1991年,有一个比较十三点的女人给当地Syracuse社区信息中心打了个电话,因为她在喂奶的时候,忽然发现自己春心荡漾,情欲澎湃,从前可没人告诉过她哩。这一个电话不要紧,她进了局子,被定罪后,孩子还被隔离了一年多。有关这个事件,请读如下报道:
On January 12, 1991, Denise Perrigo called a local community volunteer center to ask a question about breast-feeding, checking to see if it was unusual for a mother to become aroused while breast-feeding her child. (Perigo's daughter, Cherilyn, was three years old at the time.) The local community volunteer service referred her to a rape crisis center, where the volunteer she talked to assumed that Perrigo was sexually abusing her daughter. The center phoned the police, who raided Perrigo's house, arrested and jailed her, and gave her daughter to social workers from the Onondaga County Department of Social Services in Syracuse, New York.
Perrigo was interrogated for five hours by the police. She later said that one of the policemen accused her of "having my daughter perform oral sex on me." Perrigo was formally accused of sexual abuse, including "acts of sexual conduct including mouth-to-breast contact." The term breast-feeding was never used.
Perrigo's case went before a local judge the following Monday morning, and the judge threw all charges against her out of court.
But rather than give Cherilyn back to her mother, the Department of Social Services immediately filed another set of charges. The daughter was placed in a foster home. The social workers effectively claimed that Perrigo was a pervert because she was still breast-feeding her three-year-old daughter. Yet, as Dr. Ruth Lawrence, a University of Rochester pediatrician and one of the nation's foremost authorities on breast-feeding, notes, the international average length of nursing is 4.2 years. (One policeman reportedly lectured Perrigo on the night of her arrest that it was "physically impossible to nurse after eighteen months," so she must be nursing for her own gratification.)
The case against Perrigo was heard by a local family court judge three months later--and once again all the charges were thrown out of court.
Yet Cherilyn was kept in foster care, and social workers permitted Perrigo to see her daughter only two hours once every two weeks.
In the following months, Cherilyn was interrogated by social workers and psychologists more than thirty times. Five months later, family court judge Edward McLaughlin again dismissed all charges.
- Re: 一个敏感的禁忌话题 breast-feeding and female orgasmposted on 07/26/2009
这是常识了。女人做爱的时候都喜欢男人吸吮乳房。
婴儿的第一个性对象是自己的母亲 - Re: 一个敏感的禁忌话题 breast-feeding and female orgasmposted on 07/26/2009
那为什么还要定incest 为罪?incest 的边界在哪里?
fanghuzhai wrote:
这是常识了。女人做爱的时候都喜欢男人吸吮乳房。
婴儿的第一个性对象是自己的母亲 - Re: 一个敏感的禁忌话题 breast-feeding and female orgasmposted on 07/26/2009
never had that. baby's sucking is completely diffrent from that of a man. - Re: 一个敏感的禁忌话题 breast-feeding and female orgasmposted on 07/26/2009
MAYA要重新定义“性”才行, 哈哈。
- Re: 一个敏感的禁忌话题 breast-feeding and female orgasmposted on 07/26/2009
我现在每天都喂奶6-7次。小妹妹8周了,我已经喂了她好几百次了。她现在不吃奶瓶,所以我只好亲力亲为。她吃奶的时候,我就拿 iPhone 上咖啡,看玛雅对 breastfeeding 的新领悟。:) 我倒是从没感到“春心荡漾,情欲澎湃”,也没听说过,至少不是普遍现象。喂奶的快感跟性快感是完全不同的。
在一本讲 breastfeeding 的书里看到,作者领养了一个初生婴儿,让孩子吸奶,结果过了一阵子,自己居然有奶了。看来不生孩子也可以享受喂奶的愉悦。玛雅要不要试试? - Re: 一个敏感的禁忌话题 breast-feeding and female orgasmposted on 07/26/2009
阿姗居然闲得发慌,读这些荒诞不经的书。那么奶爸也是可以的,谁都可以的了。
在一本讲 breastfeeding 的书里看到,作者领养了一个初生婴儿,让孩子吸奶,结果过了一阵子,自己居然有奶了。看来不生孩子也可以享受喂奶的愉悦。玛雅要不要试试? - Re: 一个敏感的禁忌话题 breast-feeding and female orgasmposted on 07/26/2009
也许你太normal了。
雪 wrote:
never had that. baby's sucking is completely diffrent from that of a man. - posted on 07/26/2009
interesting questions......
incest罪 is a statutory crime, how is different from asking why Florida prohibits topless walking or running within a 150 foot zone between the beach and the street and NYTransit has ruled that women can ride the city subways topless.
there are places which laws rule that incestuous marriages are legal (AL), oral sex is illegal (CA/FL) and you may not kiss your wife's breasts (FL).
