挖了个小说坑没写完,我知到这在网上算是没有坑德。但我真的不知道什么时候才有时间有精力去写勾陈那些旧事。想说的话和要付出的心力都超出了我的预想,那是之所以弃坑的原因。删贴这种事情我也知道很好笑,但是不想一个未完的故事挂在那里示众----要给,也得是个全尸啊。
所以一直觉得应该对这样没坑德又好笑的行为有所补偿。写旁人的故事,总不会有什么错处了。当然仍然是虚构。我也没时间写长,最多写五节,但一定写完。先写了三节。这个故事,就当填了阿比的坑吧,虽然并不是一回事,阿比好歹是个旁观者。
- Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/20/2009
- Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/20/2009
- Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/20/2009
- Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/20/2009
小蜜蜂 wrote:
挖了个小说坑没写完,我知到这在网上算是没有坑德。但我真的不知道什么时候才有时间有精力去写勾陈那些旧事。想说的话和要付出的心力都超出了我的预想,那是之所以弃坑的原因。删贴这种事情我也知道很好笑,但是不想一个未完的故事挂在那里示众----要给,也得是个全尸啊。
咖啡里已经有个不成文的潜规则,就是流行“半途而废”。好多半尸,写到胸部就停止了..... - Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/20/2009
这个坑挖得挺好的,请小蜜蜂继续,务请挖完,先谢了 - Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/20/2009
maya wrote:
咖啡里已经有个不成文的潜规则,就是流行“半途而废”。好多半尸,写到胸部就停止了.....
哈哈,玛雅,不要这样鼓励小蜜蜂嘛,到时她又扔个半尸,我们找你要全尸哈。 - Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/21/2009
多谢楼上几位捧场。不好意思,这次一定写完,争取这个星期完稿。
玛姐:我是咬着牙想写“胸以下”,但一则这是别人的事,二则我还是打小中古典小说的毒太深,肌肤之亲我只能写到这个地步了。细节的事,还是保留给当事人自己吧。你要嘲笑,我也没办法。 - Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/21/2009
这喷嚏要打彻底了。 - Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/21/2009
tugan wrote:
这喷嚏要打彻底了。
你放心,这次是对那个没打完的喷嚏的“雪耻记”。我争取今天下午挤时间写完(好去干正事),晚上一起贴上来。
前面我忘了放题谢了,就应在你这里吧:
“回首往事,我之所以能够厚颜称自己为一个不入流的小说家,全部功劳归于土干。全部责任归于我自己。”
- Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/21/2009
是个同性恋故事?这么个急就章小说,还是耐不住性子,give up。
那个阿比在文中出现很好玩,插科打诨地,很有喜剧发挥余地。
我发现读小说是按自己的框框去套,套套套不住,就没耐心了。;) - Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/21/2009
touche wrote:
是个同性恋故事?这么个急就章小说,还是耐不住性子,give up。
那个阿比在文中出现很好玩,插科打诨地,很有喜剧发挥余地。
我发现读小说是按自己的框框去套,套套套不住,就没耐心了。;)
你一向眼力好,这次也不例外:是耐不住性子。不过可没放弃,我这不忙着雪耻。
几十年的岁月几节就写完,人生可不是一晃眼。 - Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/21/2009
- Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/21/2009
- Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/21/2009
- Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/21/2009
- Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/21/2009
可怜的爱情!
欧阳西一直做梦,以为两个人可以一起说服父母,但显然,丁守柔即便跑到国外,最终还是发现,她不能用她和欧阳西的爱去伤害爱她的家人。
我跟着欧阳西一起愤怒!可恶的家庭,可恶的社会,它要把美丽的东西全都打碎才甘心!拉拉们的日子不知比那些爷们儿哥们儿的艰难多少!真可惜啊!
abee,写点让人高兴的故事好不好?我们重新写这个故事的结尾好不好? - Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/21/2009
得全尸,幸甚!
小蜜蜂 wrote:...... 中国人唢呐一样的感情,撕心裂肺,
唉,这话说得好沉重.
Oh, those green years... - Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/22/2009
I started the story with premonition. My heart leapt up with joy when they came to the US. How sad that they left China far behind, came so close to a life of their choice, but were still crushed by the social constraints back there.
My ex-roommate was from Quebec. She had no trouble with her family but still took years to settle down with a partner. Now they live a bourgeois life in a country house near Geneva:-)
你对感觉的描写真细腻, 分寸也掌握得挺好:-) - Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/22/2009
玛姐:抱歉这是个并不愉快的故事。我就写这一个,雪耻了就好了。
关中:快给玛姐写个男孩子的愉快的年少不知愁滋味的青涩岁月。
星月: 我们每个人都是时代的囚徒。 - Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/22/2009
听到那么大的喷嚏,本来赶忙拿着tissue和抗过敏药l来给小蜜蜂 。没想到自己先用上了。
forbidden 的爱的故事总是让人更加心碎. 爱而不能 ,但我 感到是守柔而不是守柔的父毋是这爱情悲剧的原因。被社会拆散的情侣更赚人眼泪。而人之情感之多变和人性的无奈其实更具悲剧性。 - Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/22/2009
My ex-roommate was from Quebec. She had no trouble with her family but still took years to settle down with a partner. Now they live a bourgeois life in a country house near Geneva:-)
so glad to know that there is a happy story out there.
hey abee, years ago, tiantian and I registered a marriage online in tianya. 天涯。.it caught a lot of attention in shuhua. you can search it in cafe... - posted on 09/22/2009
摇头. 这个maya, 反社会反家庭也不分时机场合. 息怒. 读小说听音乐的心境最好还是要sophisticated. 如果硬要从自己的特定概念和观念出发读别人的东西,那你还不如自己去写一篇.
"可怜的爱情!"是指谁的爱情? 你别搞错啊. 最可怜的应该是丁的丈夫. 对丁来说,"爱人可以放在心里,父母必须侍奉". 他们毕竟还都在她生命的感情世界中有位置. 可她丈夫的位置在哪里呢?
