境才更会让女人发挥才能。我以前有个女老板,和希拉里像极了,最后我只好跑掉,这样的女人根本不能解放女人 :-)
不管是总统,经理。。。。凡是领袖,就是要和人在一起。没有绝对的job describtion, 人的性格在工作中占的比列至少50%,我出去找工作,第一步是考技能,然后要和大家interview, 后者是前者的3-5倍的时间,就是要看我的personality, teamwork, EQ....这些软件,才是真正最后决定要不要你的关键。竞选本来就是什么都选 :-)
再说了,如果说歧视,世上的歧视多了,人种不也是个歧视?
鹿希 wrote:
July wrote:你和苦瓜眼神好,盯住希拉里的不顾一切,自私算计再说别的。我若是选民的话,this doesn't bother me. 反正我又不选她做朋友一起喝咖啡,而是按总统的job description 来选。奥巴马当然有理想,不然不会放弃基层工作来竞选,至于正义与美好,除了他们夫妇长得较美好外,暂时还没看出来。政治与政治家是两回事,他和希拉里从事的职业是一样的,尽管方式上他的也许更可爱可亲。女性解放的确路遥遥,我觉得正是希拉里这样的bitch 与男人拳打脚踢,从某种意义上来讲,也替你我挨砖,回头你我的女儿将来若不小心从了政,或许就可以不用那么bitch 了。所以从这一点看,这个女人不简单。
还是让她去搞健康保险吧。她是个机会主义者,只有在为自己的名利奋斗时才不顾一切,太自私算计,我可不放心她做大法官。我对她极没信心。她的强悍并不说明她是一个有原则的人,如果你好好看看她办的案子,你会一身冷汗的。七月心里的总统是林肯,律师是Darrow :-)
我支持奥巴马的一个重要原因是,他带来了一种正直美好的力量,给人以希望,就是政治家也不必太脏,太无耻,太狠毒,如果我的女儿喜欢搞政治律法,我希望她的才能得以发挥,可不希望她是个bitch,是个凶悍的女人,我希望她是个美丽温柔的女人,也是个才华横溢的律师。。。。希拉里的政治生涯让我绝望,让我对女性的解放感到疑惑,倒是奥巴马,让我看到了这种可能性。
坦率地说,我觉得苦瓜的见解比touche理性深刻:-)
- posted on 06/08/2008
I am wondering if British call Ms. Thatcher bitch when she ran for prime minister, or she ran like a woman.
July wrote:
这个女人是不简单,你可以说她是个殉道者,但是她的bitch却使她和大坏境同流合污,没有真的给女性彻底的平等带来希望,反而使之功亏一篑。至少奥巴马在竞选中带来了新的game rule, 而这种健康一些坏境才更会让女人发挥才能。我以前有个女老板,和希拉里像极了,最后我只好跑掉,这样的女人根本不能解放女人 :-)
不管是总统,经理。。。。凡是领袖,就是要和人在一起。没有绝对的job describtion, 人的性格在工作中占的比列至少50%,我出去找工作,第一步是考技能,然后要和大家interview, 后者是前者的3-5倍的时间,就是要看我的personality, teamwork, EQ....这些软件,才是真正最后决定要不要你的关键。竞选本来就是什么都选 :-)
再说了,如果说歧视,世上的歧视多了,人种不也是个歧视?
鹿希 wrote:
July wrote:你和苦瓜眼神好,盯住希拉里的不顾一切,自私算计再说别的。我若是选民的话,this doesn't bother me. 反正我又不选她做朋友一起喝咖啡,而是按总统的job description 来选。奥巴马当然有理想,不然不会放弃基层工作来竞选,至于正义与美好,除了他们夫妇长得较美好外,暂时还没看出来。政治与政治家是两回事,他和希拉里从事的职业是一样的,尽管方式上他的也许更可爱可亲。女性解放的确路遥遥,我觉得正是希拉里这样的bitch 与男人拳打脚踢,从某种意义上来讲,也替你我挨砖,回头你我的女儿将来若不小心从了政,或许就可以不用那么bitch 了。所以从这一点看,这个女人不简单。
还是让她去搞健康保险吧。她是个机会主义者,只有在为自己的名利奋斗时才不顾一切,太自私算计,我可不放心她做大法官。我对她极没信心。她的强悍并不说明她是一个有原则的人,如果你好好看看她办的案子,你会一身冷汗的。七月心里的总统是林肯,律师是Darrow :-)
我支持奥巴马的一个重要原因是,他带来了一种正直美好的力量,给人以希望,就是政治家也不必太脏,太无耻,太狠毒,如果我的女儿喜欢搞政治律法,我希望她的才能得以发挥,可不希望她是个bitch,是个凶悍的女人,我希望她是个美丽温柔的女人,也是个才华横溢的律师。。。。希拉里的政治生涯让我绝望,让我对女性的解放感到疑惑,倒是奥巴马,让我看到了这种可能性。
坦率地说,我觉得苦瓜的见解比touche理性深刻:-)
- posted on 06/08/2008
eh...
so, it was realy not that powerful.
mcFan wrote:
LM wrote:The content is not the same as delivery.
talking in a very powerful way, and you feel good listening to them, yet you don't remember anything, are we missing something here?
The talk was supposed to be "diversity" and "how to deal with people from a diverse background". The two spent half of the time on their own life (which is really not related to the subject), in the other half they spent on ... got lost. - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/08/2008
哈哈,奥巴马找他的supporters要钱,替希拉里还债。这次我给,给希拉里,是真心的,实在为她可惜。4年前她出来,我肯定选她。 - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/08/2008
记得刚到美国时,老板说,如果你要学习英语演讲,可以听听周末的电视布道。记住,要听黑人牧师。 - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/08/2008
不管谁赢了,还请考虑抽些许来帮咖啡交年费啊。
俺这两星期学会了讨饭,原来不是很难,特别是不为自己讨的话。见到有赌庄,先为咖啡讨点。咖啡开下去,赌庄不断有。下回赌赌第三次大战何时何方开打…… - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/08/2008
哈哈,这个我最清楚,我每周去教堂,10多年了,什么样的牧师讲道都听过。
黑人牧师的声音最好,浑厚响亮,节奏感特好。黑人是最虔诚的,爱激动,一激动就载歌载舞。我认为这是他们的音乐天赋,就像黑人会唱歌一样。
但是,最最会讲道的是那些。。。。guess what? 是台湾牧师 :-)
八十一子 wrote:
记得刚到美国时,老板说,如果你要学习英语演讲,可以听听周末的电视布道。记住,要听黑人牧师。 - posted on 06/08/2008
Absolutely! Who speaks better than Martin Luther King? No one, not even God himself!
Who were the best speakers in previous primaries? Blacks! In either parties.
Alan Keyes, republican, this guy is breathtaking!
Al Sharpton, democratic. People used to look down on him, laughing at him for not having a decent suit. But he changed all this. He is witty and he is quick and he was the best speaker, debater among the primary rivalries .
I don't think Obama speaks better than his two brothers. However, BO LOOKS and likely is more intelligent, cooler, neater with an elitist flair befitting someone coming out on top from Harvard Law.
八十一子 wrote:
记得刚到美国时,老板说,如果你要学习英语演讲,可以听听周末的电视布道。记住,要听黑人牧师。 - posted on 06/08/2008
In our public presentation training, a teacher said that for a general presentation, the delivery is the most important factor and accounts for 70% success, while the contents only accounts for 30% success.
This is quite surprising to our Chinese, who are used to think the contents are the most important. By the way, Chinese are in general not good public speakers, because they tend to focus on the techincal details, while the audience is more interested to know "who is this guy, is he/she cool? can he tell a joke?" - posted on 06/08/2008
台湾牧师很好色的吧?
