上午看NBC的临时报道,麦肯选了Sarah Palin作竞选搭档。Don't know much about her, but she's so graceful. They will make a good team. 这在国内,也要标题美女副总统了吧? 这回可是真的。
觉得我以前是conservative liberal, 现在过了liberal conservative的线。
- posted on 08/29/2008
Some reports claim that she used to be a runner up Miss Alaska. I have to give McCain credit to his taste in women. ;-)
Jokes aside, she's stunchly anti-abortion, even carried to term a Dawn's syndrome son.
moab wrote:
上午看NBC的临时报道,麦肯选了Sarah Pallin作竞选搭档。Don't know much about her, but she's so graceful. They will make a good team. 这在国内,也要标题美女副总统了吧? 这回可是真的。
觉得我以前是conservative liberal, 现在过了liberal conservative的线。
- Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 08/30/2008
Alaska? Didn't they just build a bridge to no where? Maybe not her fault, though. - Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 08/30/2008
McCain is gambling, and this will probably hurt himself. The father-daughter pair is comical looking. In comparison, the Obama/Biden pair suddenly looks more experienced and ready to take charge.
What the old man is thinking? Some fleeting horny thoughts? ;) - Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 08/30/2008
麦啃同志的政客生涯就是靠 trophy wife 起步的,也该有个 trophy VP 来结束。 - Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 08/30/2008
老马就是喜欢美女,他老婆也是选美小姐 :-)
我想他是乱了阵脚。 - Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 08/30/2008
她是一个坚定的持枪者,我总想起那些死在枪下的孩子。 - Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 08/30/2008
- Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 08/30/2008
Jim Palin, father of Todd Palin, displays a photo of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's beauty queen competition photo, black and white, a 1991 photo of Sarah and her husband Todd, center, and a prom photo of Sarah and Todd, back, at his house in Wasilla, Alaska Friday Aug. 28, 2008. The Alaska governor was picked by Sen. John McCain as his presidential running mate. - posted on 08/30/2008
On the contrary my friend, I think it's quite brilliant political brinksmanship.
Look at this way, McCain figures that his conservative base has always been lukewarm to his candidacy. But even if they sit out on election day, there is still no way Obama can take the red meat states. The battle gournd is faught in the midwest rust belt states. There you have the economically depressed blue color union workers who ostensibly supported Hillary in the Democratic primaries. So tapping a woman whose husband is an unon worker as his running mate is the coup de grace he needs to win this election, that's the idea anyway.
This gimmick designed to pandering to this demographic is fooling no one, or is it? Well, it could work. Never underestimate the unpredicability of the electorate. After all, if these people enthusiatically supported Hillary Clinton but now want to cast their lot with McCain, one of the most conservative senators with his voting record, just because some preceived slight from the Obama camp, one has to question their intelligence, or the lack thereof.
Now it is almost immaterial that this woman is a gun toting homophobic nut who wants creationism be taught in public school and thinks global warming is a myth created by librals in the media. Best of all, she's stunchly against women's choice.
Don't you love politics? ;-)
touche wrote:
McCain is gambling, and this will probably hurt himself. The father-daughter pair is comical looking. In comparison, the Obama/Biden pair suddenly looks more experienced and ready to take charge.
What the old man is thinking? Some fleeting horny thoughts? ;) - Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 08/30/2008
父女配很好。没有了父子配对麦肯造成的压力,美女又给政坛带来一缕清风。比叔侄黑白配有创意得多。 - posted on 08/30/2008
tar wrote:
On the contrary my friend, I think it's quite brilliant political brinksmanship.
Now it is almost immaterial that this woman is a gun toting homophobic nut who wants creationism be taught in public school and thinks global warming is a myth created by librals in the media. Best of all, she's stunchly against women's choice.
Really? 那这女人应该再生一打孩子,然后一手扛着枪一手举着圣经,去参加竞选教皇。
我原只知道阿拉斯加的印地安人特别反对她的环境和经济政策,不知道她的政治宗教信仰如此保守。
呃,上帝啊,你要真是在那儿的话,救救美国,保佑奥巴马当选吧! - Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 08/30/2008
本来马砍中间偏右,但还勉强 tolerable, 现在他大概想拉右翼选票,决不能让他上台! - posted on 08/30/2008
I agree. McCain's choice is very risky. If somehow, McCain dies in his team, this young woman with only two years of governor experience in a remote state will be the commander in chief. I believe this won't be joking matter for some voters...
This also shows McCain is very unpredictable...
Obama/Biden is going to win...
touche wrote:
McCain is gambling, and this will probably hurt himself. The father-daughter pair is comical looking. In comparison, the Obama/Biden pair suddenly looks more experienced and ready to take charge.
What the old man is thinking? Some fleeting horny thoughts? ;) - Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 08/30/2008
McCain is suicidal. - Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 08/30/2008
Palin's 2-yr track record, though short, is brilliant: clean up the state politics, taking on the big oil companies. Which is more real than the "change" promises that Obama yet has to deliver.
However, McCain's decision to choose her as VP candidate is also very risky. I thought McCain would have taken less risk. - Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 08/31/2008
- Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/01/2008
- posted on 09/01/2008
老马的新VP马上要做姥姥了,祝贺一下哈 :-)
She will be grandma soon.
Palin says 17-year-old daughter is pregnant
ST. PAUL, Minn. - John McCain's running mate Sarah Palin said Monday that her 17-year-old unmarried daughter is pregnant.
A statement released by the campaign said that Bristol Palin will keep her baby and marry the child's father.
"Our beautiful daughter Bristol came to us with news that as parents we knew would make her grow up faster than we had ever planned. We're proud of Bristol's decision to have her baby and even prouder to become grandparents," Sarah and Todd Palin said in the brief statement.
"Bristol and the young man she will marry are going to realize very quickly the difficulties of raising a child, which is why they will have the love and support of our entire family," they added.
Senior McCain advisers said the Arizona senator and his top aides had known about Bristol's pregnancy before offering Palin the No. 2 spot on the GOP ticket.
McCain's campaign and the Palins asked that the media respect the couple's privacy. BY LIZ SIDOTI, The Associated Press
- posted on 09/01/2008
The Bridge to Nowhere: A National Embarrassment
by Ronald D. Utt, Ph.D.
Today, Senator Tom Coburn (R-OK) will offer an amendment to the Senate’s appropriation bill to transfer the $223 million that Congress had previously approved for a bridge in Ketchikan, Alaska, to fund reconstruction of a hurricane-damaged bridge in Louisiana. Dubbed the “Bridge to Nowhere,” the bridge in Alaska would connect the town of Ketchikan (population 8,900) with its airport on the Island of Gravina (population 50) at a cost to federal taxpayers of $320 million, by way of three separate earmarks in the recent highway bill. At present, a ferry service runs to the island, but some in the town complain about its wait (15 to 30 minutes) and fee ($6 per car). The Gravina Island bridge project is an embarrassment to the people of Alaska and the U.S. Congress. Fiscally responsible Members of Congress should be eager to zero out its funding.
The bridge has become an object of national ridicule and a symbol of the fiscal irresponsibility of many in Congress toward the money entrusted to them by the taxpayers. It has also become an embarrassment to the people of Alaska and to responsible members of Congress who now find themselves tarred by the same brush dipped in the muck of the highway bill.
In response to this national humiliation, many in Alaska have vented their anger in the state’s newspapers, and the papers’ editors have also objected to the bridge on their editorial pages.
In the Anchorage Daily News, Diane Mucha of Eagle River wrote, “Of course, Alaska should and, hopefully, will volunteer to reject the money for the bridges to nowhere and Congress will apply the money for the hurricane relief efforts.”
David Raskin of Homer, Alaska, wrote, “Alaskans owe an apology to the people of New Orleans, to Alaska Native people and to the Nation for their selfish shortsightedness in sending these scoundrels to Washington and voting to keep them there.”
In the Ketchikan News, Dave Person wrote, “Thinking about the immense disaster in the Gulf States, it occurred to me that the most effective thing that the residents of Ketchikan could do to help would be to return the money earmarked for our Gravina Bridge.”
Back in Anchorage, Art Weiner wrote, “In a collective act of passion, the people of Alaska should request that the funds appropriated for our bridges be used for infrastructure reconstruction in the hurricane-affected area.”
Despite the willingness of many in Alaska to give back the bridge to pay for disaster relief, Alaska’s congressional delegation has dug in its heels, and many of the delegation’s colleagues, including all of congressional leadership, support its resistance. If Alaska loses some of its pork, they fear, so might they.
In opposing Senator Coburn’s amendment to defund the bridge, one prominent Senator told a closed-door meeting of conservatives that the plan was simply impractical. Many of the earmarks, he claimed, are counted towards a state’s equity bonus and thus are part of the state-by-state allocation formula. Defunding the bridge, he said, would direct at most $75 million to Louisiana, with the remaining $148 million returning to Alaska as money the state could use at its discretion for road projects.
Never mind that the Senator seems to view $75 million in taxpayers’ dollars as a sum of little consequence; what the Senator sees as a problem in fact would be a considerable benefit to Alaska. Assuming the Senator’s numbers are right, Alaska’s Department of Transportation would gain $148 million in money it could spend on the state’s transportation priorities instead of a useless bridge that would serve a tiny fraction of the state’s citizens.