小说没有交代丁守柔的父母家庭.我们最好还是按人之常情常理, 把它理解成多重复的杂的感情冲突的故事好了. 三角的或四方的. 丁对恋人,对父母,对丈夫(尽管小说没有写)的感情都是一种人性表现,一种自然情愫. 人的感情的复杂性和矛盾性往往就在于这些多重感情的冲突. 其悲剧性在于,冲突的结果总有受伤者. 对于这种人性的悲剧,我们最好还是在同情一方的同时,不要脸谱化妖魔化去大骂另一方. 你是读过很多人性复杂和挣扎作品的, 所以对你这次"非文学的反应"提点意见.
小说写得很精练,非常流畅. 但感觉阿比是多余的. 占的篇幅不小, 起的作用就是在解说, 并不是character.倒不如用通过看到丁守柔的日记或者书信或其它什么手段安排来了解丁,从而把阿比从小说中去掉. 丁守柔的塑造也比较弱(所以需要引入一个神通广大的阿比来帮助解说) . 丁在高二说的那句话"爱人可以放在心里,父母必须侍奉". 难以令人信服. 高二,也就16,17岁的小姑娘吧. 在自我独立意识正在萌发,叛逆心理很强的年龄说能那种老道的话,有点不太真实. 但这句话的作用又决定的故事情节.
maya wrote:
可怜的爱情!
欧阳西一直做梦,以为两个人可以一起说服父母,但显然,丁守柔即便跑到国外,最终还是发现,她不能用她和欧阳西的爱去伤害爱她的家人。我跟着欧阳西一起愤怒!可恶的家庭,可恶的社会,它要把美丽的东西全都打碎才甘心!拉拉们的日子不知比那些爷们儿哥们儿的艰难多少!真可惜啊!
abee,写点让人高兴的故事好不好?我们重新写这个故事的结尾好不好? - Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/22/2009
小蜜蜂 wrote:
中国人唢呐一样的感情,撕心裂肺,她给了丁守柔。她原以为丁守柔狠心跺脚撇下了她,现下终于明白,丁守柔一直在看着她。她们在大河的两岸,相顾无言。
(完)
有情人难成眷属的故事。已然是完美的爱情,还能期待更多吗。 - posted on 09/22/2009
"可怜的爱情!"是指谁的爱情? 你别搞错啊. 最可怜的应该是丁的丈夫. 对丁来说,"爱人可以放在心里,父母必须侍奉". 他们毕竟还都在她生命的感情世界中有位置. 可她丈夫的位置在哪里呢?
丁的丈夫哪里可怜,他就是没读好〈恋爱须知〉,谈对象之前没做好背景调查,咖啡的下一代要教育好了哈,未来会是个更加不男不女的时代。
丁的父母也不可怜,他们多管闲事瞎操心。咖啡老一辈人要吸取教训。
小说没有交代丁守柔的父母家庭.我们最好还是按人之常情常理, 把它理解成多重复的杂的感情冲突的故事好了. 三角的或四方的. 丁对恋人,对父母,对丈夫(尽管小说没有写)的感情都是一种人性表现,一种自然情愫. 人的感情的复杂性和矛盾性往往就在于这些多重感情的冲突. 其悲剧性在于,冲突的结果总有受伤者. 对于这种人性的悲剧,我们最好还是在同情一方的同时,不要脸谱化妖魔化去大骂另一方. 你是读过很多人性复杂和挣扎作品的, 所以对你这次"非文学的反应"提点意见.
如果不妖魔化脸谱化,怎么能教育好我们咖啡的老同志们跟下一代?
小说写得很精练,非常流畅. 但感觉阿比是多余的. 占的篇幅不小, 起的作用就是在解说, 并不是character.倒不如用通过看到丁守柔的日记或者书信或其它什么手段安排来了解丁,从而把阿比从小说中去掉. 丁守柔的塑造也比较弱(所以需要引入一个神通广大的阿比来帮助解说) . 丁在高二说的那句话"爱人可以放在心里,父母必须侍奉". 难以令人信服. 高二,也就16,17岁的小姑娘吧. 在自我独立意识正在萌发,叛逆心理很强的年龄说能那种老道的话,有点不太真实. 但这句话的作用又决定的故事情节.