July wrote:
哈哈,这个我最清楚,我每周去教堂,10多年了,什么样的牧师讲道都听过。
黑人牧师的声音最好,浑厚响亮,节奏感特好。黑人是最虔诚的,爱激动,一激动就载歌载舞。我认为这是他们的音乐天赋,就像黑人会唱歌一样。
但是,最最会讲道的是那些。。。。guess what? 是台湾牧师 :-)
八十一子 wrote:
记得刚到美国时,老板说,如果你要学习英语演讲,可以听听周末的电视布道。记住,要听黑人牧师。 - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/09/2008
欧巴马上台, 我现在有两个担心, 一是税收, 一是贸易. 商业周刊最近一期谈到欧巴马的税收政策. 他要给top 2%的人加税. 但是他开的那些支票, 需要太多的钱. 只加top 2%的人的税显然不够. 所以最后需要多交税的可能远不止top 2%.
另外我怕他实行贸易保护. - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/09/2008
Well said, I share the same concern...
In addition, I don't like his foreign policy toward China...
I'll vote for John McCain...
Connie wrote:
欧巴马上台, 我现在有两个担心, 一是税收, 一是贸易. 商业周刊最近一期谈到欧巴马的税收政策. 他要给top 2%的人加税. 但是他开的那些支票, 需要太多的钱. 只加top 2%的人的税显然不够. 所以最后需要多交税的可能远不止top 2%.
另外我怕他实行贸易保护. - posted on 06/09/2008
Connie wrote:
欧巴马上台, 我现在有两个担心, 一是税收, 一是贸易. 商业周刊最近一期谈到欧巴马的税收政策. 他要给top 2%的人加税. 但是他开的那些支票, 需要太多的钱. 只加top 2%的人的税显然不够. 所以
tax increases proposed by Obama will affect more than the top 2%
1. he will increases the tax rate for capital gains (now 15%) which affect all
investors
2. he will remove the cap on social security (now capped to $90k), So if you make more than $150k, you will pay $5k more per year
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/09/2008
Indeed, I worry about it too, don't want to pay more tax from my pay check, haaa :-)
mcFan wrote:
tax increases proposed by Obama will affect more than the top 2%
1. he will increases the tax rate for capital gains (now 15%) which affect all
investors
2. he will remove the cap on social security (now capped to $90k), So if you make more than $150k, you will pay $5k more per year
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/09/2008
麦坎可以选一个年轻的副总统搭档。 - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/09/2008
要说欧巴马和克林顿的政策应该相似, 都要加税要保护贸易. 但克林顿给我的感觉是更predictable. 欧巴马就让人拿不准. 我担心他会大踏步地带着美国向着社会主义的方向前进:) 看美国当下的情形, 这样做会颇得一部分人心. 但从长远看, 这也正是把美国带向全面衰退之路.
要自由还是要平等? - This is the question:) - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/09/2008
这个有点儿耸人听闻了。
自由市场是美国政客都认同的经济形式,政府参与多少,两党有不同的理念,民主党可能认为由政府来二次分配财富的百分比要高一些,但不致于到了社会主义的地步。
Connie wrote:
我担心他会大踏步地带着美国向着社会主义的方向前进:) 看美国当下的情形, 这样做会颇得一部分人心. 但从长远看, 这也正是把美国带向全面衰退之路.
- posted on 06/09/2008
市场经济包括宏观经济与微观经济两部分。不严格地说,宏观经济就是社会主义,微观经济才是自由经济。
作为资本的奴隶与剥削对象,自由经济中的劳动者被“算计”到了无以复加的地步,他们实际是很辛苦很可怜的,这包括IT,金融领域的所谓高级劳动者。美国劳动者,一生负债,一生为一套房子打工。不工作休息是一种奢侈。
对劳动者的社会福利,是宏观经济既社会主义的重要部分,是人类对效率的一种牺牲,对规律的一种反抗,是人类善待自己和自我觉醒,应该属于人类文明的进步。
一定的政府支出是必须的。如果美国政府入不敷出,要么加税,要么印美元。
美国作为世界老大,要维持那么大的国防,科研,教育支出,如何平衡政府收支,将会捆扰美国未来10--20年。
美国继续心比天高还是回到现实脚踏实地,这是对美国总统真正的考验,这也真正决定人类向何处去。
Connie wrote:
要说欧巴马和克林顿的政策应该相似, 都要加税要保护贸易. 但克林顿给我的感觉是更predictable. 欧巴马就让人拿不准. 我担心他会大踏步地带着美国向着社会主义的方向前进:) 看美国当下的情形, 这样做会颇得一部分人心. 但从长远看, 这也正是把美国带向全面衰退之路.
要自由还是要平等? - This is the question:) - posted on 06/10/2008
Socialist-styled capitalism gives people very little incentive to work hard.
In Canada before the social welfare reforms, many people only worked half year and spent the other half collecting the unemployment insurance. This way, they could make almost the same after-tax income as those fully employed, but with only half the efforts. As a result, the un-employment rate in Canada was very high (about 10-20% in the middle 90’s). After the social welfare reform, those people returned to full employment and the unemployment rate decreased drastically.
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/10/2008
所以,社会福利把握一个度最重要。
中国新《劳动法》间接增加了社会福利,直接提高了劳动成本,对经济有比较大的负面作用,但还是值得的。
福利养懒人肯定不行,美国这方面问题不严重。凭我的理解,美国也不是养懒人的地方。美国是强者文化,效率文化。其结果是,技能低的劳动者在美国生活很辛苦。
mcFan wrote:
Socialist-styled capitalism gives people very little incentive to work hard.
- posted on 06/10/2008
Connie wrote:
要说欧巴马和克林顿的政策应该相似, 都要加税要保护贸易. 但克林顿给我的感觉是更predictable. 欧巴马就让人拿不准. 我担心他会大踏步地带着美国向着社会主义的方向前进:) 看美国当下的情形, 这样做会颇得一部分人心. 但从长远看, 这也正是把美国带向全面衰退之路.
要自由还是要平等? - This is the question:)
欧巴马和克林顿 both blamed 贸易 and free trade treaties for the job losses in America, even though study after study shows that the opposite is true. Their respective supporters even debated who is more against NAFTA (North America Free Trade Agreement). The conclusion is obvious: Obama. - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/10/2008
abc wrote:
福利养懒人肯定不行,美国这方面问题不严重。凭我的理解,美国也不是养懒人的地方。美国是强者文化,效率文化。其结果是,技能低的劳动者在美国生活很辛苦。
Not sure if you are aware of the social welfare reform in US under Bill Clinton. - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/10/2008
不太清楚。那时我主要关心美国的外交政策。如果您能简要介绍下,我很感谢,真心的。
mcFan wrote:
Not sure if you are aware of the social welfare reform in US under Bill Clinton. - posted on 06/10/2008
由于贸易保护必然引起对方反弹,结果两败俱伤渔人得利。比如美国抵制中国的玩具,中国就可能购买空客的飞机。
Obama,贸易保护主义忽悠选民可以,作为政策是不行的。
mcFan wrote:
欧巴马和克林顿 both blamed 贸易 and free trade treaties for the job losses in America, even though study after study shows that the opposite is true. Their respective supporters even debated who is more against NAFTA (North America Free Trade Agreement). The conclusion is obvious: Obama. - posted on 06/10/2008
奥巴马那有哪个本事,你不喜欢他4年就把他掳下来。
经济政策都有正负面,本来就是平衡,今天富人太富了,民主党就想办法打土豪,分田地,明天太平等了,共和党就让一部份人先富起来。民主的好处就是不断平衡。
LM wrote:
这个有点儿耸人听闻了。
自由市场是美国政客都认同的经济形式,政府参与多少,两党有不同的理念,民主党可能认为由政府来二次分配财富的百分比要高一些,但不致于到了社会主义的地步。
Connie wrote:
我担心他会大踏步地带着美国向着社会主义的方向前进:) 看美国当下的情形, 这样做会颇得一部分人心. 但从长远看, 这也正是把美国带向全面衰退之路.
