这回在尤卡坦半岛,遍访玛雅古迹,最尽兴的还是在Carakmul自然生态保护区:原
始森林中藏满金字塔,这里山不高,森林茂密,高大的树上有猴子。走腻了森林野
径,可以爬玛雅古金字塔,我一口气爬了三座比连的金字塔。塔顶习习生风,看着
爬上来陡峭的石级心中生虚。原始森林一敞平,一直漫延到邻国危地马拉。天空有
几只鹰盘旋着,树冠总有几只小猴要丧命。
森林中有两种猴子,一种吼猴,夜里活动频频,临晨爱吼吼,白天睡大觉。猴子多
居于高大树梢上,一般树还看不上,也是生命层次高,虽然小猴子有鹰危。另一种
是尤卡坦蛛猴,三五成群很好动,吃果子,也与人呼应。而高大树梢睡的吼猴是怎
么呼叫敲打树木眼都不抬一下,有点象树懒(Sloth),但这里不该有。
森林中最显眼的有三种树,有一种是嚼香口糖Chicles,西语叫Chico zapote,男
鞋,树干上有切割树胶的菱痕,山榄科。另一种青杆带刺的,玛雅人的圣树Ceiba
,以后到东海边Playa del Carmen还有一个Parque Ceiba。再有一种也是鲜明的
树干,玛雅语叫作Chaka,我查了一下:Bursera simaruba,橄榄科。
Chicozapote的果实也甘美,中译人心果(sapodilla).
Sacred Mayan Ceiba, 吉贝属
Ceiba这个名字有点乱,按理与中国的木棉(吉贝棉)是一类,但不。广州市花红棉
是木棉属:Bombax ceiba. 我在亚马逊见过最高大的树是Ceiba palendras. 网
上把阿根廷国花赛波花当此,绝对是误会,Ceibo是豆科的。
Yaxche, Tree of Life, 毗连三界,又与北欧的桤树(Ash, Yggdrassil)类似:)
http://www.utopiasprings.com/ceiba.htm
Chaka tree, Bursera simaruba
在Uxmal与Carakmul之间还找到了一个叫Maya Chilam的小镇,估计咖啡标牌玛雅
契兰不是源于是。在Merida的书店看到一本谈Chilam Balam的书,可惜是西语,我
西语的程度读来还有问题。回来再查询Maya Chilam,果然是Maya Chilam Balam
,一套玛雅人的奥义书。我把这一部分1541年西方入侵的预言先图片一下:
一程回来,从炎热的加勒比海滨到积雪漫天的纽约,尚有不适。不是时差上的,身心
依然觉得累,怪梦不断,还以为是沾了古玛雅的灵,夜睡不安,自然白天没劲。随便
涂几个,也是新年第一贴吧,问好咖啡。
- Re: Maya Chilam Balamposted on 01/05/2011
xw 别偷懒:) 写的细致些,一直想去,没有去成。你把行程给流水帐一下,有个借鉴。 - posted on 01/05/2011
唉,这老废。开车很方便,东北海岸会挤一些,西南中的大路都由着你开。交费不交
费的路面都很好,还有一条Uxmal中间穿梭南去Xpujil的路,一般图似未标出来,也
很好!
这玛雅遗址真是遍地开花呀,Chichén Itzá, Uxmal, Edzná, MayaPan, Calakmul
,东边的Tulum, Cobá, etc...就看你怎么走了。但Calakmul一定要去!