我倒觉得这阿比跟欧阳西该是天仙一对。 - Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/22/2009
写完了,鼓掌。我不觉得结局悲哀。
爱就这么多,不细水长流,不能持久。别管同性还是异性。
这同性恋的话题,我就不知道说什么。我家边上有个公园,是全英同
性恋聚会的场所,最多一次一万人。
小蜜蜂文笔好。这是我的弱项,没法,没受过语言训练。
不过这欧阳西的性格倒是蛮有代表性的。那些自认能干的人,总忽视别人的能力,也感受不到别人的痛苦和真是感受。最后,还抱怨被别人怎么怎么Ta了
- posted on 09/22/2009
爱就这么多,不细水长流,不能持久。别管同性还是异性。
嗨咿大姐,你原来这样悲观啊,我怎么屡战屡败却越来越相信神话?很多年前,老朋友鲁汉曾教我一个爱情数学公式,说是爱就这么多(恒量),你爱多一点,对方就会爱得少一点。那我问他,罗密欧跟朱丽叶谁爱得更多一点呢?是那个先死的还是那个后死的?他说,他们都是十几岁的少年,少年人的爱情总量一般比较多。也就不好比较多少了,但还是有多跟少的。
他后来的那个公式也跟你的一样,爱就这么多,不细水长流悠着点儿,一会儿就用完了。
可我最近又开始相信神话了。love is creation, 那个恒量每天都突破一个极限,每天都有新的玩法跟花样。 - Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/22/2009
看了大家的回复,本来想蛇足一下,写段戏外的解释。后来想想还是算了。
只胡扯一句:爱情本质是利他的,人性本质是利己的,这两者有不可调和的矛盾。一切冲突和悲剧,皆源于此。
谢谢大伙鼓励我写了人生第一个“小说”,我想也是最后一个。
谢谢嘟嘟草叶玛雅阿雪浮生NAMELESS星月关中图教授。
谢谢土干,以及你的喷嚏理论。 - Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/22/2009
小蜜蜂不仅超理性,还是个言情高手啊。
dude,那个阿比最最要紧啊,没有欧阳西和丁守柔(恩,这琼瑶般的名字按英文方式念的话。。。),也得有阿比:)
小蜜蜂可不能就这么封笔了哈,我也胡扯一句:爱情的本质也是利己的,矛盾源于利己的个体在一起如何分别最大化地利己。 - posted on 09/22/2009
只胡扯一句:爱情本质是利他的,人性本质是利己的,这两者有不可调和的矛盾。一切冲突和悲剧,皆源于此。
咱也胡扯一句哈,
"利他的爱情"是阳春白雪的爱情,大多数下里巴人很难体会的。 人性,包括情爱性爱,本质是上都是利己的。如果一个男人知道了那个让他朝思暮想的女人在另一个男人怀里获得幸福,不嫉妒反而为她高兴,那才真是利他了。这种进化过程的漏网者大概不多了。:-)
Oops, 赶紧加一句,上面这个异性恋的例子也可以推广到同性或双性恋。(有这帮人添乱说话都费劲。:-) )
矛盾源于利己的个体在一起如何分别最大化地利己。
在编算法写程序的人眼里,人生的很多问题都是最优化问题。 But I am with you. :-) - Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/23/2009
浮生和关中:你们俩说的都是人性吧。
关中的例子:那男人不高兴是因为人性,而非爱情。
爱情基本是“非人”的,不是内生的,感觉是外星人embed在人体内的东西。外星人是泛指:基督徒可以理解成上帝,佛教徒可以理解成“缘”或“轮回”,万物有灵论者可以理解成“灵”,无神论者可以理解成“化学”,道金斯ist可以理解成基因。
- Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/23/2009
小蜜蜂,我说的就是爱情,当然它是人性的一部分。
利己利他的问题(无关爱情)最近也跟别人争来着,开始疑惑什么是“己”什么是“他”了,需要定义,好像是个resolution的问题。没办法,guanzhong,我只有一把hammer,虽然最优化的目标我是早想好了,可是发现这个目标总在游移 :) - posted on 09/23/2009
浮生 wrote:
小蜜蜂,我说的就是爱情,当然它是人性的一部分。
利己利他的问题(无关爱情)最近也跟别人争来着,开始疑惑什么是“己”什么是“他”了,需要定义,好像是个resolution的问题。
1. 我说人性的本质是利己的,这一点你和关中赞成。所以利己利他在这里不相关,暂时抛开。有兴趣可以令论。
2. 你们说爱情是利己的,因为你们把爱情包括在利己的人性里。你们心中的爱情,拿出纸来画张图:一个圆圈,这是人性,也是爱情。我心中的爱情:一个大圆圈,这是人性;内里一个小圆,这是爱情。爱情是人性大海中的孤岛。利己的人性汹涌时,爱情就不见了(但没有消失,只是被掩盖)。利己的人性退潮时,爱情升起。爱情和人性唇齿相依,但唇不是齿。
这是我的胡扯。你们保留你们的胡扯。爱情本来就千人千面。 - Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/23/2009
小蜜蜂 wrote:
......我心中的爱情:一个大圆圈,这是人性;内里一个小圆,这是爱情。爱情是人性大海中的孤岛。利己的人性汹涌时,爱情就不见了(但没有消失,只是被掩盖)。利己的人性退潮时,爱情升起。爱情和人性唇齿相依,但唇不是齿。
白马非马?:-) - Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/23/2009
楼上诸位与其花费宝贵脑力精力琢磨爱情是咋回事,不如轰轰烈烈的再去恋爱一场、沉迷一把,没有利己利他,没有大小圆圈以及白马非马,眩晕过去就只有天人合一的喜悦。 - Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/23/2009
雪 wrote:
楼上诸位与其花费宝贵脑力精力琢磨爱情是咋回事,不如轰轰烈烈的再去恋爱一场、沉迷一把,没有利己利他,没有大小圆圈以及白马非马,眩晕过去就只有天人合一的喜悦。
哈哈,我帮你分一下行:
从明天起
轰轰烈烈
恋爱,沉迷
没有利己利他
没有大小圆圈以及
白马非马
眩晕过去
天人合一 - posted on 09/23/2009
Maya, you’d better call me grandma, ha…
In my previous reply, I didn’t mean the love from one’s own heart. It’s much easier to talk about your own love. You can love somebody as much or as long as you like. However, it is very difficult to be loved for years by the person whom you love.
One thing is for sure. One shouldn’t be too aggressive and self-admiring. One shouldn’t be hot as fire but be cool as spring water. We may need a shower every day but we don’t need a fire every day.
maya wrote:
No! No! No! This shouldn’t be the last novel from Little Bee. Here is a suggestion. Write a series of episodes, each one a complete story, in which Abee has a small role but an important one, and gives a surprising hint, sophisticated humour or wise conclusion.
Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/23/2009
小蜜蜂 wrote:
在她们两人的爱情中,她注定会是那个一败涂地的人。
所以爱情就是一场博弈?
可是都二十一世纪了,还停留在私下互博的水平,太前工业化了。
想象一下,建一个拉斯韦加斯那样的爱情城,把所有犯爱瘾的都吸引过去,估计就发大了。:)posted on 09/23/2009
行人 wrote:
所以爱情就是一场博弈?
Well, first, theory is a simplification of reality. Game theory is certainly no exception. I do not think love can be simplified. Second, some important assumptions of game theory:
1) actors (players) are autonomous decision makers.
2) actors are rational and will always follow their strategies.
3) actors have a set of options.
4) actors share the common knowledge of game rules.
5) actors know anticipated payoffs.
Love does not meet criteria 2 and 4.