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/10/2008
abc好像是在美国待过一段时间的,有多久,给大家讲讲你作为过客对美国的视角吧?我有一个电讯公司作老总的中学同学来美国工作了半年,他的视角也挺有意思。 - posted on 06/10/2008
这是不错的。IT的工作不都外包到印度了吗?制造业及其萧条。美国现在处在一个变革时期,民主党就是要适当保护本土人民的利益。他们是在选美国总统,当然要以美国的利益为主。MaCain的机会才是忽悠选民的,哪些工作那里是一般蓝领能做的?当然,全球经济不可逆转,可美国本土蓝领失业是一个无法否认的事实。
mcFan wrote:
欧巴马和克林顿 both blamed 贸易 and free trade treaties for the job losses in America, even though study after study shows that the opposite is true. Their respective supporters even debated who is more against NAFTA (North America Free Trade Agreement). The conclusion is obvious: Obama. - posted on 06/10/2008
谢谢rzp 。我在美国呆过14个月,主要在UC-Berkely学习。对美国的感受主要是两方面,文字或电视,直接与人接触。
文字或电视的影响是主要的,与人接触主要是confirm一下。
主要的感受:
1。人都是差不多的,各种性格各种理想各种价值观的人都有。比如,我同学中有男女互泡的,老师对漂亮MM也是殷勤有加。
2。美国很讲科学,没有科学精神相当于弱智,很受鄙视。美国的强大归于其科学精神。
总结一句话就是,美国人与我们是一样的,不同在于他们更讲科学。
——————
在美国的中国同胞,相当一部分人鉴于国内科学精神不足,放松对自己的科学要求,说话想当然。比如有些学者如薛涌朱学勤,在呼吁民主自由人权等西方价值观的时候常常科学精神不足。这在华人人文学者中有一定的普遍性。
我在咖啡斗嘴,主要策略就是用更科学的精神应对缺欠科学的言论。从这点而言,我觉得我比对手更美国。许多人认为我是GCD的卧底,实在太不科学,太不美国,太冤枉我了。
rzp wrote:
abc好像是在美国待过一段时间的,有多久,给大家讲讲你作为过客对美国的视角吧?我有一个电讯公司作老总的中学同学来美国工作了半年,他的视角也挺有意思。 - posted on 06/10/2008
所以我说看不透奥巴马。 他到底能怎样change? 他不明白自己最多也只是搞搞平衡吗? 所以他张口闭口change, 总是让人生疑。
July wrote:
奥巴马那有哪个本事,你不喜欢他4年就把他掳下来。
经济政策都有正负面,本来就是平衡,今天富人太富了,民主党就想办法打土豪,分田地,明天太平等了,共和党就让一部份人先富起来。民主的好处就是不断平衡。
LM wrote:
这个有点儿耸人听闻了。
自由市场是美国政客都认同的经济形式,政府参与多少,两党有不同的理念,民主党可能认为由政府来二次分配财富的百分比要高一些,但不致于到了社会主义的地步。
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/10/2008
July wrote:
这是不错的。IT的工作不都外包到印度了吗?制造业及其萧条。美国现在处在一个变革时期,民主党就是要适当保护本土人民的利益。他们是在选美国总统,当然要以美国的利益为主。MaCain的机会才是忽悠选民的,哪些工作那里是一般蓝领能做的?当然,全球经济不可逆转,可美国本土蓝领失业是一个无法否认的事实。
可到底什么是“美国的利益”?保护大势已去的制造业? 保护低技能的失业者?还是与时俱进,开放贸易,积极提高竞争力?
所以我说要自由还是要平等,这是个问题。 - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/10/2008
致于倒是不致于, 开个玩笑:) 不过welfare state还是有可能的。那可是社会主义的变种:)
LM wrote:
这个有点儿耸人听闻了。
自由市场是美国政客都认同的经济形式,政府参与多少,两党有不同的理念,民主党可能认为由政府来二次分配财富的百分比要高一些,但不致于到了社会主义的地步。
- posted on 06/10/2008
奥巴马是在change啊,他的竞选本身就是对华盛顿政治的一个change, 他的 campaign has never taken donations from Washington lobbyists or special interest PACs. 这是一个大change, 想当年,克林顿时代多腐败。他吸引了很多年轻人,不能小看这些力量。 不说别的,他的web site做的真好,竞选及其有效。要是他当了总统,也这样有效的工作,美国是会变好的。他的头脑很清醒,看问题也有远见,比较诚实。
至于以后如何,还要看啊。
这些年,美国的政治的越来越腐败。就说那个墨西哥边界的墙吧,多少年了,就是建不起来,两党打来打去,很多时候都是这些lobbyists在作崇。
Connie wrote:
所以我说看不透奥巴马。 他到底能怎样change? 他不明白自己最多也只是搞搞平衡吗? 所以他张口闭口change, 总是让人生疑。
- posted on 06/10/2008
奥巴马的竞选经费从哪里来呢?
July wrote:
奥巴马是在change啊,他的竞选本身就是对华盛顿政治的一个change, 他的 campaign has never taken donations from Washington lobbyists or special interest PACs. 这是一个大change, 想当年,克林顿时代多腐败。他吸引了很多年轻人,不能小看这些力量。 不说别的,他的web site做的真好,竞选及其有效。要是他当了总统,也这样有效的工作,美国是会变好的。他的头脑很清醒,看问题也有远见,比较诚实。
至于以后如何,还要看啊。
这些年,美国的政治的越来越腐败。就说那个墨西哥边界的墙吧,多少年了,就是建不起来,两党打来打去,很多时候都是这些lobbyists在作崇。
- posted on 06/10/2008
这些是大话吧,一堆人失业,即使低能,也不能不管。再说了,所谓竞争力现在是工钱上的竞争,中国民工的工钱便宜,未必就是‘高能’。美国总不能把所有的工作都外包吧,你吃什么?
Connie wrote:
July wrote:可到底什么是“美国的利益”?保护大势已去的制造业? 保护低技能的失业者?还是与时俱进,开放贸易,积极提高竞争力?
这是不错的。IT的工作不都外包到印度了吗?制造业及其萧条。美国现在处在一个变革时期,民主党就是要适当保护本土人民的利益。他们是在选美国总统,当然要以美国的利益为主。MaCain的机会才是忽悠选民的,哪些工作那里是一般蓝领能做的?当然,全球经济不可逆转,可美国本土蓝领失业是一个无法否认的事实。
所以我说要自由还是要平等,这是个问题。 - posted on 06/10/2008
老百姓给的。奥巴马创立了史无前列的民间internet 捐款系统。每人每月给他25块,他就够了。他击败了美国有史以来最厉害的募捐家。
Connie wrote:
奥巴马的竞选经费从哪里来呢?
July wrote:
奥巴马是在change啊,他的竞选本身就是对华盛顿政治的一个change, 他的 campaign has never taken donations from Washington lobbyists or special interest PACs. 这是一个大change, 想当年,克林顿时代多腐败。他吸引了很多年轻人,不能小看这些力量。 不说别的,他的web site做的真好,竞选及其有效。要是他当了总统,也这样有效的工作,美国是会变好的。他的头脑很清醒,看问题也有远见,比较诚实。
至于以后如何,还要看啊。
这些年,美国的政治的越来越腐败。就说那个墨西哥边界的墙吧,多少年了,就是建不起来,两党打来打去,很多时候都是这些lobbyists在作崇。
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/10/2008
change= " excuse me, I am coming, move over"
- posted on 06/10/2008
July wrote:
奥巴马是在change啊,他的竞选本身就是对华盛顿政治的一个change, 他的 campaign has never taken donations from Washington lobbyists or special interest PACs. 这是一个大change, 想当年,克林顿时代多腐败。他吸引了很多年轻人,不能小看这些力量。 不说别的,他的
July:
Rezko was a major funding raiser for him before being convicted.