261,184路边布满古迹,停车也方便,路上常遇火鸡Ocellated Turkey,Yucatan
Jay, 还有Coati长鼻浣熊。这Coati比北美的胖浣熊能跑多了,不会压着。
西边还有Palenque, 南边危地马拉的Tikal, Quirigua,洪都拉斯Copán有名,都未去
。http://mayaruins.com/yucmap.html - posted on 01/06/2011
回复 #2 xw
唉,这老废。开车很方便,东北海岸会挤一些,西南中的大路都由着你开。交费不交 费的路面都很好,还有一条Uxmal中间穿梭南去Xpujil的路,一般图似未标出来,也 很好! 这玛雅遗址真是遍地开花呀,Chichén Itzá, Uxmal, Edzná, MayaPan, Calakmul ,东边的Tulum, Cobá, etc...就看你怎么走了。但Calakmul一定要去! 261,184路边布满古迹,停车也方便,路上常遇火鸡Ocellated Turkey,Yucatan Jay, 还有Coati长鼻浣熊。这Coati比北美的胖浣熊能跑多了,不会压着。 西边还有Palenque, 南边危地马拉的Tikal, Quirigua,洪都拉斯Copán有名,都未去 。http://mayaruins.com/yucmap.html象兄新年好。快成斯特劳斯了。
- posted on 01/06/2011
青冈新年好!说话悠着点,身在海外,这样说话要闹笑话的:)
说整个尤卡坦半岛没有地上水,当然太追究也不一定确:比如我在Calakmul就见到
一个森林小Pond,在南边开186还见到路边有小沟渠。但大略说来,因为没有高山
,无以流大川。一般内陆居民还是依赖水井,或天然水井,Cenotes。
说到Cenotes,现在也是旅行景点之一,外加岩洞,有的洞中还有古玛雅什物陈列。
我去Cenote还是游泳,跳水。仰在湛蓝的水面上看井口大的天,井口边茂密的植被,
执带根腾悬挂下现,修饰完美的天然井。但在一些历史古迹中,这些井却被人为利
用成扔祭物、人牲尸首之类的,比如奇钦*伊查Chichén Itzá的Cenote Sagrado:
Cenote Sagrado, Chichén Itzá
这是我附近游过泳的Cenote,
Cenote Ik Kil
附近有名的'Cenote Azul',沿路的Cenote不断,服务陈设一流,游泳也这许多讲
究,有如国中:) 但生意清淡,都供服备生们好聊天,消热炎。
Cenote Azul
据说这些森林中的天然湖洞能绕成一个半圆,原是六千五百万年前一颗巨大陨石撞击
地球导致的。就是那一次毁灭地球上恐龙的天灾:
这样我自N年前南非Karoo见识过一回大陨石坑(当时写了冈瓦纳诗)外,又见识的一颗
大陨石。但也说不定,我在东部沿海半圆界外也得知不少Cenotes。看来科学假说也
只是找找符合自己的证据,用Cenote说未必就足够。
但有Cenotes很深,暗底据说有相连,地下河。水是淡的,Cenote Ik Kil有一百英尺
深,跳水无忧,有盲鱼水面游,人探不到底。
Fishes in Cenote Ik Kil
- posted on 01/06/2011
xw wrote:
唉,这老废。开车很方便,东北海岸会挤一些,西南中的大路都由着你开。交费不交
费的路面都很好,还有一条Uxmal中间穿梭南去Xpujil的路,一般图似未标出来,也
很好!
这玛雅遗址真是遍地开花呀,Chichén Itzá, Uxmal, Edzná, MayaPan, Calakmul
,东边的Tulum, Cobá, etc...就看你怎么走了。但Calakmul一定要去!
才查了书上说,261,184那一带密集古迹称Ruta Puuc:
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puuc
Between Mérida and Campeche lies the hilly and fertile Puuc (“hills” in Mayan) region. In the heart of this remote area lie dozens of Mayan ruins, collectively known as La Ruta Puuc (The Puuc Route). In ancient times, between 300 BC and AD 1200, the Mayan cities along La Ruta Puuc were linked...
Read more: http://www.letsgo.com/maps/north-america/mexico/ruta-puuc/#ixzz1AHp245kz
186一路上包括Calakmul称Forest of Kings:)
A stunning array of Maya ruins, strung like pearls along the border of Mexico, Belize, and Guatemala, are known collectively as the "forest of Kings." They can be accessed off the long, straight road between Chetumal in Quintana roo and Escarcega in Campeche. This is a tour for adventurous travelers with a fascination with lost Maya cities.
261,184路边布满古迹,停车也方便,...