If you are a fan of game theory, there is another concept which is much more appropriate than games to be applied in love: path dependence.
OuYang-Xi and Ding-Shourou are forced to pay an extremely high price to leave the path they select.
可是都二十一世纪了,还停留在私下互博的水平,太前工业化了。
As a social institution, marriage has been evolving, especially for the post-industrialization age. However, love is quite primitive and it cannot be institutionalized. Love is about emotions instead of rationality. Personally, I cherish emotions the most.
想象一下,建一个拉斯韦加斯那样的爱情城,把所有犯爱瘾的都吸引过去,估计就发大了。:)
That will be a deserted paradise.
posted on 09/23/2009
tugan wrote:
Maya, you’d better call me grandma, ha…
No! No! No! This shouldn’t be the last novel from Little Bee. Here is a suggestion. Write a series of episodes, each one a complete story, in which Abee has a small role but an important one, and gives a surprising hint, sophisticated humour or wise conclusion.
hey grandma,
你好厉害。不但会发明打喷嚏理论,还擅长抛青白眼,名士风度啊。
谢谢你的青眼啊。白眼是不是抛给过壹?哈哈。
壹好久不见了,还怪想念的。posted on 09/23/2009
小蜜蜂 wrote:
tugan wrote:hey grandma,
Maya, you’d better call me grandma, ha…
No! No! No! This shouldn’t be the last novel from Little Bee. Here is a suggestion. Write a series of episodes, each one a complete story, in which Abee has a small role but an important one, and gives a surprising hint, sophisticated humour or wise conclusion.
你好厉害。不但会发明打喷嚏理论,还擅长抛青白眼,名士风度啊。
谢谢你的青眼啊。白眼是不是抛给过壹?哈哈。
壹好久不见了,还怪想念的。
就是,我也想壹了。posted on 09/23/2009
小蜜蜂 wrote:
行人 wrote:
所以爱情就是一场博弈?
Well, first, theory is a simplification of reality. Game theory is certainly no exception. I do not think love can be simplified. Second, some important assumptions of game theory:
1) actors (players) are autonomous decision makers.
2) actors are rational and will always follow their strategies.
3) actors have a set of options.
4) actors share the common knowledge of game rules.
5) actors know anticipated payoffs.
Love does not meet criteria 2 and 4.
I wonder if love meets ANY of the criteria. :-)
Finding a suitable woman for wife may be a game, but Love never is.posted on 09/23/2009
gz wrote:
I wonder if love meets ANY of the criteria. :-)
Finding a suitable woman for wife may be a game, but Love never is.
Failure to meet any of the assumptions will lead to disqualification of the application of game theory. That is why I just picked criteria 2 and 4. The more I include in my argument, the more I need to do to defend it. To avoid unnecessary agruments, less is better.
Well, you are correct Sir:). Marriage is a game. That is why the society can write the marriage contract but cannot impose the same kind of thing on love.Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/24/2009
小蜜蜂 wrote:
Well, you are correct Sir:). Marriage is a game. That is why the society can write the marriage contract but cannot impose the same kind of thing on love.
little bee, it is dangerous to generalize like that. just want to correct you, "marriage may be a game".Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/24/2009
小蜜蜂 wrote:
Well, you are correct Sir:). Marriage is a game. That is why the society can write the marriage contract but cannot impose the same kind of thing on love.
little bee, it is dangerous to generalize like that. just want to correct you, "marriage may be a game".posted on 09/24/2009
小蜜蜂 wrote:
Well, first, theory is a simplification of reality. Game theory is certainly no exception. I do not think love can be simplified. Second, some important assumptions of game theory:
......
OuYang-Xi and Ding-Shourou are forced to pay an extremely high price to leave the path they select.
I need to dig out my game theory book from basement before I can say anything about this.
As a social institution, marriage has been evolving, especially for the post-industrialization age. However, love is quite primitive and it cannot be institutionalized. Love is about emotions instead of rationality. Personally, I cherish emotions the most.
想象一下,建一个拉斯韦加斯那样的爱情城,把所有犯爱瘾的都吸引过去,估计就发大了。:)That will be a deserted paradise.
You never know. Practitioner's creativity usually exceeds theorist's imagination. Economists say light house can not be institutionalized, because there is no way the owner could charge passing ships. To their surpirise, private light houses do exist and profitable.
In fact, love can be exploited and has always been, thinking Casanova and a handful of men/women you know. I trust if we could synthesise a good Ding-Shourou substitute and the right scenario, OuYang-Xi would pay any price.Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/24/2009
In fact, love can be exploited and has always been, thinking Casanova and a handful of men/women you know.
Sure, love can be exploited, but the one that's doing the exploiting is not in love.
posted on 09/24/2009
Dear 行人
Your great Lovelandia reminds me of a heartbreaking movie:
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
Totally erasing an ex-lover from one’s memory should be a much easier way to achieve your business goal. :)
Well, we’ve gone so far. Thanks, all you guys. Love for me is more than a journey of exploration and discovery. Although I hurt people who loved me and I was hurt by people I loved, love is the best thing that’s ever happened in my life. And I do think love is the only thing worth living for. Don’t be surprised that I do not choose truth, books, arts, friends, God, and the like---I think human beings just use them to kill time. LOL
Make your love a revolution and wish everyone in here find their true love.
ps: salute to guanzhong. :)
Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/24/2009
小蜜蜂, what is Love then?
据浮生的理论应是自恋:)Then no surprise one put oneself ahead of truth, friends, books, even god:)
posted on 09/25/2009
草叶 wrote:
小蜜蜂, what is Love then?
据浮生的理论应是自恋:)Then no surprise one put oneself ahead of truth, friends, books, even god:)
哈哈。Please don't get offended, please please.