Perhaps recognizing that the citizens of Alaska, including many in Ketchikan, do not value the Gravina Island bridge project, its defenders have been forced to resort to threats. One House “Leadership staffer suggested that retribution could be levied for the removal of the project in a technical corrections bill or other measure,” BNA reported. This is the sort of challenge that fiscally responsible senators should relish and, through their votes, show the House leadership exactly what they think of this childish threat. Most importantly, pushing back would show the nation that their august institution of democracy still maintains the moral authority to be trusted with hard-earned tax dollars.
- posted on 09/02/2008
That's one way to catch up McCain on seniority. Hurry up, she'll be grand-grand-ma in no time.
July wrote:
老马的新VP马上要做姥姥了,祝贺一下哈 :-)
She will be grandma soon.
Palin says 17-year-old daughter is pregnant
ST. PAUL, Minn. - John McCain's running mate Sarah Palin said Monday that her 17-year-old unmarried daughter is pregnant.
A statement released by the campaign said that Bristol Palin will keep her baby and marry the child's father.
"Our beautiful daughter Bristol came to us with news that as parents we knew would make her grow up faster than we had ever planned. We're proud of Bristol's decision to have her baby and even prouder to become grandparents," Sarah and Todd Palin said in the brief statement.
"Bristol and the young man she will marry are going to realize very quickly the difficulties of raising a child, which is why they will have the love and support of our entire family," they added.
Senior McCain advisers said the Arizona senator and his top aides had known about Bristol's pregnancy before offering Palin the No. 2 spot on the GOP ticket.
McCain's campaign and the Palins asked that the media respect the couple's privacy. BY LIZ SIDOTI, The Associated Press
- Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/02/2008
touche wrote:
That's one way to catch up McCain on seniority. Hurry up, she'll be grand-grand-ma in no time.
I heard she could pretend to be her grandaughter's mother, was it true?
If yes, then she doesn't need to be a grandy. - Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/02/2008
She reminds of Teddy Roosevelt. Let's resurrect Teddy. - Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/02/2008
It seems to become a joke... - posted on 09/03/2008
这事越来越稀奇,Sarah Pallin4月18日生了个近7磅的儿子,可是没有人知道她怀孕了,这是她在3月份的照片,届时亦有7个月了,可她怀孕了吗?报纸和电视都说她瞒了7个月的怀孕,在孩子出生的前几天突然宣称怀孕了,医院里也没有她孩子的出生记录。
我现在很相信8卦,据我的观察,美国的8卦最后都是真的,比如,前几天John Edward的事情。
March 9,11,14 Photos:
comparison at the same time between her previous pregnancies and her most current one: - Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/03/2008
所以我说这都快成笑话了。
我刚听说这件怪事的反映就是,teenage 女儿未婚先孕,又不让流产,她当妈的还不就得给兜着啦?体谅她们吧!:-) - Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/03/2008
Republic convention at Twin cities. Trying to watch right now. It'd be interesting to see how republicans deal with it.
As for rumors, yes, there's (usually) no smoke without fire.
July wrote:
我现在很相信8卦,据我的观察,美国的8卦最后都是真的,比如,前几天John Edward的事情。
- posted on 09/03/2008
Todd Palin, husband of Sarah, was a member of the secessionist Alaska Independence Party from 1995 through 2002. That's the information we just got from the Alaska Division of elections.
Probably not coincidentally, 2002 was the first time Sarah Palin ran for statewide office in Alaska.
she was a member for two years in the 1990s of the Alaska Independence Party, which has at times sought a vote on whether the state should secede; and that Mr. Palin was arrested 22 years ago on a drunken-driving charge. (Well,that is no big deal...)
- Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/03/2008
The last year's family picture, the daughter looked like 怀孕 :-)
我是不是太无聊了?可这事比何可欣的年龄还重要,她要当总统哈。。。 - posted on 09/03/2008
阿偶,闹阿独啦?
July wrote:
Todd Palin, husband of Sarah, was a member of the secessionist Alaska Independence Party from 1995 through 2002. That's the information we just got from the Alaska Division of elections.
Probably not coincidentally, 2002 was the first time Sarah Palin ran for statewide office in Alaska.
she was a member for two years in the 1990s of the Alaska Independence Party, which has at times sought a vote on whether the state should secede; and that Mr. Palin was arrested 22 years ago on a drunken-driving charge. (Well,that is no big deal...)
- Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/03/2008
Didn't expect to see Lieberman there. His message was "country before party". - Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/03/2008
Lieberman was McCain the first choice of VP but didn't go through, this is why he went to Pallin.
moab wrote:
Didn't expect to see Lieberman there. His message was "country before party". - Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/03/2008
严重同意七月MM。这事要是真的(or 假的)那就是 the mother of all cover-up。
有没有人考证出这张照片的准确日期?
July wrote:
The last year's family picture, the daughter looked like 怀孕 :-)
我是不是太无聊了?可这事比何可欣的年龄还重要,她要当总统哈。。。
- posted on 09/03/2008
It seems she is the female version of General Patton.
[ZT from NY Times]
Palin’s Start in Alaska: Not Politics as Usual
WASILLA, Alaska — The world arrived here more than a century ago with the gold rush and later the railroad. Yet one aspect of American life did not come to town until 1996, the year Sarah Palin ran for mayor and Wasilla got its first local lesson in wedge politics.
The traditional turning points that had decided municipal elections in this town of less than 7,000 people — Should we pave the dirt roads? Put in sewers? Which candidate is your hunting buddy? — seemed all but obsolete the year Ms. Palin, then 32, challenged the three-term incumbent, John C. Stein.
Anti-abortion fliers circulated. Ms. Palin played up her church work and her membership in the National Rifle Association. The state Republican Party, never involved before because city elections are nonpartisan, ran advertisements on Ms. Palin’s behalf.
Two years after Representative Newt Gingrich helped draft the Contract With America to advance Republican positions, Ms. Palin and her passion for Republican ideology and religious faith overtook a town known for a wide libertarian streak and for helping start the Iditarod sled dog race.
“Sarah comes in with all this ideological stuff, and I was like, ‘Whoa,’ ” said Mr. Stein, who lost the election. “But that got her elected: abortion, gun rights, term limits and the religious born-again thing. I’m not a churchgoing guy, and that was another issue: ‘We will have our first Christian mayor.’ ”
“I thought: ‘Holy cow, what’s happening here? Does that mean she thinks I’m Jewish or Islamic?’ ” recalled Mr. Stein, who was raised Lutheran, and later went to work as the administrator for the city of Sitka in southeast Alaska. “The point was that she was a born-again Christian.”
For all the admiration in Alaska for Ms. Palin, her rapid ascent from an activist in the P.T.A. to the running mate of Senator John McCain did not come without battle wounds. Her years in Wasilla, her first executive experience, reveal a mix of successes and stumbles, with Ms. Palin gaining support from a majority of residents for her drive, her faith and her accessibility but alienating others with what they said could be a polarizing single-mindedness.
“She is an aggressive reformer who isn’t afraid to break glass, to bring change to Wasilla and later to the state of Alaska,” said Taylor Griffin, a spokesman for the McCain campaign, who declined to address specific aspects of Ms. Palin’s tenure as mayor. “Washington needs some of that.”
In Wasilla, Ms. Palin is widely praised for following through on campaign promises by cutting property taxes while improving roads and sewers and strengthening the Police Department.
Her supporters say she helped Wasilla evolve from a ridiculed backwater to fast-growing suburb. The population of about 5,000 during her tenure as mayor has grown to nearly 10,000 now, and the city is filling with big box stores, including a Target that is scheduled to open on Oct. 12, one of three opening statewide that day in the chain’s Alaska debut.
But her critics say too much growth too quickly has made a mess of what not long ago was homesteaded farmland.
And for some, Ms. Palin’s first months in office here were so jarring — and so alienating — that an effort was made to force a recall. About 100 people attended a meeting to discuss the effort, which was covered in the local press, but the idea was dropped.
Shortly after becoming mayor, former city officials and Wasilla residents said, Ms. Palin approached the town librarian about the possibility of banning some books, though she never followed through and it was unclear which books or passages were in question.
Ann Kilkenny, a Democrat who said she attended every City Council meeting in Ms. Palin’s first year in office, said Ms. Palin brought up the idea of banning some books at one meeting. “They were somehow morally or socially objectionable to her,” Ms. Kilkenny said.
The librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons, pledged to “resist all efforts at censorship,” Ms. Kilkenny recalled. Ms. Palin fired Ms. Emmons shortly after taking office but changed course after residents made a strong show of support. Ms. Emmons, who left her job and Wasilla a couple of years later, declined to comment for this article.
In 1996, Ms. Palin suggested to the local paper, The Frontiersman, that the conversations about banning books were “rhetorical.”
Ms. Emmons was not the only employee to leave. During her campaign, Ms. Palin appealed to voters who felt that city employees under Mr. Stein, who was not from Wasilla and had earned a degree in public administration at the University of Oregon, had been unresponsive and rigid regarding a new comprehensive development plan. In turn, some city employees expressed support for Mr. Stein in a campaign advertisement
Once in office, Ms. Palin asked many of Mr. Stein’s backers to resign — something virtually unheard of in Wasilla in past elections. The public works director, city planner, museum director and others were forced out. The police chief, Irl Stambaugh, was later fired outright.
Mr. Stambaugh lost a wrongful termination lawsuit against Ms. Palin. He did not respond to a request for an interview.