Forest of Kings
曾几何时,玛雅人
热雨林劈开一座座王城
阳光如淌血
将热带王国喂养
战事、工事不断
石器时代粗笨的建筑
汗水打造太阳神殿
要鲜血来浇灌
辉煌的城,饥馑
导致人口锐减,森林
乘虚而入--绿色地狱
掩埋宫殿与庙宇
湮没的城,消失
于残留人们子孙的记忆
国王、王国与城名
也忘得一干二净……
石有留痕,传教士
闯人间地狱,开拓过去
对不对?玛雅人称谓
不比印地人更美?
01/07/2011
- Re: Maya Chilam Balamposted on 01/06/2011
听说那里最近不太安全,是真的吗?
xw wrote: - Post deletedposted on 01/07/2011
This post has been deleted by moderator. - Re: Maya Chilam Balamposted on 01/07/2011
liaokang wrote:
玛雅赢了官司。明后天就能出来了。
这是号外喜讯,感谢廖教的辛苦努力!! - posted on 01/07/2011
xw wrote:
唉,这老废。开车很方便,东北海岸会挤一些,西南中的大路都由着你开。交费不交
费的路面都很好,还有一条Uxmal中间穿梭南去Xpujil的路,一般图似未标出来,也
很好!
这玛雅遗址真是遍地开花呀,Chichén Itzá, Uxmal, Edzná, MayaPan, Calakmul
,东边的Tulum, Cobá, etc...就看你怎么走了。但Calakmul一定要去!
261,184路边布满古迹,停车也方便,路上常遇火鸡Ocellated Turkey,Yucatan
Jay, 还有Coati长鼻浣熊。这Coati比北美的胖浣熊能跑多了,不会压着。
西边还有Palenque, 南边危地马拉的Tikal, Quirigua,洪都拉斯Copán有名,都未去
。http://mayaruins.com/yucmap.html
几年前也去过两处玛雅遗址,爬金字塔,下水游泳,现在居然名字都记不清了。我这人脑筋一到户外就打折,佩服xw的闯劲和记忆力! - posted on 01/07/2011
Forest of Kings,相当好的诗名,不小心涂了一首诗,填上去了。
liaokang wrote:
玛雅赢了官司。明后天就能出来了。
也向廖康敬礼。
pengyou wrote:唉,这话说哪里不对?有时我打电话说国内不安全,家人还跟我说纽约不安全。
听说那里最近不太安全,是真的吗?
xw wrote:
实话说,我也不知道。一般太琐碎了,就寸步难行。当年缅甸打内战,印尼闹海啸,
死了那么多人,赋格兄一样去。我一直给孩子看一部西语电影Carol's Journey,西
班牙内战,难民逃难,也有勇敢的国际纵队志愿投入,美有林肯营。Carol的父亲就
是林肯营一名飞行员。
人啊,有时确实太优裕了。
- posted on 01/07/2011
Xw 又马不停蹄地奔波,朝拜去了,有心则灵哦!问候新年好!
也祝玛雅新年平安,好运!
你提到的“猴懒”,是猴獭吧?
曾在亚马逊河丛林里,两岸最高的树杈上,见到过,不知是不是就是这种猴子,当地的导游介绍,这种猴子睡觉也在最高的树杈上,而且是四肢倒吊着,我用望远镜一瞧,果然如此,我惊奇地,怎不会摔下来? 世界上有太多的事想不明白,但想明白了又怎成大千世界!世界是包容一切的,对不!