我这里说的爱当然是非常narrow的定义。一个人很可以说他最爱真理,朋友,父母,孩子,人类,地球,动物,上帝,ect, 在一个很广泛的定义上。我并有否定这些。一个人爱情人和爱其余这些也并不冲突啊。更何况,在这些选项冲突的情况下,爱人被牺牲的概率挺大的。
不过不用担心,真爱基本属于rare events, 出现的机会少,和别的选项严重冲突的机率也少。
我前面的话的是从一个非常私人的角度讲的话。更何况,真让大伙来排排序:
金钱,权力,书本,真理,艺术,朋会,父母,兄弟姊妹,孩子,人类,地球,动物,上帝,情人之爱。。。
每个人的排序结果都会很残酷。
我基本认为,一个懂得爱情人的人,才会更懂得爱其他东西。
----------------------
如果浮生说爱是自恋,那是她的定义,不是我的。
Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/25/2009
Like drug addiction, love is a mental, psychological, and possibly physical sickness. Once you fall out of it, you are cured, unless/until you want to fall back in again. :-)Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/25/2009
hey Xingren, please elaborate on this Lovelandia... so all the lovers go to this city to gamble...then what?.. please give all the details... we may build something like this....I LOVE this idea!!!
想象一下,建一个拉斯韦加斯那样的爱情城,把所有犯爱瘾的都吸引过去,估计就发大了。:)Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/25/2009
gz wrote:
Like drug addiction, love is a mental, psychological, and possibly physical sickness. Once you fall out of it, you are cured, unless you want to fall back in it again. :-)
Gee you guys drive me nuts. How come you all hold a negative and utilitarian view toward love? Please be fair to love.Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/25/2009
Gee, who said it was negative, let alone utilitarian? :-)posted on 09/25/2009
Love may only be a word but it represents an "emotional state" that is in balance. This emotional state is blissful and you can feel at one with the universe. Everything is okay and even great. It is a type of peace and zestfulness but the important point is that it FEELS GOOD. Feelings of well-being is promised by governments, religions, books, snake oil medicine men and the others mentioned above but to actually experience the balance of the soul, LOVE would have to be flowing.
Some societies make it difficult to have a normal, loving life of balance which makes it's peoples struggle all the harder. They will run through any rat's maze before them if they think it will lead to balance. And after all the efforts and lifetimes of working hard, digging holes, driving trucks, the goal was right there so simple and far from monetary gains. Love gives us a sense of balance and well-being with the scary world outside ourselves, and also connects our floating souls in a more organic way and once connected (or anchored) to another a sense of security will bath us in feelings of GOOD.Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/25/2009
A bee, No, I am not offended, neither negative nor positive, Just want to like you say" explore and discover" about this topic.
小蜜蜂 wrote:
哈哈。Please don't get offended, please please.
posted on 09/25/2009
父母兄长的爱是呵护,大伙要给孩子的爱也是呵护,也许可以说“最伟大”,比如大家说的“母爱”,无条件付出。但就我自己的经验,这样的爱属于避风港那一类。因为是“呵护”,很多时候和最后的成长阶段是不大相关的。
爱一个非血缘关系以外的人,是学会“爱人”的第一步。就我个人而言,我的成长很大一部分来自于我曾经的爱人们。有很多彼此的伤害,但现在回头看来,我满怀感激,虽然仍有不能释怀的地方。没有那些我过往生命中的人,我不是现在的我。
因为有了爱情的经历,以前觉得理所当然的父母家人的爱,才有了更深的体会。也就是说,爱情的体验加深了血缘的爱。
也因为能够开始爱一个血缘关系以外的人,才有可能谈“爱人如己”,把“爱”推广到一个更广泛的层面。因为我基本觉得,“爱自己”是要在爱情中才能学会的。而“爱己”并不等同于自恋。
我小的时候,我父母极力灌输我类似truth will set you free这样的理念。他们都是搞理工的,相信科学真理的最高价值。所以“真理”对我而言,从很小的时候起,是first priority.
但我后来学了这个专业(违背他们的意愿),我对truth will set you free有我自己的怀疑。这个这里不论。
现在的我,更相信true love will set you free.
posted on 09/25/2009
All addictive things make you feel good, what about withdrawal effect? The pain, anger, disappointment when love is fading?
I believe, like everything else, love has its own life cycle, from its budding to the withering, long or short, we have to face its birth and death peacefully, embrace it when it comes and detach from it when it goes away...
Furthermore, we should not compare love, should not compare Casanova's love and Romeo's love, the love they bestowed to their lovers are all true love...
Love may only be a word but it represents an "emotional state" that is in balance. This emotional state is blissful and you can feel at one with the universe. Everything is okay and even great. It is a type of peace and zestfulness but the important point is that it FEELS GOOD. Feelings of well-being is promised by governments, religions, books, snake oil medicine men and the others mentioned above but to actually experience the balance of the soul, LOVE would have to be flowing.
Some societies make it difficult to have a normal, loving life of balance which makes it's peoples struggle all the harder. They will run through any rat's maze before them if they think it will lead to balance. And after all the efforts and lifetimes of working hard, digging holes, driving trucks, the goal was right there so simple and far from monetary gains. Love gives us a sense of balance and well-being with the scary world outside ourselves, and also connects our floating souls in a more organic way and once connected (or anchored) to another a sense of security will bath us in feelings of GOOD.posted on 09/25/2009
至于爱情,很难定义。它太广大,是我能想到人生可以发生的有数几件最美好的事情之一。
莎士比亚的十四行诗,是我的最爱。选一首贴上来大伙共赏。大家都爱过,为什么说起爱来都好像很世故或者心酸刻薄的样子呢?根据心理学,这算不算自我保护?爱怕了?:)
QUARTO 43:
When most I wink, then do mine eyes best see,
For all the day they view things unrespected;
But when I sleep, in dreams they look on thee,
And darkly bright are bright in dark directed.
Then thou, whose shadow shadows doth make bright,
How would thy shadow's form form happy show
To the clear day with thy much clearer light,
When to unseeing eyes thy shade shines so!
How would, I say, mine eyes be blessed made
By looking on thee in the living day,
When in dead night thy fair imperfect shade
Through heavy sleep on sightless eyes doth stay!