Ms. Palin also upended the town’s traditional ways with a surprise edict: No employee was to talk to the news media without her permission.
“It was just things you don’t ever associate with a small town,” Victoria Naegele, then the managing editor of The Frontiersman, recalled of Ms. Palin’s first year in office. “It was like we were warped into real politics instead of just ‘Do you like Joe or Mary for the job?’ It was a strange time.”
Ms. Palin, her critics note, was not always the fiscal watchdog she has since boasted of being. In her second term as mayor, she pushed for a half-cent raise in the local sales tax to pay for a $15 million sports complex. The complex is popular and a junior league hockey team plays there now, but the city recently had to pay more than $1.3 million to settle an ownership dispute over the site.
Ms. Palin also began annual trips to Washington to lobby for federal money for specific initiatives, including rail projects and a mental health center. Her running mate, Mr. McCain, has been an outspoken critic of these so-called earmarks and as governor Ms. Palin has sounded more like him, vetoing tens of millions of dollars of local projects sought by state lawmakers.
She is largely viewed as having had her hometown’s best interests at heart when she pursued big projects or an overhaul of city taxes. By the time she ran for re-election in 1999 — again facing Mr. Stein — things had smoothed out. She was returned to office by a large margin, 826 votes to 255.
Ms. Palin, who had campaigned promising to cut her own full-time salary, reduced it from about $68,000 to about $64,000, but she also hired a city administrator, John Cramer, adding a salary to the payroll.
Critics said Republican leaders installed Mr. Cramer, who was closely tied to a powerful local state lawmaker, Lyda Green. Ms. Green, who is retiring this year as Senate president, endorsed Ms. Palin in her campaign for mayor but became one of her biggest critics when Ms. Palin was governor.
Tensions did ease eventually in Wasilla, and Mr. Cramer is given some of the credit, supporters and opponents of Ms. Palin said.
“When I first met Sarah, I would say Sarah was a Republican, with the big R, and that’s it,” said Dave Chappel, Ms. Palin’s deputy mayor for more than two years. “As she developed politically, she began to see beyond the R and look at the whole picture. She matured.”
Just as Ms. Palin terminated employees on her way into office, she also let some go on the way out, including Mr. Cramer. When Ms. Palin completed her second and final term, in 2002, her stepmother-in-law, Faye Palin, was running to succeed her. It seemed like a good idea, except that Faye Palin supported abortion rights and was registered as unaffiliated, not Republican, people who remember the race said. Sarah Palin sided instead with Dianne M. Keller, a religious conservative and an ally on the City Council. Ms. Keller won.
“That was interesting,” Mr. Chappel said. “Faye lives up the street from me. I can’t really say much about that.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/03/us/politics/03wasilla.html?_r=1&ref=politics&oref=slogin - posted on 09/04/2008
Spent three hours taking care of the lawn, so only watched part of Palin's speech over dinner.
I wish she left terrorism and nuclear weapon threats out, because it just doesn't come out right from her mouth, but other than that, wow, impressive. And for those of you who is watching it, can you honestly tell me she's not beautiful, adorable, and is not a good candidate for the vice presidency? She would be a good house-keeper while McCain takes care of the international affairs.
side note: she doesn't believe taxpayer should be paying for government services that's not necessary for the job, and thus put the governor's jet on eBay. People can talk about "changes" all year long. She's a maverick. She will bring real changes rather than lip-service.
- Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/04/2008
...And for those of you who is watching it, can you honestly tell me she's not beautiful, adorable, and is not a good candidate for the vice presidency?
I saw some of it on and off.
Agree with the first half of what you said, and for that she should be on the platform as a supermodel. But don't see why the second half. She makes a good VP just because she is beautiful and adorable?
- posted on 09/04/2008
Yes I am a big sucker for beauty.
Kidding aside, unlike somebody, she doesn't blah about "changes". She seems sharp and know what to go about getting things done. That's good enough for me.
gz wrote:
...And for those of you who is watching it, can you honestly tell me she's not beautiful, adorable, and is not a good candidate for the vice presidency?I saw some of it on and off.
Agree with the first half of what you said, and for that she should be on the platform as a supermodel. But don't see why the second half. She makes a good VP just because she is beautiful and adorable?
- Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/04/2008
Yes, you have a taste just as good as McCain :-)
McCain and Pallin do look like a couple, seriously....
moab wrote:
Yes I am a big sucker for beauty.
- Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/04/2008
July wrote:
Yes, you have a taste just as good as McCain :-)
Is that a compliment? Well I will take it anyway.
McCain and Pallin do look like a couple, seriously....
Marriage should be between a man and a woman. It's ridiculous to hear "I pronounce you husband and husband".
- Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/04/2008
All people should be loved by God and they should have equal right. We don't understand mystery of ourself, but we still need to respect fact that some people are different and they are just one of us.
别挥道德大棒,说同性恋不道德,她和她女儿都是未婚先孕,马坎也不是好东西 :-)
moab wrote:
Marriage should be between a man and a woman. It's ridiculous to hear "I pronounce you husband and husband".
- Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/04/2008
咖啡豆儿们的八卦能力很强大,高山仰止望尘莫及……
我刚才还想说“能否成功隐瞒自己的怀孕差不多能够成为判断一个女人的政治能力的标准。”呢,其实是我错了,我想可能女人的政治能力应该用八卦能力来衡量。 - posted on 09/04/2008
To set the record straight, I didn't say 同性恋不道德.
But since you brought it up, to respect them as they are is one thing, to redefine marriage is another. Civil union is pretty generous and the envelope shouldn't be pushed.
July wrote:
All people should be loved by God and they should have equal right. We don't understand mystery of ourself, but we still need to respect fact that some people are different and they are just one of us.
别挥道德大棒,说同性恋不道德,她和她女儿都是未婚先孕,马坎也不是好东西 :-)
- posted on 09/04/2008
那谁是说Obama一直嘴上谈change吧。可不是,我也觉得谈得太多了。但是他出来参选几乎两年了,这么漫长的竞选,也没有休息的时候,talk show还带周末black的,从这一点上来说,对Obama不公平。这时候谁出来都新鲜,新鲜就是一种优势。Obama可没机会等房子盖好了,自己再出来出任一下花瓶的命运,谁让他是男人呢?
跟身边的老牌共和党人聊了一下,对方首当其冲感觉Pallin这人思路死板不清晰,为什么知道是唐氏婴儿还一定要生下来?测试胎儿的目的是什么,还用测吗?这共和党人本人也是反堕胎的,但是好像是比较理性地反。
顺便说一下马坎,本来他不遭人烦,他在自己党内也没什么朋友,因为不够右。但是自打提名以来,把自己打扮得右不堪言,令本党小党员大呼sick,晚节不保啊。
我觉得Pallin确实有吸引人眼球的地方,本来没兴趣看选举已经个很久了,她一出来,我也跟着看了几眼。(她参选州长的最后时刻,我碰巧在阿拉斯加,但是没有太注意她本人,关心过一点儿闹石油的事儿)说共和党娱乐,那是抬举他们,他们本来是用民主党娱乐的帽子打击对手的,后来打不过,就学着做,跟屁虫吧。我本来根本不相信隐瞒怀孕替女儿生子的传言,太不靠谱了吧,昨天看了七月的八卦还真的又去网上看了看,怎么阿州政府的网站上把州长的照片都隐匿起来了。也看了一段2月份的视频,那身段还真是没有孕味。羡慕死我这等拥有一怀孕就唯恐天下人不知的身材的俗人了。
其实她当了副总统也不是天塌下来的事儿,上帝让美国没落,美国也不敢顶着不没落。没落了,也不是哪个总统副总统的错。错在这个国家长期以来靠着20%的聪明人愚弄80%普通人,在这方面共和党更是拿大伙当傻子,拿傻子当亲爹娘地往前走。在共和党手里,美国就是个拿着榔头的3岁儿童,满眼都是钉子,迟早砸了自己的脚趾头。上帝,你就显会灵吧。
- Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/04/2008
苦瓜 wrote:我本来根本不相信隐瞒怀孕替女儿生子的传言,太不靠谱了吧,昨天看了七月的八卦还真的又去网上看了看,怎么阿州政府的网站上把州长的照片都隐匿起来了。
真的?
老话一句:共和党与共产党也就一字之差。
- Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/04/2008
Your guys way under-estimated Palin. She is more than a pretty face. She has guts and strong wills. - Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/04/2008
People don't vote for VP.
What's more important is in the coming months which candidate shows to have better grip on the real issues of the country in their debates. - Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/04/2008
The rumor mills are working at their full capacity now. I guess the next rumor will be
" McCain and Palin Having an affair".
However, I believe McCain made a huge mistake. I guess His original purpose is to use Palin to attract women voters. But many women easily feel threatened by another woman...
- posted on 09/04/2008
I have to agree with you. I am a woman and scared by all her conservative believes such as anti-abortion, anti-environment, and she put her daughter on the public only because she wants to claim herself (Don’t tell me Obama spreads rumor that she is going to be a grandma) ….McCain is desperate now and playing Hail Mary….
Well, as you suggested, her beauty can attract men to vote her, maybe this is McCain’s smartest move, who knows ;))))
pepper wrote:
The rumor mills are working at their full capacity now. I guess the next rumor will be
" McCain and Palin Having an affair".