xw wrote:
森林中有两种猴子,一种吼猴,夜里活动频频,临晨爱吼吼,白天睡大觉。猴子多
居于高大树梢上,一般树还看不上,也是生命层次高,虽然小猴子有鹰危。另一种
是尤卡坦蛛猴,三五成群很好动,吃果子,也与人呼应。而高大树梢睡的吼猴是怎
么呼叫敲打树木眼都不抬一下,有点象树懒(Sloth),但这里不该有。
- posted on 01/08/2011
秋子有意思,我提到的是树懒,你改成猴懒,又给了个獭猴的名,獭猴的名倒不错。
但这Sloth绝不是灵长目(Primate),还是贫齿目(Xenarthra)的:
http://zh.wikipedia.org/zh/%E6%A0%91%E6%87%92
你望远镜看到的一点都不错。但,此猴因食叶,需要大量时间消化,只好成日睡觉,
倒挂树梢。有时因为太懒动了,身上都长满苔藓,但此动物极讲卫生。方便还是下
树进行,悄悄地并将之掩盖掉。也是行慢怕,怕报露身份。
达尔文在南美探访过Giant Sloth的骨架,以前有地生的Sloth,就不好叫树懒了。
哈哈。 - Re: Maya Chilam Balamposted on 01/08/2011
玛雅出来了,刚通过电话,她感谢大家关心,问大家好! - posted on 01/08/2011
嘿,我以为你敲错了“懒”字,自己却敲错了“树”字,这两错,就整出一个对来了。
现在知道,这不是灵长目的猴,想想也是,怎么还这么不进化呢。
xw wrote:
秋子有意思,我提到的是树懒,你改成猴懒,又给了个獭猴的名,獭猴的名倒不错。
但这Sloth绝不是灵长目(Primate),还是贫齿目(Xenarthra)的:
http://zh.wikipedia.org/zh/%E6%A0%91%E6%87%92 你望远镜看到的一点都不错。但,此猴因食叶,需要大量时间消化,只好成日睡觉,
倒挂树梢。有时因为太懒动了,身上都长满苔藓,但此动物极讲卫生。方便还是下
树进行,悄悄地并将之掩盖掉。也是行慢怕,怕报露身份。
达尔文在南美探访过Giant Sloth的骨架,以前有地生的Sloth,就不好叫树懒了。
哈哈。 - Re: Maya Chilam Balamposted on 01/10/2011
玛雅好消息。如果在蒙特雷一定请她吃饭压惊。廖康一定语惊四座。 - posted on 01/19/2011
这条线旷久了,现在也该续续弦。续什么呢?最近我西语课作业把这一行具体理了
一下,鸡毛蒜皮的,幸好是用西语,贴出来也不怕人烦,贴给自己:
La Navidad pasado y Año Nuevo mi familia y yo fuimos a la Península de
Yucatán de vacaciones. Tomamos el avión de Newark a Cancún, se detuvo
en Charlotte, Carolina del Norte. Ni siquiera por un segundo descansamos,
nos dirigimos a Chichén Itzá en el coche de alquiler.
Llegamos a Chichén Itzá en la noche, estuvimos en un hotel llamado Dolores
Alba, con piscina. Después de la cena, fuimos al show de la noche, porque
llegamos tarde, la entrada fue gratis. La pirámide era oscura, pudimos
entender un poco español.
La piscina estaba fría, la maca es buena. Al día siguiente nos fuimos a nadar
en un cenote cercano al hotel, era genial. Visitamos Chichén Itzá más tarde,
caminando entre las columnas, hacía calor. Fuimos a Mérida en la noche.
Estaba lleno de gente, en la plaza, comimos pizza familiar para cenar. Nuestro
hotel en Mérida también se llama Dolores Alba.
Fuimos a Uxmal en camino, era fantástico, caminando entre las pirámides.
Llegamos a Campeche en la noche, hacía viento, caminando en ciudad vieja,
cenamos, nadamos en la piscina. La mañana próxima, fuimos al jardín botánico,
hemos aprendido muchos tipos de plantas y flores, ¡qué bonito!
Viajamos camino 161 a Escárcega para almorzar, descansamos en la playa a
veces. Luego tomamos camino 186, antes de Xpujil, llegamos a nuestro hotel
Debliz. Comimos tortillas en el pueblo, jugamos básquetbol y nadamos en la
piscina. La mañana próxima levantamos temprano a Calakmul, ¡era fantástico!
Vimos monos araña, monos hueco, pavos, un coatí, un tucán, y subimos tres
pirámides. Volvimos al hotel tarde, estuvimos aquí por dos días.
Al día siguiente nos dirigimos a la ruta 186, nos detuvo en Xul-Há para cargar
la gasolina. Recogimos algunos cocos. Luego nos bañamos en Bacalar, Laguna
de Bacalar, nos comimos un gran almuerzo al lado de un árbol gigante llamado
Pichi. Llegamos a Tulum, donde habíamos estado hace tres años en un crucero.