Contributions made by the various industry sectors tell the real story in a presidential race. And Opensecrets.org shows that Obama is picking up gobs of money put on the table by these special interests—including those involved in health care, which will surely have a lot riding on the outcome of the election and will expect to be heard after the election is over.
Consider the sector called lawyers and law firms. Clearly, lawyers and law firms lobby on behalf of their own interests—like fighting malpractice reform, which could again surface as a thorny issue for the new administration. Clinton and Obama have raised similar amounts from lawyers and law firms—$11.8 and $9.5 million. McCain and Huckabee have taken far less. The health sector has also given to Obama, Clinton, and McCain. In the pharmaceutical and health product industries, contributions to Clinton total $349,000 and $338,000 to Obama. Again, McCain trails in donations at about $98,000, an indication that the sector sees the real action on the Democratic side of the ballot. Health professionals, which include doctors, nurses, and dentists, have given Clinton some $2.3 million and Obama $1.7 million.
http://www.cjr.org/campaign_desk/obamas_lobbyist_line.php
- posted on 06/10/2008
How do you feel about the election?
Way before they both filed, I told Hillary that I would support her if she ran, and I told Barack I would support him if he ran. So I am now a political bigamist. But I feel either would be great. And actually, I feel that if a Republican wins, John McCain would be the one I would prefer. I think we've got three unusually good candidates this time.
They're all moderate in their approach.
Well, the one we don't know for sure about is Barack. On the other hand, he has the chance to be the most transformational too.
- Re: Warren Buffett 看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/10/2008
touche:
Is that from Buffet?
It is interesting that he perfers moderate, not radical change.
- posted on 06/10/2008
July wrote:美国的竞选财物系统挺复杂, 我也不太懂. 不过Center for Responsible Politics的网页显示, lobbyists贡献的钱实际上只占竞选基金的1%左右. 奥巴马放弃这笔钱是很聪明的选择. 现在更值得注意的是Bundlers. 奥巴马的钱有很多来自这些Bundlers. Bundlers里又有代表special interests的lobbyists. 奥巴马的几个大的interest groups包括律师和银行.
老百姓给的。奥巴马创立了史无前列的民间internet 捐款系统。每人每月给他25块,他就够了。他击败了美国有史以来最厉害的募捐家。
还有象奥卜拉, 替奥巴马幕捐三百万. 这些钱主要来自银行.
所以我觉得奥巴马所谓不收lobbyists的钱是烟幕. 很聪明.
- posted on 06/10/2008
July wrote:
这些是大话吧,一堆人失业,即使低能,也不能不管。再说了,所谓竞争力现在是工钱上的竞争,中国民工的工钱便宜,未必就是‘高能’。美国总不能把所有的工作都外包吧,你吃什么?
为什么是大话呢? 这正是执政者要考虑的问题。什么是他的priority? 保护贸易限制外包, 还是投资教育鼓励企业最大效益的提高生产力? 如果欧巴马认为这些是大话, 我就选择不投他的票。 不过我现在还没决定, 还在想, 在问问题。
工钱只是一个表象。 竞争力包含许多因素, 比如劳动力的素质, 教育, 创新能力, 科学技术。 美国不可能把所有工作都外包, 这主要由市场决定。 而且中国民工的工钱也不可能永远便宜下去。
另外, “低技能”不等于“低能”
美国的一些重工业城市提供了这方面的前车之鉴, 比如底特律。 保护是很短视的做法。
- Re: Warren Buffett 看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/10/2008
Yep. See the whole interview:
http://www.mayacafe.com/forum/topic1sp.php3?tkey=1213112608
mcFan wrote:
touche:
Is that from Buffet?
It is interesting that he perfers moderate, not radical change.
- posted on 06/10/2008
政客嘛,哪有说实话的,不管对什么样的听众,他们都说,I am on your side.
Connie wrote:
所以我说看不透奥巴马。 他到底能怎样change? 他不明白自己最多也只是搞搞平衡吗? 所以他张口闭口change, 总是让人生疑。
July wrote:
奥巴马那有哪个本事,你不喜欢他4年就把他掳下来。
经济政策都有正负面,本来就是平衡,今天富人太富了,民主党就想办法打土豪,分田地,明天太平等了,共和党就让一部份人先富起来。民主的好处就是不断平衡。
LM wrote:
这个有点儿耸人听闻了。
自由市场是美国政客都认同的经济形式,政府参与多少,两党有不同的理念,民主党可能认为由政府来二次分配财富的百分比要高一些,但不致于到了社会主义的地步。
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/10/2008
July wrote:
奥巴马那有哪个本事,你不喜欢他4年就把他掳下来。
I don't think it is that easy. Look at G.W. Bush, who won the re-election even after making so much mess.
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/10/2008
这个国家还有良知的人民应该团结起来,坚决不要选一个自由派的总统,比如,欧巴马。你们知道吗,在一贯保守的科罗拉多州,州长刚刚签署反歧视法令(SB200),允许自认为有变性倾向的人使用异性的公共厕所、健身房浴室等公共设施。某些别有用心的男人,自称有变性倾向,就可以进入女浴室、女厕所。有女孩的家长注意了,在科罗拉多州不要让孩子单独上公共厕所。早晚有一天,这个国家还有常识的大多数人会团结起来,推翻少数派,比如同性恋,等强加在我们身上的法令。是该结束少数派暴政的时候了。 - posted on 06/10/2008
chloe有意思。咖啡这么多年,chloe一直很独立!
我想不到太远,自家门前雪,反歧视还是好的。不然,别人象当年排
犹那样欺负我华人怎么办?
chloe wrote:
这个国家还有良知的人民应该团结起来,坚决不要选一个自由派的总统,比如,欧巴马。你们知道吗,在一贯保守的科罗拉多州,州长刚刚签署反歧视法令(SB200),允许自认为有变性倾向的人使用异性的公共厕所、健身房浴室等公共设施。某些别有用心的男人,自称有变性倾向,就可以进入女浴室、女厕所。有女孩的家长注意了,在科罗拉多州不要让孩子单独上公共厕所。早晚有一天,这个国家还有常识的大多数人会团结起来,推翻少数派,比如同性恋,等强加在我们身上的法令。是该结束少数派暴政的时候了。
这回在维也纳上厕所,很多女的跑到男厕所来,头一回吃惊,久了便
见怪不怪了。还有,我以前独立旅行,住青年客栈,买床位,许多客
栈男女混住的,包括在成都中医学院客栈都这样,
先也是吃惊,久了,也见怪不怪了。裸体浴场也是。
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/10/2008
xw wrote:
这回在维也纳上厕所,很多女的跑到男厕所来,头一回吃惊,久了便
come on. it's the other way around.
I consider politicians necessary devils. Between two of them, I will choose the more known one. Between the two equally known ones, I will choose the more moderate one.
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/10/2008
xw wrote:
这回在维也纳上厕所,很多女的跑到男厕所来,头一回吃惊,久了便
见怪不怪了。
哈哈,我最恨的就是男女厕所平等,连单间的也要分男女,毫无道理。如果这边排队那边没人我就一定会溜进去,有时出来外面的人以为自己来错了地方。不过在日本我也少见多怪了一回,很小的厕所,男女共用,一定要经过他们,有点不适应:)恩,谈政治就是好,连厕所一起谈:)
chole说少数暴政,我怎么一直觉着是多数暴政呀,yeah, speaking of democracy :) - posted on 06/10/2008
mcFan wrote:
I don't think it is that easy. Look at G.W. Bush, who won the re-election even after making so much mess.July wrote:
奥巴马那有哪个本事,你不喜欢他4年就把他掳下来。
The two biggest blunders GWB made in his presidency, whcih can set this country back for generations, are the Iraq war and tax cuts during a expensive war to send the deficit soaring.
McCain endorses both failed policies whole-heartedly.