However, I believe McCain made a huge mistake. I guess His original purpose is to use Palin to attract women voters. But many women easily feel threatened by another woman...
- posted on 09/04/2008
It is true that people don't vote for VP. But this year's VP pick has much higher stake for both parties given Obama's inexperience and McCain's age. In his own word, Obama said he needs someone who “can help me govern and be my final counsel in the White House”. Apparently, he thinks Joe Biden is the man. McCain's advanced age and his cancer history puts his VP a heartbeat away from the presidency.
Because of that, the VP selection this year was closely watched as the single most important decision both candidates had to make which showed their judgement as president. Biden's pick is not perfect, but is relatively safe. Palin's pick, on the other hand, will turn out to be either a stroke of genius, or an utter blunder.
touche wrote:
People don't vote for VP.
What's more important is in the coming months which candidate shows to have better grip on the real issues of the country in their debates. - posted on 09/04/2008
还是要听其言,观其行。Obama在任期间干了什么事?或者说make了什么change? 他谨小慎微是为了有天能够踏上总统宝座曲线change? I don't buy it. Between him (四平八稳的政客)and a maverick, I pick the latter. At least there will be some change, good or bad aside.
Palin did make some mistakes in her speech, for example, the bridge to nowhere, which will likely by haunting her. But she's able to appeal to the audience in general and claimed herself a "hockey mom", which closely translates to the suburban soccer mom in the mid-west. As for anti-abortion, think of it this way: why would one want to get pregnant if she doesn't want to have the baby in the first place? There are circumstances where a woman is forced to be pregnant but I think that's outside of the scope of the topic.
For those picking her on the prenuptial pregnancy issue, take a moment and ask yourself what's the most important factors in selecting the leaders of a country. To some extent I agree with your comment “在共和党手里,美国就是个拿着榔头的3岁儿童,满眼都是钉子,迟早砸了自己的脚趾头“,but keep in mind Clinton almost got impeached because of his sex scandal, though most people agree he is one of the best president, as a president.
苦瓜 wrote:
那谁是说Obama一直嘴上谈change吧。可不是,我也觉得谈得太多了。但是他出来参选几乎两年了,这么漫长的竞选,也没有休息的时候,talk show还带周末black的,从这一点上来说,对Obama不公平。这时候谁出来都新鲜,新鲜就是一种优势。Obama可没机会等房子盖好了,自己再出来出任一下花瓶的命运,谁让他是男人呢?
跟身边的老牌共和党人聊了一下,对方首当其冲感觉Pallin这人思路死板不清晰,为什么知道是唐氏婴儿还一定要生下来?测试胎儿的目的是什么,还用测吗?这共和党人本人也是反堕胎的,但是好像是比较理性地反。
顺便说一下马坎,本来他不遭人烦,他在自己党内也没什么朋友,因为不够右。但是自打提名以来,把自己打扮得右不堪言,令本党小党员大呼sick,晚节不保啊。
我觉得Pallin确实有吸引人眼球的地方,本来没兴趣看选举已经个很久了,她一出来,我也跟着看了几眼。(她参选州长的最后时刻,我碰巧在阿拉斯加,但是没有太注意她本人,关心过一点儿闹石油的事儿)说共和党娱乐,那是抬举他们,他们本来是用民主党娱乐的帽子打击对手的,后来打不过,就学着做,跟屁虫吧。我本来根本不相信隐瞒怀孕替女儿生子的传言,太不靠谱了吧,昨天看了七月的八卦还真的又去网上看了看,怎么阿州政府的网站上把州长的照片都隐匿起来了。也看了一段2月份的视频,那身段还真是没有孕味。羡慕死我这等拥有一怀孕就唯恐天下人不知的身材的俗人了。
其实她当了副总统也不是天塌下来的事儿,上帝让美国没落,美国也不敢顶着不没落。没落了,也不是哪个总统副总统的错。错在这个国家长期以来靠着20%的聪明人愚弄80%普通人,在这方面共和党更是拿大伙当傻子,拿傻子当亲爹娘地往前走。在共和党手里,美国就是个拿着榔头的3岁儿童,满眼都是钉子,迟早砸了自己的脚趾头。上帝,你就显会灵吧。
- posted on 09/04/2008
Nicely put but only if people perceive that both front men are equally unreal. ;)
Batman wrote:
It is true that people don't vote for VP. But this year's VP pick has much higher stake for both parties given Obama's inexperience and McCain's age. In his own word, Obama said he needs someone who “can help me govern and be my final counsel in the White House”. Apparently, he thinks Joe Biden is the man. McCain's advanced age and his cancer history puts his VP a heartbeat away from the presidency.
Because of that, the VP selection this year was closely watched as the single most important decision both candidates had to make which showed their judgement as president. Biden's pick is not perfect, but is relatively safe. Palin's pick, on the other hand, will turn out to be either a stroke of genius, or an utter blunder.
- Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/04/2008
咖啡人士过于乐观了。奥巴马的忠实支持者都认为他这次不会当选。 - Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/04/2008
Maybe, because last night, She calls Iraq invasion and building pipeline in Alaska "God's plans". In the name of God you can justify anything... this is a scary thought.
:-)
chloe wrote:
咖啡人士过于乐观了。奥巴马的忠实支持者都认为他这次不会当选。 - posted on 09/04/2008
昨天晚上看了一下本地新闻里节选的几段Sarah Pallin 讲话。首先,跟老卖很像的一点,皮笑肉不笑。(朱丽亚拟就更难受,不想笑而不得不笑)。其次,弄了几条攻击奥巴马的不实段子,绝对的共和党大佬垂帘听政效果。她的位置跟小布什很一致,共和党总是需要这种听话好使唤、能唤起瞎过日子的老百姓共鸣的木偶站在前面,幕后推手老奸巨猾于美国人,自以为是于外交事务。
最荒谬的就是,一面呼呼啦啦弄得儿孙成群地在台上表演家庭价值,另一方面紧着把少女怀孕列为私人事件。少女生育问题在美国不算是小问题了吧,这是要推广,还是领导新潮流呢?我甚至怀疑共和党窃喜这桩少女怀孕事件,多贫民的形象啊!
其实美国特需要经济衰退,不衰退到“世界是平的”的程度,美国人是不会学会过日子的。人都有很贱的一面。
可立,要是黑人先生落选,你应该很高兴吧。其实,奥巴马只是代表着一种价值观,他若是真的失败了,是这种价值观的失败,跟黑白没有关系。
- posted on 09/04/2008
Palin opposes abortion and rejects the view that pregnancies caused by rape and incest should be exceptions. The Alaska governor's only exception would be when a doctor determines that continuing a pregnancy would lead to the death of the mother. + Palin has also opposed government financing of sex-education programs in Alaska. Cindy McCain told ABC that she advocated abstinence as a part of sex education at her children's school, but "I believe that it's twofold and I think all of it should be taught." - Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/04/2008
看来看去怎么只有四个孩子(including the baby boy),不是说 mother of five 吗? 没有人注意到 Mr. Palin 很帅吗,两人很般配。 - Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/04/2008
昨晚她参军的大儿子也来了。是啊,她丈夫真帅,爱运动的人都很帅。她全家都很漂亮,包括那个嚼着口香糖的未来女婿。
奥巴马同志的问题就在于,他只代表一种价值观,没有实绩,严重脱离广大群众。
yc wrote:
看来看去怎么只有四个孩子(including the baby boy),不是说 mother of five 吗? 没有人注意到 Mr. Palin 很帅吗,两人很般配。 - Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/04/2008
yc wrote:
看来看去怎么只有四个孩子(including the baby boy),不是说 mother of five 吗? 没有人注意到 Mr. Palin 很帅吗,两人很般配。
One daughter is married. - Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/04/2008
赫赫,价值观跟群众没有关系?
奥巴马干过的事都不算实绩,他当然没有实绩了。
chloe wrote:
奥巴马同志的问题就在于,他只代表一种价值观,没有实绩,严重脱离广大群众。
- Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/04/2008
奥巴马的形象太精英了,广大群众更喜欢战斗英雄,hockey mom(blue collar,American Indian husband 也能加分),我猜。
- Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/04/2008
Really? Do you believe what you just said? At this moment, polls show Obama is still leading, how does he严重脱离广大群众?
chloe wrote:
奥巴马同志的问题就在于,他只代表一种价值观,没有实绩,严重脱离广大群众。
- Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/04/2008
The oldest daughter is pregnant, but not married.
pepper wrote:
One daughter is married. - Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/04/2008
一不小心, 把 hockey mom 看成 horny man 了,不过可能也错不到哪去。:-) - Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/04/2008
呦,gz真幽默,脑子里存不少东西。是不是眼为心声?
gz wrote:
一不小心, 把 hockey mom 看成 horny man 了,不过可能也错不到哪去。:-) - Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/04/2008
是, 是, 副络绎的总是有道理的。:-) - posted on 09/04/2008
Obama在任期间干了什么事?
Are you talking about during his time in the US senate? There is never going to be many legislative great triumph as a US senator, that's the nature of the beast. Any single senator can filibuster a piece of legislation, and it takes 2/3 majority to break a filibuster. McCain has been in the senate for over 20 some odd years, and quick, without googling it, can you tell me what was HIS greatest achivement in the senate? ;-)
And the "maverick" label, it's just that, a political persona McCain carefully cultivated during his long political career. He was against torture before he was for it; he was against Bush's tax cut for rich before he was for it. And his temper always got the better of him when he committed the cardinal sin of speaking ill of his fellow Republicans. But if you look at his voting record, he voted with the Republican caucus 97% of the time. What marverick?