All days are nights to see till I see thee,
And nights bright days when dreams do show thee me.
Re: Shakespeare's sonnet 43posted on 09/25/2009
posted on 09/25/2009
啊~~~这首诗正好是我最疯狂的爱上的那个人送给我的第一首诗。无知的我还以为是他写的,诵读了无数次,而且更加疯狂的爱上他。后来发现是莎士比亚写的,我就疯狂的爱上莎士比亚的 sonnets,细读了每一首,还试尝作曲配乐,包括这一首。后来我发现了大爱(不久前讨论过的),就对小蜜蜂所说的爱情起了平凡心。后来发现还有更加“伟大”的爱。
不过一见到这首诗,我又想起当年的爱情,心潮澎湃啊~~~久违了。
他送我的第二首诗是:
XLVII.
Betwixt mine eye and heart a league is took,
And each doth good turns now unto the other:
When that mine eye is famish'd for a look,
Or heart in love with sighs himself doth smother,
With my love's picture then my eye doth feast,
And to the painted banquet bids my heart;
Another time mine eye is my heart's guest,
And in his thoughts of love doth share a part:
So, either by thy picture or my love,
Thy self away, art present still with me;
For thou not farther than my thoughts canst move,
And I am still with them, and they with thee;
Or, if they sleep, thy picture in my sight
Awakes my heart, to heart's and eyes' delight.
小蜜蜂 wrote:
When most I wink, then do mine eyes best see,
For all the day they view things unrespected;Re: Shakespeare's sonnet 43posted on 09/25/2009
When it comes to love, those who can, make; Those who can't, talk. For the rest of us, watch.
I mean let's watch this new movie that combines love and poetry:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0810784/synopsis
Happy loving! :-)Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/25/2009
唉唉,我说草叶,看到这么多love manifesto你还把我那个谬论拿来,我都不好意思了:)
不过呢,我对“自私”与“自恋”的理解也不是通常意义上的,这个说来话太长了何况我也不都说得清。Suffices to say that there is nothing negative nor cynical about them. Knowing the inner drive takes away the anxiety and leaves one only with those glorious feelings, theoretically of course :)
非常喜欢小蜜蜂的认真,yes,happy loving。
阿姗,给说说那更加“伟大”的爱,另开一线也行。posted on 09/25/2009
Lucy: 谢谢链接。听完了我还拿出书来借机也朗读了一下。:)
阿珊:收获了莎士比亚的爱情,相当美好啊。Q43是莎士比亚十四行诗中的one of the best, 这个你倾心的男人很有眼光啊。
关中:济慈和范妮的事拍成了电影?他俩的事挺不好说的,又是烧信的一对。看完了你先汇报感想我再决定要不要看。最近事情多。
浮生:没有说你是谬论啊。我想我基本了解你说的自私和自恋是什么意思。不过我说的也并不是“leaves one only with those glorious feelings“。爱怎么可能没有伤害焦虑这些东西呢。
还有哪有什么宣言,你别讽刺我。我不过最近这一年人比较心平气和,所以讲到爱情的时候愿意失之天真,干嘛非要戳破我,显得你们都是老油条。LOL
Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/25/2009
小蜜蜂,你的故事可是赚了我的几滴泪的哈,本还想说 象罔对老弗研究透彻,来谈谈老弗的爱的理论。
还是听阿姗的伟大的爱。阿姗, 孩子睡下了,你就来写吧,可惜太远,要不我babysit for you:)
Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/25/2009
maya wrote:
hey Xingren, please elaborate on this Lovelandia... so all the lovers go to this city to gamble...then what?.. please give all the details... we may build something like this....I LOVE this idea!!!
细节?还没想好:)Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/25/2009
小蜜蜂 wrote:
Dear 行人
Your great Lovelandia reminds me of a heartbreaking movie:
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
Totally erasing an ex-lover from one’s memory should be a much easier way to achieve your business goal. :)
记忆分两种,理智记忆和情感记忆。前者像刻在石头上的字,年深日久,慢慢就磨淡了。后者像刻在树上的字,随着岁月会越来越深,越来越大。
爱与恨都是不可能忘记的。Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/25/2009
没好意思承认也掉了几滴泪的!
也等着听阿姗伟大的爱的故事!
草叶 wrote:
小蜜蜂,你的故事可是赚了我的几滴泪的哈,本还想说 象罔对老弗研究透彻,来谈谈老弗的爱的理论。
还是听阿姗的伟大的爱。阿姗, 孩子睡下了,你就来写吧,可惜太远,要不我babysit for you:)
Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/25/2009
如果爱后来转变成了恨,那先前的爱就不是爱,只是你以为那是爱。真爱由己及人,由两人世界而升华为更广的爱。
我喜欢小蜜蜂和阿珊说的。true love will set you free.
行人 wrote:
记忆分两种,理智记忆和情感记忆。前者像刻在石头上的字,年深日久,慢慢就磨淡了。后者像刻在树上的字,随着岁月会越来越深,越来越大。
爱与恨都是不可能忘记的。posted on 09/25/2009
哇,这么多“爱情宣言”!!!看来咖啡盛产爱情专家。。看得我脸红心跳。。。想起大学集体宿舍的夜谈会了。
-----------------------------------
本着多元的精神,add下崔健的爱情宣言,比不上莎诗雅,粗糙而痛快,希望有机会收藏到这一款。
http://www.yue365.com/getgeci/754/8215.shtml
崔健 - 红先生
专辑:给你一点颜色
红先生
如果我走 如果我真走
爱情是否还算数
如果我停留 永远的停留
生命是否还残酷
生活没有你 生活没有你
回家没目的
为了得到爱情 就是为了得到你
出去才是刺激 而不是逃避
我就要走 我就要走
要走
为了得到爱情 就是为了得到你
出去才是刺激 而不是逃避
这首歌 我唱给你
句句都是唱给你
这节奏我留着
他是我的心跳和脚步
歌词像是你 歌曲像是我
他们并非不能分离
若是为了爱情 歌曲算个屁
若是为了生命 爱情算个屁
我就要走 我就要走
要走
Re: 欧阳西 Ouyang Xiposted on 09/25/2009
posted on 09/25/2009
雪妹妹那是糙了點,給個浪漫點的貓王的“only fool rushing in"
Re: 欧阳西 Ouyang Xiposted on 09/25/2009
草叶 wrote:
雪妹妹那是糙了點,給個浪漫點的貓王的“only fool rushing in"
谢maya,草叶。看来草医生不怎么喜欢崔健,我也只是到近来才觉得他好。Re: 欧阳西 Ouyang Xiposted on 09/25/2009
草叶给的猫王的那首can't help falling in love,让我想起电影Paris,Texas里的一句台词:
兄弟俩站在高塔上,那个因为爱迷失在沙漠里的一个说:
I'm not afraid of height. I'm afraid of falling.