Don't tell me you want to give him a third term. ;-) - posted on 06/11/2008
tar wrote:
mcFan wrote:The two biggest blunders GWB made in his presidency, whcih can set this country back for generations, are the Iraq war and tax cuts during a expensive war to send the deficit soaring.
I don't think it is that easy. Look at G.W. Bush, who won the re-election even after making so much mess.July wrote:
奥巴马那有哪个本事,你不喜欢他4年就把他掳下来。
McCain endorses both failed policies whole-heartedly.
Don't tell me you want to give him a third term. ;-)
First, I believe Bush made two major mistakes: IRAQ, and the re-appointment of Greenspan as Fed Chairman
Second, Obama is just a mirror image of Bush. One wanted to invade IRAQ no matter what it would cost, the other wants to flee IRAQ no matter what it will cost. McCain has the courage to find a more workable solution in IRAQ even though it is un-popular.
Iraq war was very popular when it bagan.
I myself am against the Iraq war from day 1, but I have to admit the surge is working.
- Re: A Vote for McBamaposted on 06/11/2008
- posted on 06/11/2008
You don't see a problem that Bush's out of whack spending trippled the natioanl debt to an eye popping $9 trillion? But I suppose in a roundabout way you can blame Greenspan too for his obsession in controling the inflation rather than the underpinning problems of deficit spending. However, the fed chair has no authority in determining how money is spent.
Now your comparing of Obama as Bush's mirror image is absurd: for McCain who is with Bush in lockstep with respect to this war, who voted to give everything the WHite House wanted in terms of money, illegal wiretapping, torture, etc., you name it, he is a carbon copy of Bush. In fact, Bush couldn't have hoped for a better clone of himself than McCain to continue his misadventure in Iraq.
Don't swallow McCain's rhetoric about him being a moderate hook, line, and sinker. If you examine his record in congress his is one of the most conservative records there is. On the issues of abortion, religion, and about everything else, he is consistently on the extreme right. His reputation of being a maverick republican, mostly stems from his quick temper and willing to speak ill of his fellow repblicans, will not deter him from appointing the most extreme activist right wing justices to the supreme court. He has a potential for damaging this country for far longer of a period than GWB ever managed to do.
And finally, contrary to popular belief, the "surge" is not the reason that the vilolence in Iraq is down a little bit. All consensus has pointed out that the main Suni insurgency groups are bought off by the good old greenbacks, and other incentives promised to them through negotiations, which is more of a reason for diplomacy.
mcFan wrote:
tar wrote:First, I believe Bush made two major mistakes: IRAQ, and the re-appointment of Greenspan as Fed Chairman
mcFan wrote:The two biggest blunders GWB made in his presidency, whcih can set this country back for generations, are the Iraq war and tax cuts during a expensive war to send the deficit soaring.
I don't think it is that easy. Look at G.W. Bush, who won the re-election even after making so much mess.July wrote:
奥巴马那有哪个本事,你不喜欢他4年就把他掳下来。
McCain endorses both failed policies whole-heartedly.
Don't tell me you want to give him a third term. ;-)
Second, Obama is just a mirror image of Bush. One wanted to invade IRAQ no matter what it would cost, the other wants to flee IRAQ no matter what it will cost. McCain has the courage to find a more workable solution in IRAQ even though it is un-popular.
Iraq war was very popular when it bagan.
I myself am against the Iraq war from day 1, but I have to admit the surge is working.
- posted on 06/12/2008
According to a nonpartisan analysis of the still-evolving tax plans of the presidential candidates, both plans risk causing more economic damage than improvement. While some of Sen. McCain's tax cuts could lift economic activity, the "adverse effects of the resulting increased deficits may make the net effect of the plan economically harmful," the report says. Sen. Obama's plan similarly "would substantially increase the deficit" and could create "additional complexity" to the tax code by offering a range of targeted breaks.
Under Sen. McCain, those in the middle -- making between $66,354 and $111,645 -- would see their after-tax income increase by 0.7%. The biggest benefit would flow to those in the top 0.1% -- those with incomes above $2.8 million -- who would see their after-tax income increase by 4.4%.
Sen. Obama skews his tax cuts toward the lower- and middle-end of the income scale. Those in the middle would see their after-tax income increase by 2.4% , or $1,042. Americans with incomes above $2.8 million would see their after-tax income decrease by 11.5%.
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/411693_CandidateTaxPlans.pdf - posted on 06/12/2008
Latest NBC/Wall Street Journal Poll: Obama Leads McCain Nationally by 6 Points
Posted 6/11/2008 6:44 PM CDT
Although it's still very early in the campaign, the latest NBC/WSJ poll has Obama leading McCain 47 to 41. I believe this is the bump that we all expected after the primary wars finally finished. The last poll was in April, which had Obama 46-43, within the margin of error for the poll. What's really interesting, though, are the ethnic and voter group breakdowns: Obama leads with African Americans 83-7 (7? - geez), Hispanics 62-28, women 52-33, Catholics 47-40, independents 41-36, all women 52-33, and blue collars 47-42. Among Hillary supporters, Obama leads 61-19. Among white men, as you can imagine, McCain leads 55-35 as he does with soccer moms at 44-38. Among the respondents, 54 to 30 say that they believe Obama will win the election.
Another interesting fact is that if you add Hillary to the ticket, he picks up 3 additional points over McCain/Romney.
So...this most recent poll proves some of Hillary's claims false and some true. She claimed Obama couldn't win women, hispanics, and her supporters. Those claims are all false. However she also claimed that she would help with white men and improve the chances for the ticket. So far, that is proving true.
Of course, this is before the Swift Boat liars start their main assault on Obama for the general. If Hillary, by some miracle, made the ticket, the Swifties target would more than double in size, and, I think, ultimately prove to be a detriment to Obama's chances.
- posted on 06/12/2008
Slate magazine has an article the other day: http://www.slate.com/id/2193223/?from=rss , which challenges both candidates to come clean with their economical plans to seriously curb the deficit problem. Currently neither candidate is honestly telling the truth about the true impact of their economical blueprints for America.
Cynics may point to this to question Obama's "empty promise" of change, or McCain's "straight talk" (and also the belated embrace of change too) as politics as usual. (Touche may want to expand on this. ;-)) Well, there is a lot of truth in it. Especially in Obama's case, as he stakes his whole campaign on change, is he not being exposed as a hypocrite?
People can debate that until the end of the world, but my take is that democracy is all about rules; individual politicians can rarely make a dent in terms of how the game is played. Even a ruthless numbnuts like George Bush can only go so far, as evidenced by the Supreme Court's decision today to restore the habeas corpus in the military tribunal.
So why do I still support Barack Obama enthusiastically? (After all his position on issues differs very little from Hilary's, and the other mainstream Democrats.) Because symbolism does matter too. Because from now on you can tell your kids with a straight face: "Son, if you work hard, you can be the president of the United States some day." No kidding, if a mixed kid grew up with a single mother on foodstamps can be the nominee of a major party, why can't your son be too?
Connie wrote:
According to a nonpartisan analysis of the still-evolving tax plans of the presidential candidates, both plans risk causing more economic damage than improvement. While some of Sen. McCain's tax cuts could lift economic activity, the "adverse effects of the resulting increased deficits may make the net effect of the plan economically harmful," the report says. Sen. Obama's plan similarly "would substantially increase the deficit" and could create "additional complexity" to the tax code by offering a range of targeted breaks.
Under Sen. McCain, those in the middle -- making between $66,354 and $111,645 -- would see their after-tax income increase by 0.7%. The biggest benefit would flow to those in the top 0.1% -- those with incomes above $2.8 million -- who would see their after-tax income increase by 4.4%.
Sen. Obama skews his tax cuts toward the lower- and middle-end of the income scale. Those in the middle would see their after-tax income increase by 2.4% , or $1,042. Americans with incomes above $2.8 million would see their after-tax income decrease by 11.5%.