原罪也是人的定义。
maya wrote:
那为什么还要定incest 为罪?incest 的边界在哪里?难道这就是原罪?
fanghuzhai wrote:
这是常识了。女人做爱的时候都喜欢男人吸吮乳房。
婴儿的第一个性对象是自己的母亲 - posted on 07/26/2009
An interesting theme!
There are many outdated state sex laws in the U.S. But most of them are not being enforced. They become historical relics for people to ridicule and laugh. There are quite a few good books describing those funny and obsolete laws out there.
I was about to say more but realized my lack of the necessary qualifications to do so: I don't have the breast or breast-feeding experience involved here.
rzp wrote:
interesting questions......
incest罪 is a statutory crime, how is different from asking why Florida prohibits topless walking or running within a 150 foot zone between the beach and the street and NYTransit has ruled that women can ride the city subways topless.
there are places which laws rule that incestuous marriages are legal (AL), oral sex is illegal (CA/FL) and you may not kiss your wife's breasts (FL).
原罪也是人的定义。
maya wrote:
那为什么还要定incest 为罪?incest 的边界在哪里?难道这就是原罪?
fanghuzhai wrote:
这是常识了。女人做爱的时候都喜欢男人吸吮乳房。
婴儿的第一个性对象是自己的母亲 - posted on 07/26/2009
玛雅报告的那个故事的确很让人气愤。这个国家的社工机构--强奸机构--警察机构合起来就是一个逻辑大混乱。那个女人也真笨。自己有快感就享受吧,告诉别人干什么?
sexually abuse the baby by breast feeding? give me a break.
不懂:社工机构怎么能有那么大的权力?还能反复审问人家?不违法吗?
以前曾经想学社工,幸亏没有,要不然得做多少缺德事。
婴儿没有道德观念。性是本能。在婴儿阶段,性行为还不具有社会含义。
看了这条线,忍不住要想想有人把自己胸前的液体抽出去是什么感觉。也许积压多了恨不得排出去。 如果那样,那就是释放压力的快感,跟撒尿一样。
继续想,把一个娃娃从肚子下面排出去是什么感觉。女人得天独厚,男人就没有这个福气。 - posted on 07/27/2009
我哪里闲得发慌,读荒诞不经的书。这可算是我的专业书了,因为现在我是全职奶牛。我说的这本书是:
The Breastfeeding Book: Everything You Need to Know About Nursing Your Child from Birth Through Weaning by Martha Sears, R.N., and William Sears, M.D.
抄一段给你看:
Where there's a will, there's a way. Yes, you can breastfeed a baby who is not biologically yours. Nipple stimulation will bring in a milk supply, even in women who have never been pregnant, and mother and baby can enjoy the closeness of breastfeeding. This is called induced lactation.
书上又详细写了如何达到这个目标。 - Re: 一个敏感的禁忌话题 breast-feeding and female orgasmposted on 07/27/2009
lao fang indeed is a wierdo.
whoever wants that blessing, take it all.
太太常开玩笑说,有能耐自己也长俩,随便摸,想什么时候摸就什么时候摸。
自己身上长俩,再坚挺也得吓晕过去。
看了这条线,忍不住要想想有人把自己胸前的液体抽出去是什么感觉。也许积压多了恨不得排出去。 如果那样,那就是释放压力的快感,跟撒尿一样。
继续想,把一个娃娃从肚子下面排出去是什么感觉。女人得天独厚,男人就没有这个福气。 - Re: 一个敏感的禁忌话题 breast-feeding and female orgasmposted on 07/27/2009
看MAYA对这题有兴趣,给MAYA一个简单的表格(我自己整理,用来帮助我自己快速记忆的),以便MAYA自己查书进一步了解这题目。
左边:男/女都有
右边:女性
- posted on 07/27/2009
:-) thanks! one should never leave out the time factor in a topic like this.
I was also thinking it was not only legal but biologically "ok" for incestuous marriage in the beginning of the human history.We all come from there, aren't we? -- according to bible. But then it leads us to more dimensions, to the long disputed border of science and faith, etc.
Fengzi wrote:
An interesting theme!
There are many outdated state sex laws in the U.S. But most of them are not being enforced. They become historical relics for people to ridicule and laugh. There are quite a few good books describing those funny and obsolete laws out there.
阿珊说的挺有意思,估计药物也能做到,但感觉will一定要配合。女儿吃奶时我还上班,当时公司没有指定的泵奶房,但是给我用公司Gym的Spa房。公司也算很“妇”道了,过了几年改进更大了,有特定的泵奶房,连父亲都有产假。后来也上了"most admired company to work",我以为如此“妇”道是美国大公司的共同趋向。(又走题了) - Re: 一个敏感的禁忌话题 breast-feeding and female orgasmposted on 07/27/2009
类似的官能刺激因动机的不同,可能产生迥然不同的感觉。
- posted on 07/27/2009
阿姗说话是忠厚的,玛雅总是说阿姗,其实阿姗见识不小的。我昨晚
翻洪堡的书,就是那本大部头“ Humboldt's Cosmos”Pg.67-8:
In the village of Arenas, the chief attraction was a man of Spanish
descent named Francisco Lozano, who had reportedly suckled his child
with his own milk. The child's mother had fallen ill shortly after the birth,
and when the thirty-two-year-old father had held the boy to his breast
to comfort him, he'd had been amazed to see that the irritation of the
sucking had caused thick, very sweet milk to flow. His breasts had grown,
and he had breastfed his son two or three times a day for the next five
months, during which the child had had no other nourishment.