看完这电影的,都明白他说的是I'm afraid of falling (in love). 我对这句话印象好深,多少年了都记得。
对应的也有中文版,西厢记里张生看见莺莺说:
我是个多愁多病身,怎当你倾国倾城貌。
这句话真的好美。
posted on 09/25/2009
一定要把爱情进行到底!:-)
Those little propositions in English may make some major differences. e.g., love and in love. You love your parents, siblings, friends, but you are not in love.
When you are in love, a whole spectrum of symptoms may show up, from sleeplessness to craziness, or, put it simply, you get some kind of sickness, mental or physical. But that is exactly why falling in love is so thrilling, and why we are all addicted to it, just like those who are addicted to drugs (nothing negative).
But sooner or later, you will sign a contract and enter some kind of institutionalized and legalized relationship with responsibilities, duties, and blah blah blah, until death do you part. Now all the symptoms are gone, the sickness is cured. You still love, but are you still in love?posted on 09/26/2009
gz wrote:
Those little propositions in English may make some major differences. e.g., love and in love. You love your parents, siblings, friends, but you are not in love.
Ambiguity. Different meanings of the same word are applied to the argument.
But sooner or later, you will sign a contract and enter some kind of institutionalized and legalized relationship with responsibilities, duties, and blah blah blah, until death do you part. Now all the symptoms are gone, the sickness is cured. You still love, but are you still in love?
我不能在这里答你。但我可以说下面的话:
爱侣歧路东西,难免彷徨泣涕,所谓同心而离居,忧伤以终老。但佳偶若得天成,还是要学习一下琴瑟在御,永以朝夕的道理的。说白了,是珍惜。
关中:谢你在这线陪我说话。我有四个字送你:君子怀玉。我一直认为中国最好的男人在唐代。你算有唐风。
----------------------------------
下了一天一夜的雨,再下下去的话,我整个灵魂都要湿掉。这个话题,我的话就到这里吧。
Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/26/2009
蜜蜂的话好深情、好伤感。
Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/26/2009
阿雪,你这哪跟哪啊,存心让我以后没法跟关中说话吗?
你是B型白羊?LOLRe: 欧阳西posted on 09/26/2009
小蜜蜂 wrote:
阿雪,你这哪跟哪啊,存心让我以后没法跟关中说话吗?
你是B型白羊?LOL
抱歉抱歉,我大约上了点年纪,开始爱撮合别人了。。。我把上帖删了好吗?
对了,什么是B型白羊?你呢?
Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/26/2009
雪 wrote:
对了,什么是B型白羊?你呢?
谢谢!
就是B型血啦。大小姐。我告诉过你我是很分裂的那种了。Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/26/2009
小蜜蜂 wrote:
雪 wrote:谢谢!
对了,什么是B型白羊?你呢?
就是B型血啦。大小姐。我告诉过你我是很分裂的那种了。
我是A+。。。你是AB咯?的确够分裂,呵呵。。Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/26/2009
你为什么总让我有要昏倒的冲动?LOL
我和你一样。但我们俩有哪点象?狂笑。Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/26/2009
也许年轻时是你这样。笑。Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/26/2009
小蜜蜂 wrote:
你为什么总让我有要昏倒的冲动?LOL
我和你一样。但我们俩有哪点象?狂笑。
那你的血型一定弄错了!我查到AB型,说得就是你:
“AB型白羊座具有真诚的灵魂、冷静的判断、上进的精神、劳动的身躯、公正无私的操守、追求大我之行动模式——“领导欲”则为其最鲜明的表征。”Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/26/2009
雪 wrote:
那你的血型一定弄错了!我查到AB型,说得就是你:
“AB型白羊座具有真诚的灵魂、冷静的判断、上进的精神、劳动的身躯、公正无私的操守、追求大我之行动模式——“领导欲”则为其最鲜明的表征。”
不会错啦。倒是你有可能错了。哈哈。
这AB型好威,可不是我。这解说词写的也好恐怖:)。Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/26/2009
小蜜蜂 wrote:
也许年轻时是你这样。笑。
啊,敢跟雪大妈飚年纪。你今年要是超过30岁,我立即给玛姐寄欧元。posted on 09/26/2009
雪 wrote:
啊,敢跟雪大妈飚年纪。你今年要是超过30岁,我立即给玛姐寄欧元。
看了这篇“小说”,你还算不出我的年纪?哈哈。
我当然超过30岁。你既然赌的是我的年纪,赌注该我来提。给玛姐捐款那么麻烦,你有真有心寄欧元,UNHCR (联合国难民事务署)今年有个GIMME SHELTER CAMPAIGN (以DRC为核心,但不局限), 你捐到这里吧,也不多,看心意而已,最低25块就可以了(当然多多益善):
http://www.unhcrshelter.org/
宣传短片:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXmxTJnKDM8
谢谢!