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/411693_CandidateTaxPlans.pdf - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/12/2008
据CNN MONEY最近文章
----平均收入---McCain---Obama
$112K-$161K -$2,614 -$2,204
$161K-$227K -$4,380 -$2,789
结论:中产阶级--家庭收入100K-227K的,应该投McCain的票.每个人为自己投票,社会就会为大多数人服务.穷人投Obama,中产投McCain.富人爱投谁投谁,反正改变不了大局.
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/12/2008
昨天电视上看见麦坎脖子上的几块老肉,我想他是没戏了。
欧巴马也要小心形象。有几个随便镜头看上去不是很好。一定要clean-cut。若像Chris Rock一个模样,会给人当成打工黑崽。
选举选到后来,就变成选美了。;) - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/13/2008
这两天奥巴马和老麦都在挣扎,说自己都不相信的话。老麦的减税是空头支票,就像老布什的'read my lips', 奥巴马也无法自圆其说。但我还会选奥巴马的,老麦老不说,还糊涂。我实在讨厌他非要打完伊拉克。就是不懂今天不是昨天了,美国没有王牌和实力瞎折腾。还是好好搞经济吧。 - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/13/2008
touche wrote:
选举选到后来,就变成选美了。;)
哪用等到后来,从一开始就是嘛,要不苦瓜July哪来的热情?:) - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/13/2008
If I must choose between righteousness and peace, I choose righteousness.
-- Theodore Roosevelt
The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life.
-- Theodore Roosevelt - posted on 06/14/2008
The median income in US in 2006 was $48,201. I assume in the last two years, the wage is stagnant if not slipping down. With that number, you need a whole lot of people to vote AGAINST their own interest to enable the Republican's slight-of-hand of robbing the MIDDLE class to enrich their rich friends. ;-)
mcFan wrote:
据CNN MONEY最近文章
----平均收入---McCain---Obama
$112K-$161K -$2,614 -$2,204
$161K-$227K -$4,380 -$2,789
结论:中产阶级--家庭收入100K-227K的,应该投McCain的票.每个人为自己投票,社会就会为大多数人服务.穷人投Obama,中产投McCain.富人爱投谁投谁,反正改变不了大局.
- posted on 06/14/2008
tar wrote:
The median income in US in 2006 was $48,201. I assume in the last two years, the wage is stagnant if not slipping down. With that number, you need a whole lot of people to vote AGAINST their own interest to enable the Republican's slight-of-hand of robbing the MIDDLE class to enrich their rich friends. ;-)
mcFan wrote:
据CNN MONEY最近文章
----平均收入---McCain---Obama
$112K-$161K -$2,614 -$2,204
$161K-$227K -$4,380 -$2,789
结论:中产阶级--家庭收入100K-227K的,应该投McCain的票.每个人为自己投票,社会就会为大多数人服务.穷人投Obama,中产投McCain.富人爱投谁投谁,反正改变不了大局.
You call those making 40K middle class, and those making 100K rich people? I guess I just don't get it.
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/14/2008
One reason I support McCain is that he is the least likely to use tax payers' money to bail out the housing speculators. The democrats in Congress are already trying to do just that, and if Obama is elected, he is likely to go with them.
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/14/2008
touche wrote:
昨天电视上看见麦坎脖子上的几块老肉,我想他是没戏了。
what you saw could be the scars left from the Vietnam war. I know he was tortured in prisons by our Vietnam communist brothers.
- posted on 06/14/2008
This is why I don't believe in McCain, I believe in Obama....seems to me Obama is one of us.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
McCain, wife owed $225,000 in credit card debt
Senate disclosure statements give look at candidates' personal finances
Senators John McCain and Barack Obama released their Senate financial disclosure statements on Friday, revealing that Mr. McCain and his wife had at least $225,000 in credit card debt and that Mr. Obama and his wife had put more than $200,000 into college funds for their daughters.
The bulk of the McCains’ obligations stemmed from a pair of American Express credit cards that are held in Cindy McCain’s name. According to the disclosure reports, which present information on debts in a range rather than providing a precise figure, Mrs. McCain owed $100,000 to $250,000 on each card.
Another charge card, held by what was described as a “dependent child,” had also accumulated debts of $15,000 to $50,000. In addition, a credit card held jointly by the couple was carrying $10,000 to $15,000 in debt, the filing indicated, at a stiff 25.99 percent interest rate.
Under Congressional reporting rules, spouses of senators need not specify the exact amount of income they earn from employment, only whether that money exceeded $1,000. Neither Mrs. McCain, an heiress of the Hensley beer distribution company, nor Michelle Obama, a lawyer turned hospital administrator, provided additional information on their salaries in the disclosure form.
- posted on 06/14/2008
I just don't get that either. What is the point?
July wrote:
This is why I don't believe in McCain, I believe in Obama....seems to me Obama is one of us.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
McCain, wife owed $225,000 in credit card debt
Senate disclosure statements give look at candidates' personal finances
Senators John McCain and Barack Obama released their Senate financial disclosure statements on Friday, revealing that Mr. McCain and his wife had at least $225,000 in credit card debt and that Mr. Obama and his wife had put more than $200,000 into college funds for their daughters.
The bulk of the McCains’ obligations stemmed from a pair of American Express credit cards that are held in Cindy McCain’s name. According to the disclosure reports, which present information on debts in a range rather than providing a precise figure, Mrs. McCain owed $100,000 to $250,000 on each card.
Another charge card, held by what was described as a “dependent child,” had also accumulated debts of $15,000 to $50,000. In addition, a credit card held jointly by the couple was carrying $10,000 to $15,000 in debt, the filing indicated, at a stiff 25.99 percent interest rate.
Under Congressional reporting rules, spouses of senators need not specify the exact amount of income they earn from employment, only whether that money exceeded $1,000. Neither Mrs. McCain, an heiress of the Hensley beer distribution company, nor Michelle Obama, a lawyer turned hospital administrator, provided additional information on their salaries in the disclosure form.
- posted on 06/14/2008
我从来不相信一个不能很好handle自己帐单的人。在我看来,这些人不是太笨,就是太混。
我们移民虽然不rich, 可是先想子女的教育, Obama也是个中产阶级,存了很多钱为子女上大学。和我们一样啊。
里根的经济政策看似促进的当时的经济,可后患无穷,说到底就是欠钱。
我们更需要平衡。Obama的思想比较平衡,和我想的差不多 :-)
mcFan wrote:
I just don't get that either. What is the point?
July wrote:
This is why I don't believe in McCain, I believe in Obama....seems to me Obama is one of us.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
McCain, wife owed $225,000 in credit card debt
Senate disclosure statements give look at candidates' personal finances
Senators John McCain and Barack Obama released their Senate financial disclosure statements on Friday, revealing that Mr. McCain and his wife had at least $225,000 in credit card debt and that Mr. Obama and his wife had put more than $200,000 into college funds for their daughters.
The bulk of the McCains’ obligations stemmed from a pair of American Express credit cards that are held in Cindy McCain’s name. According to the disclosure reports, which present information on debts in a range rather than providing a precise figure, Mrs. McCain owed $100,000 to $250,000 on each card.
Another charge card, held by what was described as a “dependent child,” had also accumulated debts of $15,000 to $50,000. In addition, a credit card held jointly by the couple was carrying $10,000 to $15,000 in debt, the filing indicated, at a stiff 25.99 percent interest rate.
Under Congressional reporting rules, spouses of senators need not specify the exact amount of income they earn from employment, only whether that money exceeded $1,000. Neither Mrs. McCain, an heiress of the Hensley beer distribution company, nor Michelle Obama, a lawyer turned hospital administrator, provided additional information on their salaries in the disclosure form.
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/14/2008
July wrote:根据credit card debt来说明其人不能很好handle自己帐单,是否也有些太……和太……?