As for Palin, I think her daughter's pregnancy is a minor issue, but the "elite" media and the "liberal" bloggers are having some fun with the hypocrisy displayed by her fervant religious and anti-abortion stances. People can always see through a phony. The larger problem is the ethic investigation of her firing of state employees for allegedly crossed her. And touting her "chief executive" experience of managing a city of three people and a state of 300 is pretty desperate. ;-)
moab wrote:
还是要听其言,观其行。Obama在任期间干了什么事?或者说make了什么change? 他谨小慎微是为了有天能够踏上总统宝座曲线change? I don't buy it. Between him (四平八稳的政客)and a maverick, I pick the latter. At least there will be some change, good or bad aside.
Pallin did make some mistakes in her speech, for example, the bridge to nowhere, which will likely by haunting her. But she's able to appeal to the audience in general and claimed herself a "hockey mom", which closely translates to the suburban soccer mom in the mid-west. As for anti-abortion, think of it this way: why would one want to get pregnant if she doesn't want to have the baby in the first place? There are circumstances where a woman is forced to be pregnant but I think that's outside of the scope of the topic.
For those picking her on the prenuptial pregnancy issue, take a moment and ask yourself what's the most important factors in selecting the leaders of a country. To some extent I agree with your comment “在共和党手里,美国就是个拿着榔头的3岁儿童,满眼都是钉子,迟早砸了自己的脚趾头“,but keep in mind Clinton almost got impeached because of his sex scandal, though most people agree he is one of the best president, as a president.
苦瓜 wrote:
那谁是说Obama一直嘴上谈change吧。可不是,我也觉得谈得太多了。但是他出来参选几乎两年了,这么漫长的竞选,也没有休息的时候,talk show还带周末black的,从这一点上来说,对Obama不公平。这时候谁出来都新鲜,新鲜就是一种优势。Obama可没机会等房子盖好了,自己再出来出任一下花瓶的命运,谁让他是男人呢?
跟身边的老牌共和党人聊了一下,对方首当其冲感觉Pallin这人思路死板不清晰,为什么知道是唐氏婴儿还一定要生下来?测试胎儿的目的是什么,还用测吗?这共和党人本人也是反堕胎的,但是好像是比较理性地反。
顺便说一下马坎,本来他不遭人烦,他在自己党内也没什么朋友,因为不够右。但是自打提名以来,把自己打扮得右不堪言,令本党小党员大呼sick,晚节不保啊。
我觉得Pallin确实有吸引人眼球的地方,本来没兴趣看选举已经个很久了,她一出来,我也跟着看了几眼。(她参选州长的最后时刻,我碰巧在阿拉斯加,但是没有太注意她本人,关心过一点儿闹石油的事儿)说共和党娱乐,那是抬举他们,他们本来是用民主党娱乐的帽子打击对手的,后来打不过,就学着做,跟屁虫吧。我本来根本不相信隐瞒怀孕替女儿生子的传言,太不靠谱了吧,昨天看了七月的八卦还真的又去网上看了看,怎么阿州政府的网站上把州长的照片都隐匿起来了。也看了一段2月份的视频,那身段还真是没有孕味。羡慕死我这等拥有一怀孕就唯恐天下人不知的身材的俗人了。
其实她当了副总统也不是天塌下来的事儿,上帝让美国没落,美国也不敢顶着不没落。没落了,也不是哪个总统副总统的错。错在这个国家长期以来靠着20%的聪明人愚弄80%普通人,在这方面共和党更是拿大伙当傻子,拿傻子当亲爹娘地往前走。在共和党手里,美国就是个拿着榔头的3岁儿童,满眼都是钉子,迟早砸了自己的脚趾头。上帝,你就显会灵吧。
- Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/04/2008
好像连续得过几届的狗拉雪撬(2000-mile Iron Dog)冠军,very impressive.
chloe wrote:
爱运动的人都很帅。 - posted on 09/04/2008
tar wrote:
Are you talking about during his time in the US senate? There is never going to be many legislative great triumph as an US senator, that's the nature of the beast. Any single senator can filibuster a piece of legislation, and it takes 2/3 majority to break a filibuster. McCain has been in the senate for over 20 some odd years, and quick, without googling it, can you tell me what was HIS greatest achivement in the senate? ;-)Obama在任期间干了什么事?
I am trying to follow the logic here, so neither has done much, yet one get the credit for promising "changes"?
And the "maverick" label, it's just that, a political persona McCain carefully cultivated during his long political career. He was against torture before he was for it; he was against Bush's tax cut for rich before he was for it. And his temper always got the better of him when he committed the cardinal sin of speaking ill of his fellow Republicans. But if you look at his voting record, he voted with the Republican caucus 97% of the time. What marverick?
It's not like Obama hasn't changed his positions. Palin is the maverick.
As for Palin, I think her daughter's pregnancy is a minor issue, but the "elite" media and the "liberal" bloggers are having some fun with the hypocrisy displayed by her fervant religious and anti-abortion stances. People can always see through a phony. The larger problem is the ethic investigation of her firing of state employees for allegedly crossed her. And touting her "chief executive" experience of managing a city of three people and a state of 300 is pretty desperate. ;-)
Running a small town can be quite different from running a country. But her role is the VP, house-keeper, per se. She's picked in hope to soften McCain's image and make him more amiable. The democratic just dismissed the most qualified candidate of their party and now qualification is no longer as relevant.
Look at how Palin address this issue (with comments and analysis by reporter).
(quoted from WSJ, 9/4 page A1)
Gov. Palin addressed the experience question head on, speaking at length of her life story -- mother, mayor, governor -- and almost challenging voters to dismiss small-town America if they were to dismiss her.
"I had the privilege of living most of my life in a small town. I was just your average hockey mom, and signed up for the PTA because I wanted to make my kids' public education better," she said.
She also broke away from her prepared remarks to toss in a joking aside about her life as a mother: "You know the difference between a hockey mom and a pit bull?" she asked. "Lipstick."
Where Democrats derided her background as a small-town mayor, she replied that such experience gave her a feel for real Americans. "Before I became governor of the great state of Alaska, I was mayor of my hometown," she said.
"And since our opponents in this presidential election seem to look down on that experience, let me explain to them what the job involves. I guess a small-town mayor is sort of like a 'community organizer,' except that you have actual responsibilities." That was not only a retort to the Obama campaign, but a dig at Sen. Obama's own experience as a community organizer in Chicago. - posted on 09/04/2008
moab wrote:
I am trying to follow the logic here, so neither has done much, yet one get the credit for promising "changes"?
No, neither has done much, therefore one should not promote McCain's experience of achieving "nothing" against Obama's inexperience.
Besides, experience is vastly over-rated, and Senator McCain concurs in choosing Palin. Some of our best presidents are relative new comers. We should however, never again elect a moron to that office.
It's not like Obama hasn't changed his positions. Pallin is the maverick.
What now? A card carrying red meat Republican is a maverick against what? Unless you count the rumor that she used to be a secessionist, but they didn't embrace that with open arms did they? I guess drinking too much kool-aid the convention sprays off can seriously impair judgment, no offense. ;-)
Running a small town can be quite different from running a country. But her role is the VP, house-keeper, per se. She's picked in hope to soften McCain's image and make him more amiable. The democratic just dismissed the most qualified candidate of their party and now qualification is no longer as relevant.
That's typical of the political sleight of hand the Republicans are very good at. They are trying to confuse you (not specifically you, but the electorate in general) about managing experience with moral values and upbringing. It was the likes of Giulianis who went up there and propped up her "executive experience" in running a city and a state. Now the size and the complexity of this managerial experience is therefore relevant. By sneaking in the term small town values, irrelevant in runnning a small town, they are desperately trying to change the subject.
As for her running the VP slot, given McCain's age, of course it should be a great concern if you think Obama is so unqualified.
Look at how Pallin address this issue (with comments and analysis by reporter).
See my above comment. By the way, WSJ is not the fairest journalistic standard one emulates, especailly not after Murdock tookover.
(quoted from WSJ, 9/4 page A1)
Gov. Palin addressed the experience question head on, speaking at length of her life story -- mother, mayor, governor -- and almost challenging voters to dismiss small-town America if they were to dismiss her.
"I had the privilege of living most of my life in a small town. I was just your average hockey mom, and signed up for the PTA because I wanted to make my kids' public education better," she said.
She also broke away from her prepared remarks to toss in a joking aside about her life as a mother: "You know the difference between a hockey mom and a pit bull?" she asked. "Lipstick."
Where Democrats derided her background as a small-town mayor, she replied that such experience gave her a feel for real Americans. "Before I became governor of the great state of Alaska, I was mayor of my hometown," she said.
"And since our opponents in this presidential election seem to look down on that experience, let me explain to them what the job involves. I guess a small-town mayor is sort of like a 'community organizer,' except that you have actual responsibilities." That was not only a retort to the Obama campaign, but a dig at Sen. Obama's own experience as a community organizer in Chicago. - posted on 09/04/2008
I watched Sarah Palin last night and was not that impressed with her... I think any beautiful and smart politician with personality chrisma would be able to give a speech like that...