PS: 美国朋友有兴趣捐款的话在这里:
https://www.kintera.org/site/c.hjJTJaMQIuE/b.4838537/k.95AC/Gimme_Shelter/apps/ka/sd/donorcustom.asp
Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/26/2009
"欧阳西那辈人,瞧80年代的人老朽,看90年代末的人幼稚。"
我看到这句了,难道是误导。我因此推算你是80末的,要不怎么会瞧80年代的人老朽呢?但请解释一下这80、90是怎么回事。
会去捐款。
Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/26/2009
雪 wrote:
"欧阳西那辈人,瞧80年代的人老朽,看90年代末的人幼稚。"
我看到这句了,难道是误导。我因此推算你是80末的,要不怎么会瞧80年代的人老朽呢?但请解释一下这80、90是怎么回事。
会去捐款。
啊,真的不好意思。我本来是从来不搞派捐这种事的。但是是你主动说要捐的哦:)。谢谢!
我一定言无不尽解释给你听:
看80年代的人老朽,当然我在90年代。80年代末难道不是80年代吗?这个80,90是指大学入学。
Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/26/2009
小蜜蜂 wrote:
看80年代的人老朽,当然我在90年代。80年代末难道不是80年代吗?这个80,90是指大学入学。
鉴于你捐了款,我过意不去,就再详细一点,我是90--92之间入学的。具体我就不说了。够详细了吧,别再问了。
好了。我也算报答了你了。:)
太客气了。虽然没啥钱,但也觉得钱没啥用,要谢谢你告诉我一个让钱有用的渠道。
我还以为是80年代出生呢。那我知道了,咱俩同岁。Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/26/2009
我喜欢小蜜蜂和阿珊说的。true love will set you free.
听说这线好看,先读了跟帖,还没读故事。不管是什么故事,先顶一把上面小蜜蜂和阿珊说的。
玛雅以前好像说过,爱情的话题总是最热门(原话比这说的好,怎说来的?)
关中也说的真好--能爱的,爱;不能爱的,谈;其他人,听听看看。据说,每人一生里最重要的一个人,是自己;最重要的一件事,是爱。爱是超出生死的事,不管是大爱,还是俗爱。Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/27/2009
关中:谢你在这线陪我说话。我有四个字送你:君子怀玉。我一直认为中国最好的男人在唐代。你算有唐风。
小蜜蜂,不客气,陪才女们说话儿本是玩网的最高境界,可遇而不可求。
还你八个字吧: 勤思敏学,蕙质兰心。
唐代就先不去了,我认识的才女都在当代。:-)Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/27/2009
rzp wrote:
关中也说的真好--能爱的,爱;不能爱的,谈;其他人,听听看看。
谢谢翻译,但还可以稍加改进,如果吃透原文精神,把“make” 翻成“做”就更确切了。“谈”字用的妙。:-)Re: 欧阳西posted on 09/27/2009
怕承认现在的失败?So one does not have to answer: what happened to our love:-)
小蜜蜂 wrote:
至于爱情,很难定义。它太广大,是我能想到人生可以发生的有数几件最美好的事情之一。
莎士比亚的十四行诗,是我的最爱。选一首贴上来大伙共赏。大家都爱过,为什么说起爱来都好像很世故或者心酸刻薄的样子呢?根据心理学,这算不算自我保护?爱怕了?:)
posted on 09/27/2009
This is infatuation, not in love :lol:
Being in love brings the best out of us, at least from my limited experience :-).
gz wrote:
一定要把爱情进行到底!:-)
Those little propositions in English may make some major differences. e.g., love and in love. You love your parents, siblings, friends, but you are not in love.
When you are in love, a whole spectrum of symptoms may show up, from sleeplessness to craziness, or, put it simply, you get some kind of sickness, mental or physical. But that is exactly why falling in love is so thrilling, and why we are all addicted to it, just like those who are addicted to drugs (nothing negative).
But sooner or later, you will sign a contract and enter some kind of institutionalized and legalized relationship with responsibilities, duties, and blah blah blah, until death do you part. Now all the symptoms are gone, the sickness is cured. You still love, but are you still in love?posted on 09/27/2009
stellaluna wrote:一天星月乘时间车去旅游,遇到一群思无邪的生猛少男少女。一个少男正说着梦话,“求之不得,辗转反侧”。又有个少女在暗自叹息,“未见君子,忧心忡忡”。星月闻言笑出了声,禁不住朗声说道,“Come on, you guys are not in love, as I don't see any best brought out of you. This is infatuation!" 少男少女们听了就象头顶被人浇了醋,翻然醒悟,感激涕零。少女说“我心则夷”,少男说“钟鼓乐之!” 星月于是心满意足地搭车前往下一个景点盛唐。
This is infatuation, not in love :lol:
Being in love brings the best out of us, at least from my limited experience :-).
谁来接着讲?:-)posted on 09/27/2009
gz wrote:
一天星月乘时间车去旅游,遇到一群思无邪的生猛少男少女。一个少男正说着梦话,“求之不得,辗转反侧”。又有个少女在暗自叹息,“未见君子,忧心忡忡”。星月闻言笑出了声,禁不住朗声说道,“Come on, you guys are not in love, as I don't see any best brought out of you. This is infatuation!" 少男少女们听了就象头顶被人浇了醋,翻然醒悟,感激涕零。少女说“我心则夷”,少男说“钟鼓乐之!” 星月于是心满意足地搭车前往下一个景点盛唐。
盛唐的气质是高歌引剑并芳草断肠。星月到了盛唐,大概要忙着做压酒的吴姬。:)
酒阑总有人散时,同志们啸聚一场,散了吧。笑。
Re: 欧阳西posted on 02/10/2010
咖啡去年下半年小蜜蜂的讨论贴子一直让我受益丰浅。
看小蜜蜂真比养蜂师时候聚缘得多,这也不还是沾着一个“蜜”字。我前不久看过
一部叫The Spirit of Beehive,既科学,又政治,西班牙那时代的,推荐。
小蜜蜂,嗡嗡嗡,飞去了,飞来吧。
原谅我唱不好儿歌。唉,人老了,嗓子也哑了:)
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