我从来不相信一个不能很好handle自己帐单的人。在我看来,这些人不是太笨,就是太混。
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/14/2008
太what? Certainly, this tells LOTS!
If he knows how to handle his bill, why does so much debt? For what?
rzp wrote:
July wrote:根据credit card debt来说明其人不能很好handle自己帐单,是否也有些太……和太……?
我从来不相信一个不能很好handle自己帐单的人。在我看来,这些人不是太笨,就是太混。
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/14/2008
I dont know the details on McCain's family finance.
Generally speaking, when someone owes a lot in credit card, that means this person also has a lots of credits, or colleterals. It is a whole different world on how to handle bills for these people.......
It may look bad, for the mainstream Americans will not feel this person is one of them.
It is just my own humble view, may not be correct depends on which point of view you are holding. - Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/16/2008
It's just so hard to argue with someone in love.
I gave up.
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/16/2008
whatever view you have, Obama is parking his money in 529. The writing on the wall: he is expecting higher tax.
I will park my money into 529, 401k, IRA that have any tax benefit. You should too. - posted on 06/16/2008
In your previous post, you said if we all vote with our income level, then the majority will benefit. Since median income is at 48 grand, that means a whole lot of people would have to vote AGAINST their own economical interest to align themselves with 100K+ income groups.
(To follow this line of reasoning of course, I assume you understand what a median number is. ;-))
But you are right on one point: people with 100K annual income are far from rich. And if you live in the Bay Area, that won't even qualify you to buy a house. But that's an argument for another day.
mcFan wrote:
tar wrote:You call those making 40K middle class, and those making 100K rich people? I guess I just don't get it.
The median income in US in 2006 was $48,201. I assume in the last two years, the wage is stagnant if not slipping down. With that number, you need a whole lot of people to vote AGAINST their own interest to enable the Republican's slight-of-hand of robbing the MIDDLE class to enrich their rich friends. ;-)
mcFan wrote:
据CNN MONEY最近文章
----平均收入---McCain---Obama
$112K-$161K -$2,614 -$2,204
$161K-$227K -$4,380 -$2,789
结论:中产阶级--家庭收入100K-227K的,应该投McCain的票.每个人为自己投票,社会就会为大多数人服务.穷人投Obama,中产投McCain.富人爱投谁投谁,反正改变不了大局.
- posted on 06/16/2008
McCain's wife is an heiress to a major beer distribution wealth and is worth probably a couple of hundred million dollars. So to them a credit card debt of a few hundred grand is like a few hundred dollars on our credit card.
The way John McCain ditched his old disfigured wife to marry this one should give anybody a pause though. I have a lot of respect for his loyalty to the country and he served in the military most honorably. But personal loyalty is not his thing. How much of that personality flaw should affect people's vote depends on each and everyone's own perspective. But for anybody who cheered on Clinton's impeachment should be barred from voting for him. ;-)
July wrote:
我从来不相信一个不能很好handle自己帐单的人。在我看来,这些人不是太笨,就是太混。
我们移民虽然不rich, 可是先想子女的教育, Obama也是个中产阶级,存了很多钱为子女上大学。和我们一样啊。
里根的经济政策看似促进的当时的经济,可后患无穷,说到底就是欠钱。
我们更需要平衡。Obama的思想比较平衡,和我想的差不多 :-)
mcFan wrote:
I just don't get that either. What is the point?
July wrote:
This is why I don't believe in McCain, I believe in Obama....seems to me Obama is one of us.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
McCain, wife owed $225,000 in credit card debt
Senate disclosure statements give look at candidates' personal finances
Senators John McCain and Barack Obama released their Senate financial disclosure statements on Friday, revealing that Mr. McCain and his wife had at least $225,000 in credit card debt and that Mr. Obama and his wife had put more than $200,000 into college funds for their daughters.
The bulk of the McCains’ obligations stemmed from a pair of American Express credit cards that are held in Cindy McCain’s name. According to the disclosure reports, which present information on debts in a range rather than providing a precise figure, Mrs. McCain owed $100,000 to $250,000 on each card.
Another charge card, held by what was described as a “dependent child,” had also accumulated debts of $15,000 to $50,000. In addition, a credit card held jointly by the couple was carrying $10,000 to $15,000 in debt, the filing indicated, at a stiff 25.99 percent interest rate.
Under Congressional reporting rules, spouses of senators need not specify the exact amount of income they earn from employment, only whether that money exceeded $1,000. Neither Mrs. McCain, an heiress of the Hensley beer distribution company, nor Michelle Obama, a lawyer turned hospital administrator, provided additional information on their salaries in the disclosure form.
- posted on 06/16/2008
老圣的话一直放在心上。;-)
同美国人聊天,不太容易深入地谈政治问题,只好在午餐,或neighborhood cookout同身边的同事,邻居聊天,拐弯抹角地提到即将来临的大选,初步印象是civilian 70%左右会投Obama,伊战是首要问题,经济问题不是,也许DC周围特殊一些,也许是我接触的人在这一轮经济不景气里影响不大,但Virginia有很多military人员及家属,我的邻居一半都是,他们不喜欢布什,但更不喜欢媒体把伊拉克战争归为immoral,他们相信McCain能够有效地run military,我的感觉,伊战对他们也是首要问题,他们中的大部分会投McCain.
初步感觉,Obama可能会胜出。我在Northern Virginia,比Virgina其它地方liberal 一些, 可能会感觉不准。
st dude wrote:
初选刚刚结束,大选刚刚来临. touche和令胡就迫不及待地将民主游戏变为赌博游戏了. 在café赌博是非法的. 令胡的100元没收, 由café管理捐献给四川灾民.
除此之外, touche和令胡的观点也有问题. touche的"我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎", 看了半天,不是不对, 有点太表面化了. 欧巴马的年轻没经验, 克林顿的男人般的抱负/野心/斗志, 麦坎一头白发的老, 不难看不出啊. touche需要往深处谈. 克林顿可以免谈, 已经出局. 麦坎也可谈可不谈, 政坛老人, 又参加过竞选, 比较熟悉. 最有意思的还就是欧巴马. 尽管媒体也好café也好, 谈他谈得最多. 我还是觉得欧巴马最值得谈. 我也不明白为什么touche(还有其他人)认为苦瓜对欧巴马的支持是幼稚的和不理性的. 她对希拉里的反感可能是有女性特有的那种感性.对欧巴马的支持也充满热情. 但是,她谈欧巴马也谈的很实在,不空洞. 选人还是选政策是选总统的两种方式. 二者本身没有感性和理性之分. 各有各的理由.
我搞不明白令胡的"四十二个州"的预测又是怎么出来的? 美国近些年大选政治的landscape, 说是大选, 如果只关心大选结果, 其实只要看几个州的结果就行了. 也就是几个所谓的battle states/swing states. 只是这一次这些州从上次的5,6个扩大到了10来个. 其它大部分州的结果现在已经出来了. 麦坎无论如何赢不了纽约, 麻州,依州等州, 欧巴马无论如何也赢不了大部分南方的那些州. 令胡如果真的要预测, 不用给出42州那么精确的结果, 就说说battle states中几个大州(宾州, 俄州, 佛州和明州)的结果和理由,我们就满足了. 或着不妨就说说我们café的老面所在的维吉尼亚州的结果. 此州以往是共和党的州, 这次成为swing state. 她的南面是共和的天下, 北面是民主的天下. 众多的军人,退伍军人和军事基地人员是共和军, 大量的IT白领是民主小资. 请问, 谁能赢得该州?