The thing which bothers me the most is that how she can juggle the job with taking care of so many children in her family (with one who needs special care) and doing the demanding job as VP or even President at the same time... Who is going to set a sound economic policy for this country since neither of them have much experience of economy?
McCain's selection of her also scares me quite some because it says a lot about his personality. I don't know what he is going to do at crisis time. He may gamble again...
I may still vote for McCain/Palin because of personal/family benefit from their policies. But from my heart and for the sake of this country, I believe Obama/Biden is better. I'm kind of stucked/torn in the middle...
I used to support Hillary and was very unhappy about her loss to Obama. Over time, Obama brought me along with his intellgence and policies. - posted on 09/04/2008
I would never ask anybody to vote for or against a particular candidate, but since you mentioned you were a Hillary supporter, and given that Hillary's economical policy and other positions are pretty much identical to Obama's, may I ask you what changed your mind so drastically?
Just curious. ;-)
xy wrote:
I watched Sarah Palin last night and was not that impressed with her... I think any beautiful and smart politician with personality chrisma would be able to give a speech like that...
The thing which bothers me the most is that how she can juggle the job with taking care of so many children in her family (with one who needs special care) and doing the demanding job as VP or even President at the same time... Who is going to set a sound economic policy for this country since neither of them have much experience of economy?
McCain's selection of her also scares me quite some because it says a lot about his personality. I don't know what he is going to do at crisis time. He may gamble again...
I may still vote for McCain/Palin because of personal/family benefit from their policies. But from my heart and for the sake of this country, I believe Obama/Biden is better. I'm kind of stucked/torn in the middle...
I used to support Hillary and was very unhappy about her loss to Obama. Over time, Obama brought me along with his intellgence and policies. - posted on 09/05/2008
I have to admit I'm fond of the Clintons, both Bill and Hillary. I believe she is more qualified with her years in the White House and the Senate.
As for economic policy, a typical Democratic economic policy won't benefit our family, so neither of them is attractive to me. That's why I am almost prepared to vote for McCain until he selected Sarah Palin last Friday. McCain's stubborn and impulsive behavior makes me worry about what he will do when he is elected. He could raise taxes or start another war if he feels needed. These gambles could drag down the whole country. Look at what President Bush did with Iraq War...
Honestly, I like Obama's Denver speech a lot. By watching this guy with his background, his skin color and what he has achieved, I'm moved somewhat by his courage, intelligence and decency. I think I may need to be open-minded and give him a chance...
By the way, I don't like Republican's attack machine and some of their social values such as religion and gun rights bother me...
In addition, our state is NOT one of battleground states. I believe the color of our state is already set, so my vote really does not matter... No worries for McCain voters...
tar wrote:
I would never ask anybody to vote for or against a particular candidate, but since you mentioned you were a Hillary supporter, and given that Hillary's economical policy and other positions are pretty much identical to Obama's, may I ask you what changed your mind so drastically?
Just curious. ;-) - Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/05/2008
Pallin: Iraq war 'a task that is from God'
她要吓死我。
McCain总是说要打赢伊拉克,什么叫打赢?打赢了有什么荣誉?
其实,不管是奇计还是最下计,首先是美人计 :-)
- posted on 09/05/2008
I have done my research on Sen. Obama, maybe this is why he is attracting the most educated progressives in this nation:
Please note the following articles that sum up some of what Barack has “done” in his last 11 years in public office.
His bold legislative work on the Illinois Death Penalty, and how he made a difference between life and death:
http://www.icadp.org/page236.html
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/12/obama.death.pena... /
His sponsorship of a bill that brought health insurance to 150,000, including 70,000 uninsured Children, again, during his time serving in the Illinois Statehouse:
http://factcheck.barackobama.com/factcheck/2007/12/14/f...
http://mediamatters.org/items/200712170003
His work on both the Immigration bill during his time in the US senate and his sponsorship of Ethics legislation (something he did both while in the State House, and in the Senate) that called for some of the most impactful reform regarding lobbyists since Watergate (as he likes to term it):
http://factcheck.barackobama.com/factcheck/2007/12/14/f...
http://feingold.senate.gov/~feingold/releases/07/01/200...
and his sponsored and co sponsored Bills in the U.S. Senate.......which include worthwhile bills dealing with a wide range of issues, from Election reform bills to the Cooperative Proliferation Detection reduction Act (w/t Sen. Lugar) to Internet database transparency Act.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/271 /
http://www.america.gov/st/washfile-english/2005/Novembe...
http://obama.senate.gov/press/060908-senate_passes_c /
http://thomas.loc.gov / (Select Obama’s name from the Senator drop down)
This does not lists all of his accomplishments, nor does it deals with his accomplishments prior to entering elected office.
Here’s a chart of many of his accomplishments during his 8 years in the Illinois state house -
moab wrote:
还是要听其言,观其行。Obama在任期间干了什么事?或者说make了什么change? 他谨小慎微是为了有天能够踏上总统宝座曲线change? I don't buy it. Between him (四平八稳的政客)and a maverick, I pick the latter. At least there will be some change, good or bad aside.
- Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/05/2008
I do believe so.
She could fight her ex-brother-in-law, and she could fight her mother-in-law, ...
pepper wrote:
Your guys way under-estimated Palin. She is more than a pretty face. She has guts and strong wills. - posted on 09/05/2008
You probably had a taste of the democratic attack machine during the Obama-Clinton show-down.
Curious, what state are you in?
xy wrote:
By the way, I don't like Republican's attack machine and some of their social values such as religion and gun rights bother me...
In addition, our state is NOT one of battleground states. I believe the color of our state is already set, so my vote really does not matter... No worries for McCain voters...
- posted on 09/05/2008
tar wrote:
No, neither has done much, therefore one should not promote McCain's experience of achieving "nothing" against Obama's inexperience.
Besides, experience is vastly over-rated, and Senator McCain concurs in choosing Palin. Some of our best presidents are relative new comers. We should however, never again elect a moron to that office.
Experience is "vastly over-rated"? Well, apply this to all candidates. It's simply unfair when experience is over-rated when it comes to Obama vs. McCain while Pallin gets slammed for her "lack of experience".
With Clinton out, McCain is the most experienced candidate. That's a fact.
Do they serve alcoholic drinks at the democratic convention? That could explain it. Obama is a strong candidate, but what makes him shine, his talents, IMHO, has less to do with running a country.It's not like Obama hasn't changed his positions. Palin is the maverick.What now? A card carrying red meat Republican is a maverick against what? Unless you count the rumor that she used to be a secessionist, but they didn't embrace that with open arms did they? I guess drinking too much kool-aid the convention sprays off can seriously impair judgment, no offense. ;-)
That's typical of the political sleight of hand the Republicans are very good at. They are trying to confuse you (not specifically you, but the electorate in general) about managing experience with moral values and upbringing. It was the likes of Giulianis who went up there and propped up her "executive experience" in running a city and a state. Now the size and the complexity of this managerial experience is therefore relevant. By sneaking in the term small town values, irrelevant in runnning a small town, they are desperately trying to change the subject.Hum, that's an interesting comment.
See my above comment. By the way, WSJ is not the fairest journalistic standard one emulates, especailly not after Murdock tookover.What's in that article is transcripts from her speech plus the reporter's comments, which is objective. WSJ has been doing just fine. What is the fairest publication in your mind, by the way?
- Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/05/2008
July这么认真。我比较好奇奥巴马的支持者为什么支持他。 可不可以用一小段话概括一下?
既然问这个问题,我也说为什么我不喜欢他,他的演讲有鼓动性,可我觉他他擅长blahblah不足以说明他胜任。可能还是出于“讷与言,敏于行”的教诲, 加上到目前为止的阅人的经历。最有实力的被干掉了,也从一个方面反映一些问题。 - posted on 09/05/2008
Obama raises $10 million after Palin speech
GOP raises over $1 million since speech
ST. PAUL, Minnesota - Barack Obama's presidential campaign said it raised $10 million Thursday following the Republican National Convention speech by rival John McCain's running mate, Sarah Palin.
Obama spokesman Bill Burton said Palin's address, heavily laced with digs at Obama, prompted an outpouring of donations from more than 130,000 donors.
"We're up over the previous record and the number is still climbing the more Palin's attacks are covered on cable and network news," Obama spokesman Bill Burton said.
- posted on 09/05/2008
我认真地看过他的书,讲演,docs。。。。我就是认为他有洞察力,他对问题的看法准,他的心很真诚。他感动我的并不是他说什么,而是他在很真实地为普通人做事。我喜欢他的softness。
有一次一个记者问他,他最喜欢谁,他说林肯。他说林肯的每句话都是我的心里话,有很多细节,这种话如果不是心里想的,是说不出来的。我还没听过一个人这样说过林肯。
你的想法太中国了。再说,克林顿有很多缺点。我其实非常喜欢Bill Clinton,我一直说他是当代的惠特曼,我现在也喜欢他,但我更相信奥巴马,他自律,做事仔细,比较谦卑。
奥巴马一直在做立法工作,这种工作和日常工作不同。你要评他的实际业绩,也要给他一个机会。
moab wrote:
July这么认真。我比较好奇奥巴马的支持者为什么支持他。 可不可以用一小段话概括一下?