Lozano wasn't in the village when the visitors passed through, but later
the man journeyed to Cumana to give the Europeans a look at him,
along with his son, now thirteen or fourteen years old. Bonpland, who
had trained as a physician, examined the man and found that his breasts
were indeed enlarged and wrinkled, like those of an old woman who had
suckled a child. The left breast was especially prominent, and Lozano
explained that that one had been the more productive.
Though Lozano's case was rare, it wasn't unique. Aristotle and the
Talmud ahd both reported instances of men suckling children, and Humboldt
had heard similar stories from Sussia, Syria, and Ireland. He also recalled
seeing a he-goat in Germany that had produced more milk than any
female. Other human cases were reported throughout the nineteenth and
twentieth centuries, leading medical science to verify that under certain circumstances, stimulation of a man's nipples can in fact cause milk to
flow, just as Humboldt reported in the strange case of Francisco Lozano.
洪堡可是传奇中的科学王子,近代亚里斯多德,达尔文的偶象。
阿姗 wrote:
我哪里闲得发慌,读荒诞不经的书。这可算是我的专业书了,因为现在我是全职奶牛。我说的这本书是:
The Breastfeeding Book: Everything You Need to Know About Nursing Your Child from Birth Through Weaning by Martha Sears, R.N., and William Sears, M.D.
抄一段给你看:
Where there's a will, there's a way. Yes, you can breastfeed a baby who is not biologically yours. Nipple stimulation will bring in a milk supply, even in women who have never been pregnant, and mother and baby can enjoy the closeness of breastfeeding. This is called induced lactation.
书上又详细写了如何达到这个目标。 - Re: 一个敏感的禁忌话题 breast-feeding and female orgasmposted on 07/27/2009
女人做爱的时候都喜欢男人吸吮乳房, 可以吸出奶水吗?
女婴的第一个性对象也是自己的母亲? 所以女婴都是同性恋?
文科生们牵强附会的功夫真让人看了目瞪口呆!
fanghuzhai wrote:
这是常识了。女人做爱的时候都喜欢男人吸吮乳房。
婴儿的第一个性对象是自己的母亲 - Re: 一个敏感的禁忌话题 breast-feeding and female orgasmposted on 07/27/2009
正常生理情况下, 男性不会分泌奶水的。
但是在有些病理情况下, 比如男性秘乳素瘤(Prolactinoma in Male), 有时就会分泌奶水的。 那谁谁谁说的是这种情况吗? - Re: 一个敏感的禁忌话题 breast-feeding and female orgasmposted on 07/27/2009
http://www2.hu-berlin.de/sexology/ATLAS_EN/html/the_sexual_response_in_infants.html
研究表明,婴幼儿确实具有性欲的,这是正常的生理和心理现象。把孩子从摇篮到儿童、少年期的性心理发展普遍分为口欲期、肛欲期、阴茎崇拜期和性沉寂期……
- posted on 07/27/2009
老方这东西是FREUD的, 老的要掉牙了。FREUD的理论, 有些现在还在用, 有些已经不用了。
另外, 对人类个体成长的阶段划分, 除了FREUD的, 还有Erik Erikson的, 以及Jean Piaget的。 FREUD / Erik Erikson / Jean Piaget 三人的分期有部分重叠类似, 也有不同。 目前来说,Erik Erikson / Jean Piaget 的人类个体成长的阶段划分, 比FREUD的更多地被使用。
fanghuzhai wrote:
研究表明,婴幼儿确实具有性欲的,这是正常的生理和心理现象。把孩子从摇篮到儿童、少年期的性心理发展普遍分为口欲期、肛欲期、阴茎崇拜期和性沉寂期……
- Re: 一个敏感的禁忌话题 breast-feeding and female orgasmposted on 07/27/2009
THEORIES ON HUMAN DEVELOPMENT
这儿有三者在时间顺序上的比较的一个简表。(注意, 这些东西在很大程度上都还只是“理论”而已) - Re: 一个敏感的禁忌话题 breast-feeding and female orgasmposted on 03/31/2010
ti - Re: 一个敏感的禁忌话题 breast-feeding and female orgasmposted on 04/01/2010
呵呵,学医的相信处女怀孕。
I will take 文科生们牵强附会的功夫 anyday.
夹缝 wrote:
女人做爱的时候都喜欢男人吸吮乳房, 可以吸出奶水吗?
女婴的第一个性对象也是自己的母亲? 所以女婴都是同性恋?
文科生们牵强附会的功夫真让人看了目瞪口呆!
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