touche 0 令胡 0
- posted on 06/21/2008
《明报》报道,美国民主党总统候选人奥巴马日前做客ABC著名晚间谈话节目《The Jimmy Kimmel Show》,在谈到自己在夏威夷的成长经历时,出人意料地指亚裔“身材较矮,不擅篮球”,引起不少亚裔人士及关注种族问题的美国主流媒体的批评。
奥巴马的原话翻译成中文的大致意思是:“你知道,夏威夷有很好的篮球队,只是,因为,大家都知道,夏威夷有很多亚洲移民,所以一般来说那些篮球队员都不是很高。”
这个节目在全美国播放之后,立即在亚裔小区引来了不少批评。CNN的一档谈话节目《Glenn Beck》还特地回放了这一段讲话。不少亚裔这两天也纷纷在自己的博客上撰文,表达了对奥巴马的失望。
而华裔市议员刘醇逸6月17日晚上也特别发表声明表达抗议。刘醇逸说自己对奥巴马的讲话十分关注,虽然奥巴马可能本身并无恶意,但这样的表述方式却是有问题的,因为它表达的是关于亚裔的刻板印象(stereotypes)。
刘醇逸说,种族问题更多的是一种社会问题而不是生理问题,把某种生理特征与某个种族联系在一起是有问题的。刘醇逸也传达亚裔小区的希望,希望作为总统候选人的奥巴马,即使在讲最轻松的笑话时,也能充分考虑可能产生的政治影响。
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/21/2008
Obama to Break Promise, Opt Out of Public Financing for General
This is Obama's Change No.1. - posted on 06/21/2008
tar wrote:
The way John McCain ditched his old disfigured wife to marry this one should give anybody a pause though. I have a lot of respect for his loyalty to the country and he served in the military most honorably. But personal loyalty is not his thing. How much of that personality flaw should affect people's vote depends on each and everyone's own perspective. But for anybody who cheered on Clinton's impeachment should be barred from voting for him. ;-)
The way that McCain ditched his old wife is actually very interesting. First he took all the responsibility and admited that he made a huge mistake. Secondly he compensated his ex wife very handsomely. You can find all the information on the wiki.
- posted on 06/23/2008
谢LM实在的回答. 欣赏这样的回答--来自自己的观察, 哪怕是个人的观察有限和估计有误.
伊战是首要问题,经济问题不是,也许DC周围特殊一些,也许是我接触的人在这一轮经济不景气里影响不大,但Virginia有很多military人员及家属,我的邻居一半都是,他们不喜欢布什,但更不喜欢媒体把伊拉克战争归为immoral,他们相信McCain能够有效地run military,我的感觉,伊战对他们也是首要问题,他们中的大部分会投McCain.
这一次竞选看V州选举挺有意思, 特别是北V州(DC的郊区). 在过去的几年, 全国没有一个大都会地区的经济增长可以和北V相比. 北V是布什政府过去8年的最大受益者. 联邦政府相当多的钱都花在这里. 忘了是哪一年(2003或2004或2005?), 联邦的花销大幅度增加的一年, 当地公司拿走了增加的三分之二. 伊拉克战争的支出更是让五角大楼对面的那一家家defense contractors生意兴隆. 所以, 如果伊战是北V选民最主要关心的大选议题, 看该地区的选举, 也就是既得利益者的选举更是很intriguing的.
在我看来, 如果不考虑国际政治和石油利益,单纯从国内经济方面考虑, 伊战让军火工业, 国防工业和一些与之有关的工业得以生存. 否则这些工业要么就面临外包的出路(几乎又不可能), 要么就萎缩. 和平年代最压抑的就是这些行业. Raytheon 的战斧巡航导弹不用也作废, 洛克希徳只有新的爱国者导弹经过实战试验才能得到拨款继续生产….. 如果你看看前10名的defense contractors,比较它们九十年代和2002年以后的收入, 赢利, 股票,员工人数(都很容易查到)就看得很清楚. 如果再看看它们公布的一项项的几亿,十几亿到几十亿的政府合同(所谓通过投标赢得的), 再看看伊战拨款, 也许就更看的清楚. 我知道的几家, 一家原来是3,500人的小型defense contractor, 经过短短7,8年变成了12,000人的亿万(年收入)公司. 另一家大公司不景气的时候悲惨到了只有3万5千员工, 现在是10多万员工. 所以, 事情就变成了一种对纳税人钱的态度和理念: 1)是用来保持国防和军火工业的继续强大? 2)还是用来搞福利? 3)还是用来搞其他的东西/建设? 过去8年布什政府显然是选择了1). 麦肯上台肯定还要有1). 奥巴马除了医疗保险, 也就是2), 他的经济政策还要搞罗斯福式的全国性infrastructure建设, 也就是3). 但同时, 在国防上, 尽管国防军火工业不会再得到青睐, 他要把军队从50万恢复到75万的编制. 罗斯福式的全国性infrastructure建设效益肯定不行, 参看华尔街股市从30到处50年代中这二十多年的反应就看的出来. 不过, 我怀疑infrastructure建设只是奥巴马的竞选内容, 他要是真的执政,倒底有多大的决心搞这些, 我还看不出来. 目前为止, 我能看出一点意思的是, 奥巴马上台,也许真的能动一下lobbyist. 在这个国家, 当然需要Special interest groups. 但是, 他们的腐败(他们的代表lobbyist),他们对普通人利益的损害也是到了很严重的程度. 而我估计麦肯上台能做到的一点, 也许是只能做到一点点, 就是限制政府开支spending. 别的我也看不出来.
说到北V州的高科技行业. 如果说加州的硅谷是风险资金(股民)打造出来的, 北V州的硅谷就是纳税人的钱发展出来的. 那里的相当多的IT行业的合同也是来自政府拨款. 既然当地和联邦政府如此息息相关, 看看他们对总统选举的反应很有意思.
LM wrote:
老圣的话一直放在心上。;-)
同美国人聊天,不太容易深入地谈政治问题,只好在午餐,或neighborhood cookout同身边的同事,邻居聊天,拐弯抹角地提到即将来临的大选,初步印象是civilian 70%左右会投Obama,伊战是首要问题,经济问题不是,也许DC周围特殊一些,也许是我接触的人在这一轮经济不景气里影响不大,但Virginia有很多military人员及家属,我的邻居一半都是,他们不喜欢布什,但更不喜欢媒体把伊拉克战争归为immoral,他们相信McCain能够有效地run military,我的感觉,伊战对他们也是首要问题,他们中的大部分会投McCain.
初步感觉,Obama可能会胜出。我在Northern Virginia,比Virgina其它地方liberal 一些, 可能会感觉不准。
- Re: 我看欧巴马,克林顿,麦坎posted on 06/23/2008
老圣分析得很好,赞!
st dude wrote:
- posted on 06/23/2008
North Virginia will benefit from big government spending, that will be the case if Obama wins. Democrats are usually big spenders with the exception of Bill Clinton.
st dude wrote:
谢LM实在的回答. 欣赏这样的回答--来自自己的观察, 哪怕是个人的观察有限和估计有误.
伊战是首要问题,经济问题不是,也许DC周围特殊一些,也许是我接触的人在这一轮经济不景气里影响不大,但Virginia有很多military人员及家属,我的邻居一半都是,他们不喜欢布什,但更不喜欢媒体把伊拉克战争归为immoral,他们相信McCain能够有效地run military,我的感觉,伊战对他们也是首要问题,他们中的大部分会投McCain. - posted on 06/23/2008
I do like his ex-wife, all she said that he was 40 something but wanted to be in 20 again :-)
I think he just liked other men who couldn't help himself at this matter, it doesn't bother me at all :-)
I do not like him, but do not dislike him :-)
mcFan wrote:
tar wrote:The way that McCain ditched his old wife is actually very interesting. First he took all the responsibility and admited that he made a huge mistake. Secondly he compensated his ex wife very handsomely. You can find all the information on the wiki.
The way John McCain ditched his old disfigured wife to marry this one should give anybody a pause though. I have a lot of respect for his loyalty to the country and he served in the military most honorably. But personal loyalty is not his thing. How much of that personality flaw should affect people's vote depends on each and everyone's own perspective. But for anybody who cheered on Clinton's impeachment should be barred from voting for him. ;-)
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