既然问这个问题,我也说为什么我不喜欢他,他的演讲有鼓动性,可我觉他他擅长blahblah不足以说明他胜任。可能还是出于“讷与言,敏于行”的教诲, 加上到目前为止的阅人的经历。最有实力的被干掉了,也从一个方面反映一些问题。 - posted on 09/05/2008
(CBS) The presidential race between Barack Obama and John McCain is now even at 42 percent, according to a new CBS News poll conducted Monday-Wednesday of this week. Twelve percent are undecided according to the poll, and one percent said they wouldn't vote.
This is in contrast to a poll conducted last weekend, where the Obama-Biden ticket led McCain-Palin by eight points, 48 percent to 40 percent.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/04/opinion/polls/main4416798.shtml
--It would be interesting to see how McCain's speech tonight get reflected in the next poll. - posted on 09/05/2008
林肯好像也是有争议的人物。
I give Obama the benefit of doubt. 他哪本书最打动你,我也去找来看看。
Tar 上面说小布什。问题是美国人民给了他机会犯错误,而且是两次。他倒是有机会了,美国遭殃了。
July wrote:
我认真地看过他的书,讲演,docs。。。。我就是认为他有洞察力,他对问题的看法准,他的心很真诚。他感动我的并不是他说什么,而是他在很真实地为普通人做事。我喜欢他的softness。
有一次一个记者问他,他最喜欢谁,他说林肯。他说林肯的每句话都是我的心里话,有很多细节,这种话如果不是心里想的,是说不出来的。我还没听过一个人这样说过林肯。
你的想法太中国了。再说,克林顿有很多缺点。我其实非常喜欢Bill Clinton,我一直说他是当代的惠特曼,我现在也喜欢他,但我更相信奥巴马,他自律,做事仔细,比较谦卑。
奥巴马一直在做立法工作,这种工作和日常工作不同。你要评他的实际业绩,也要给他一个机会。
- Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/05/2008
Some of democratic attack I don't like either, but Rudy Juliani's attack on Wednesday night is unbearable...
My state? trust me, not any state with the slightest hint of battle grounds, not California either...
moab wrote:
You probably had a taste of the democratic attack machine during the Obama-Clinton show-down.
Curious, what state are you in? - Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/05/2008
July wrote:
也喜欢他,但我更相信奥巴马,他自律,做事仔细,比较谦卑。
奥巴马一直在做立法工作,这种工作和日常工作不同。你要评他的实际业绩,也要给他一个机会。
Obama has a big mouth but small hands. Which important law did he help to enact? ZERO. How many times he chose not to vote in senate? 500 times.
- Re: Sarah Palinposted on 09/05/2008
谢谢阿姗。我回头把错字改一改。 每个回帖的标题怎么办? 我好像也带坏了几个同学,不好意思。
Joking about his incapability to spell, my boss always says, "You don't have to be correct, you just need to be consistent". :-)
阿姗 wrote:
不好意思,我把标题改了,是 Palin 不是 Pallin。每天看着错字好难受。 - Re: Sarah Palinposted on 09/05/2008
I have not decided to like Palin or not. Her view is too conservative for me. But I like her track record. Plus, that she managed to become very popoular in a town with a liberal bent (NYTimes) says something about her. - posted on 09/05/2008
Obama is a very calculated politician (there is nothing wrong with it nontheless). When he was an Illinois senator he deliberately avoided many controversial votes so that they wouldn't come back to haunt him when he ran higher office.
In self-promoting his own political career, Obama would not hesitate to play hardball if necessary. Just look at how he ruthlessly edged out Alice Palmer (one of his political patrons) in the state senate race. Even his authorized biographor comments that his acts had "moral complications". Again, there is perhaps nothing wrong with that for a career politicain. But to say that he is a modest and morally principled man requires you to redefine the words "modesty" and "morality".
pepper wrote:
Obama has a big mouth but small hands. Which important law did he help to enact? ZERO. How many times he chose not to vote in senate? 500 times.
- posted on 09/05/2008
Well, apply this to all candidates.
I think finally you've got my point. It was the Republicans who were hammering away Obama's inexperience before they bend out of shape to defend Palin's inexperience. You can't have the cake and eat it too. Either experience is important, which she's only a heartbeat from the presidency literally, or not. You make up your mind which point you want to argue, and I will follow suit. ;-)
Talking about bending out of shape, did you watch last night's Jon Stewart show? His "correspondent" was trying to elicit the word "choice" out of those stiffy convention goers when talking about Palin's pregnant daughter. The length and pain they contort themselves trying to avoid the word is hilarious. How does the Daily Show setting a shining example of journalistic standard sound to you? ;-)
moab wrote:
tar wrote:Experience is "vastly over-rated"? Well, apply this to all candidates. It's simply unfair when experience is over-rated when it comes to Obama vs. McCain while Pallin gets slammed for her "lack of experience".
No, neither has done much, therefore one should not promote McCain's experience of achieving "nothing" against Obama's inexperience.
Besides, experience is vastly over-rated, and Senator McCain concurs in choosing Palin. Some of our best presidents are relative new comers. We should however, never again elect a moron to that office.
With Clinton out, McCain is the most experienced candidate. That's a fact.
Do they serve alcoholic drinks at the democratic convention? That could explain it. Obama is a strong candidate, but what makes him shine, his talents, IMHO, has less to do with running a country.It's not like Obama hasn't changed his positions. Palin is the maverick.What now? A card carrying red meat Republican is a maverick against what? Unless you count the rumor that she used to be a secessionist, but they didn't embrace that with open arms did they? I guess drinking too much kool-aid the convention sprays off can seriously impair judgment, no offense. ;-)
That's typical of the political sleight of hand the Republicans are very good at. They are trying to confuse you (not specifically you, but the electorate in general) about managing experience with moral values and upbringing. It was the likes of Giulianis who went up there and propped up her "executive experience" in running a city and a state. Now the size and the complexity of this managerial experience is therefore relevant. By sneaking in the term small town values, irrelevant in runnning a small town, they are desperately trying to change the subject.Hum, that's an interesting comment.
See my above comment. By the way, WSJ is not the fairest journalistic standard one emulates, especailly not after Murdock tookover.What's in that article is transcripts from her speech plus the reporter's comments, which is objective. WSJ has been doing just fine. What is the fairest publication in your mind, by the way?
- posted on 09/05/2008
xy wrote:
As for economic policy, a typical Democratic economic policy won't benefit our family, so neither of them is attractive to me.
Well, I don't want sound presumptuous but if yours is a typical immigrant family having two professional salaries, then the only possible benefit from any Republican economic plan is a modest tax cut, depending on where your income falls. There might be a small difference (1K?) between Obama's and McCain's tax plan for people making over 300 grand a year but way less than wealthy.
However, the reverse of the trickle down theory is that the government taketh in less, they giveth away less, and that will percolate down to the local level in terms of cutting services. Forget about our social security when we retire, in the near term the local government will raise property taxes to make up the short fall. And you are lucky if it evens out.
You like the Clintons. Bill balanced the budget most of his years in the office. Contrary to that, the Republican presidents, starting from Ronald Reagan all the way down to GWB, have racked up a humongous deficit that we or our children will pay for it in many generations to come. The Republican economic plan consists of three aspects: Tax cut, more tax cut, and yet more tax cut. If you look at the budget, the manatory funding of social secuirty and medicare cut off a big chunk of the pie. No matter how much discretionary fundings get cut, when the pie shrinks, the only way to pay for it is to hike up the deficit. Unless you subscribe to Keynesian economics theory, most sensible economists argue that big unwieldy deficit is detrimental to economic health, if not outright destroys it.
Kevin Phillips, whose Republican bona fide is unassailable, predicts an economic disaster in his book: American Theocracy: The Peril and Politics of Radical Religion, Oil, and Borrowed Money in the 21st Century. The financialization of the American economy reminds him of the empires of the past Spain, the Dutch, the British. It was the same situation when those people faced on the eve of their collapses.
There, in a nutshell, is my accessment of the Republican economic plan. - posted on 09/05/2008
tar wrote:
I think finally you've got my point. It was the Republicans who were hammering away Obama's inexperience before they bend out of shape to defend Palin's inexperience. You can't have the cake and eat it too. Either experience is important, which she's only a heartbeat from the presidency literally, or not. You make up your mind which point you want to argue, and I will follow suit. ;-)Well, apply this to all candidates.
Exactly. Communicate this with the media and those suffering from indigestion of the cake.
As presidential candidate, McCain has more experience than Obama. So Biden is chosen to supposedly fill in the gap. In the case of Palin though, what makes her shine (according to analysts), is not that she's exceptional, but rather, she's ordinary. Before she can be ordinary and relate herself to the female voters, she needs to be put on the ticket. That's politics.
Talking about bending out of shape, did you watch last night's Jon Stewart show? His "correspondent" was trying to elicit the word "choice" out of those stiffy convention goers when talking about Palin's pregnant daughter. The length and pain they contort themselves trying to avoid the word is hilarious. How does the Daily Show setting a shining example of journalistic standard sound to you? ;-)
I don't watch that show, and don't want to. With the plethora of choices out there I tend to not watch the show whose host I don't have a good impression of.
- Re: Sarah Pallinposted on 09/05/2008
moab wrote:
林肯好像也是有争议的人物。
Hmm, care to elaborate? - posted on 09/05/2008
I generally agree with your assessment, but with our family, the situation is a little more complicated than just taxes... They have significant policy difference in the industries we work in...
In addition, I'm usually leaning toward small government and free trade. Other than that, I agree with you regarding budegt deficit issues and that tax cut alone won't do the trick...
tar wrote:
...Well, I don't want sound presumptuous but if yours is a typical immigrant family having two professional salaries, then the only possible benefit from any Republican economic plan is a modest tax cut, depending on where your income falls. There might be a small difference (1K?) between Obama's and McCain's tax plan for people making over 300 grand a year but way less than wealthy.
However, the reverse of the trickle down theory is that the government taketh in less, they giveth away less, and that will percolate down to the local level in terms of cutting services. Forget about our social security when we retire, in the near term the local government will raise property taxes to make up the short fall. And you are lucky if it evens out.
You like the Clintons. Bill balanced the budget most of his years in the office. Contrary to that, the Republican presidents, starting from Ronald Reagan all the way down to GWB, have racked up a humongous deficit that we or our children will pay for it in many generations to come. The Republican economic plan consists of three aspects: Tax cut, more tax cut, and yet more tax cut. If you look at the budget, the manatory funding of social secuirty and medicare cut off a big chunk of the pie. No matter how much discretionary fundings get cut, when the pie shrinks, the only way to pay for it is to hike up the deficit. Unless you subscribe to Keynesian economics theory, most sensible economists argue that big unwieldy deficit is detrimental to economic health, if not outright destroys it.
Kevin Phillips, whose Republican bona fide is unassailable, predicts an economic disaster in his book: American Theocracy: The Peril and Politics of Radical Religion, Oil, and Borrowed Money in the 21st Century. The financialization of the American economy reminds him of the empires of the past Spain, the Dutch, the British. It was the same situation when those people faced on the eve of their collapses.
There, in a nutshell, is my accessment of the Republican economic plan. - posted on 09/05/2008
You are vacillating again. You are trying to argue that it's important that McCain is more experienced than Obama, but not important that Palin is not.
I am saying it is either equally important since McCain is old and has a history of heart problems, therefore Palin can assume the presidency in a heart beat, or not important for either candidate.
Can I elicit a yes or no answer to my question?
As for Jon Stewart and the Daily Show, it was meant to be a joke. Nobody should mistaken it from a real news program, like the O'Reilly Show on Fox. :-)
moab wrote:
tar wrote:Exactly. Communicate this with the media and those suffering from indigestion of the cake.
I think finally you've got my point. It was the Republicans who were hammering away Obama's inexperience before they bend out of shape to defend Palin's inexperience. You can't have the cake and eat it too. Either experience is important, which she's only a heartbeat from the presidency literally, or not. You make up your mind which point you want to argue, and I will follow suit. ;-)Well, apply this to all candidates.
As presidential candidate, McCain has more experience than Obama. So Biden is chosen to supposedly fill in the gap. In the case of Palin though, what makes her shine (according to analysts), is not that she's exceptional, but rather, she's ordinary. Before she can be ordinary and relate herself to the female voters, she needs to be put on the ticket. That's politics.
Talking about bending out of shape, did you watch last night's Jon Stewart show? His "correspondent" was trying to elicit the word "choice" out of those stiffy convention goers when talking about Palin's pregnant daughter. The length and pain they contort themselves trying to avoid the word is hilarious. How does the Daily Show setting a shining example of journalistic standard sound to you? ;-)I don't watch that show, and don't want to. With the plethora of choices out there I tend to not watch the show whose host I don't have a good impression of.
- Re: Sarah Palinposted on 09/05/2008
dup - posted on 09/05/2008
tar wrote:
You are vacillating again. You are trying to argue that it's important that McCain is more experienced than Obama, but not important that Palin is not.
I am saying it is either equally important since McCain is old and has a history of heart problems, therefore Palin can assume the presidency in a heart beat, or not important for either candidate.
McCain's health? It's a valid concern, to some extent. But I don't know how much redundancy we need. Besides there's impeachment option. And I seriously doubt anyone can top Bush in terms of messing things up.
As for Jon Stewart and the Daily Show, it was meant to be a joke. Nobody should mistaken it from a real news program, like the O'Reilly Show on Fox. :-)
Haha, I didn't know the O'Reilly show is a real news program. :-) - posted on 09/05/2008
And I seriously doubt anyone can top Bush in terms of messing things up.
Two things define Bush: he is an ideologue and he is utterly lacking curiosity, especially in the areas he knows nothing about.
Obama is not an ideologue. Far from it, he is a ruthless cut-throat politician. Anyone who thinks of voting for him should go read the profile on New Yorker a couple of weeks ago, you know, the issue where their cover cartoon got them into hot water.
It was not a flattering depiction of him, which chronicled his rise to power through very conventional means, typical of a successful politician. Paradoxically, it made me feel better voting for him. To me, his attraction was never his claim that he is a different kind of politician. To me he is a symbol of progress. Besides that, I want him to practice the time honored middle of the road policies that Bill Clinton trailblazed for the Democrats. And his under the table understanding with the Canadians about trade convinced me that he will not wreck the free trade agreement flowing out from his campaign rhetoric.
And nobody is arguing that he is an idiot either.
As for Palin, she's definitely an ideologue. Whether she is as clueless as Bush about worldly affairs and scientific matters still remains to be seen. Eraly indication is not very promising. Her igonorance on evolution and global warming is disheartening.
moab wrote:
tar wrote:McCain's health? It's a valid concern, to some extent. But I don't know how much redundancy we need. Besides there's impeachment option. And I seriously doubt anyone can top Bush in terms of messing things up.
You are vacillating again. You are trying to argue that it's important that McCain is more experienced than Obama, but not important that Palin is not.
I am saying it is either equally important since McCain is old and has a history of heart problems, therefore Palin can assume the presidency in a heart beat, or not important for either candidate.
As for Jon Stewart and the Daily Show, it was meant to be a joke. Nobody should mistaken it from a real news program, like the O'Reilly Show on Fox. :-)Haha, I didn't know the O'Reilly show is a real news program. :-) - posted on 09/05/2008
Here is the real story: (again, I just try to tell story)
Actually, Palmer endorsed Obama to take her seat but after she failed to win the Congressional seat, she attempted to quickly get back on the state ballot and run against Obama for her vacated senate seat.
Unfortunately, she collected what were proven to be fraudulent signatures- a widespread practice of dirty poltics in Chicago.
If aquiesing to something illegal is what folks would expect Obama to do, then they have got the wrong guy. Sure- it was an awkward situation, but if Palmer wanted to compete, she should have played by the rules.
---------------------------------------------------
passerby wrote:
Obama is a very calculated politician (there is nothing wrong with it nontheless). When he was an Illinois senator he deliberately avoided many controversial votes so that they wouldn't come back to haunt him when he ran higher office.
In self-promoting his own political career, Obama would not hesitate to play hardball if necessary. Just look at how he ruthlessly edged out Alice Palmer (one of his political patrons) in the state senate race. Even his authorized biographor comments that his acts had "moral complications". Again, there is perhaps nothing wrong with that for a career politicain. But to say that he is a modest and morally principled man requires you to redefine the words "modesty" and "morality".
pepper wrote:
Obama has a big mouth but small hands. Which important law did he help to enact? ZERO. How many times he chose not to vote in senate? 500 times.
- posted on 09/05/2008
Here is the real story as told by Chicago Tribune:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-070403obama-ballot,0,1843097.story
"Why say you're for a new tomorrow, then do old-style Chicago politics to remove legitimate candidates?" Askia said. "He talks about honor and democracy, but what honor is there in getting rid of every other candidate so you can run scot-free? Why not let the people decide?"
Please paste HTML code and press Enter.
- moab
- #1 tar
- #2 八十一子
- #3 touche
- #4 SevenStar
- #5 July
- #6 July
- #7 July
- #8 July
- #9 tar
- #10 chloe
- #11 鹿希
- #12 gz
- #13 xy
- #14 3mw
- #15 pepper
- #16 SevenStar
- #17 SevenStar
- #18 July
- #19 July
- #20 touche
- #21 lhc
- #22 chloe
- #23 gz
- #24 July
- #25 gz
- #26 moab
- #27 July
- #28 July
- #29 gz
- #30 moab
- #31 July
- #32 SevenStar
- #33 pepper
- #34 moab
- #35 gz
- #36 moab
- #37 July
- #38 moab
- #39 July
- #40 朱老剑客
- #41 moab
- #42 苦瓜
- #43 SevenStar
- #44 pepper
- #45 touche
- #46 pepper
- #47 a woman
- #48 Batman
- #49 moab
- #50 touche
- #51 chloe
- #52 God
- #53 苦瓜
- #54 a woman
- #55 yc
- #56 chloe
- #57 pepper
- #58 苦瓜
- #59 yc
- #60 a woman
- #61 a woman
- #62 gz
- #63 moab
- #64 gz
- #65 tar
- #66 yc
- #67 moab
- #68 tar
- #69 xy
- #70 tar
- #71 xy
- #72 July
- #73 July
- #74 SevenStar
- #75 moab
- #76 moab
- #77 moab
- #78 July
- #79 July
- #80 moab
- #81 moab
- #82 xy
- #83 pepper
- #84 moab
- #85 pepper
- #86 passerby
- #87 tar
- #88 tar
- #89 moab
- #90 tar
- #91 xy
- #92 tar
- #93 tar
- #94 moab
- #95 tar
- #96 July
- #97 pepper
(c) 2010 Maya Chilam Foundation