Luego nos fuimos a Playa del Carmen, comimos en Dóminos Pizza para cena.
Fuimos a la mañana siguiente al jardín botánico, aprendimos muchos nombres
de árboles, mayas y científicos. Caminamos en el puente que cuelga y aprendimos
la historia de chicles, un árbol llamado chico zapote, tumbado en las hamacas,
vimos algunas iguanas, mucha diversión. Fuimos a bucear en la tarde a un
pueblo llamado Puerto Morelos, es peligroso, pero muy bueno. Después de
bucear, mamá tenía un dolor de cabeza.
El último día estaba húmedo para ir al zoológico, vimos un montón de monos
araña. Nos tocó la serpiente y cocodrilo, alimentamos los venados. Por cierto,
compramos un regalo, una gran serpiente de cascabel.
====
Pichi, 一棵巨大的豆科树,立在七彩湖边。树上两米处有四五粗壮分支,每一支直径
都粗过一米多,两米。老师读到这里说她八岁就听到过这棵树,今生之愿是死前见之
一回。这让我这个植物迷无意中逮中,也是沿糊从南往北沿湖Laguna de Bacalar找
停车近水滨,头一块可亲近地。
Elephant Ear Tree (English), Piich (Maya)Guanacaste Spanish Enterolobium
cyclocarpum Fabaceae Family. Native to Mesoamerica. Strong long branches,
large majestic thick trunk, when mature the Piich can reach 30-35 meters high,
huge canopy, foliage with double pinnate leaflets. Older Piich trees house many
varieties of wild orchids and bromeliads. Piich trees flower in April and are filled
with exotic deep purple-brown woody seed pods by May. Elephant Ear Tree's
seeds are starchy with a light peanut flavor, very nutritious and filling. Maya
people cooked Piich seeds as snacks (much like pop-corn) and rural Mayan people
process seeds to make flour for tortillas when corn crops are marginal.
http://www.yucatanadventure.com.mx/yucatan-flora.htm
这里有一个录像,讲树上的寄生植物。是另一棵Piich树,正好也有棕榈穿梭:
- posted on 01/21/2011
2012 phenomenon from Chilam Balam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_phenomenon
The Chilam Balam are a group of post-conquest Mayan prophetic histories transcribed in a modified form of the Spanish alphabet. Their authorship is ascribed to a chilam balam, or jaguar prophet.[33] The Chilam Balam of Tizimin has been translated four times in the 20th century, with many disputes over the meaning of its passages. One passage in particular is relevant to the interpretation of the 13th b'ak'tun:
lic u tal oxlahun bak chem, ti u cenic u (tzan a cen/ba nacom)i (ciac/cha') a ba yum(il/t)exe
Maud Worcester Makemson, an archaeoastronomer, believed that this line referred to the "tremendously important event of the arrival of 13.0.0.0.0 4 Ahau 3 Kankin in the not too distant future",[34] Her translation of the line, runs:
Presently B'ak'tun 13 shall come sailing, figuratively speaking, bringing the ornaments of which I have spoken from your ancestors.
Her version of the text continues, "Then the god will come to visit his little ones. Perhaps 'After Death' will be the subject of his discourse." Makemson was still relying on her own dating of 13.0.0.0.0 to 1752 and therefore the "not too distant future" in her annotations meant a few years after the scribe in Tizimin recorded his Chilam Balam.[35] The more recent translation of Munro S. Edmonson does not support this reading; he considers the Long Count almost entirely absent from the book, since the 360-day tun was supplanted in the 1750s by a 365-day Christian year, and a 24-round may system was being implemented.[36] He translates the line as follows:
...like the coming of 13 sail-ships. When the captains dress themselves, your fathers will be taken.[37]
Chilam Balam Tizimin
Other Chilam Balam books contain references to the 13th b'ak'tun, but it is unclear if these are in the past or future; for example, oxhun bakam u katunil (thirteen bakam of k'atuns) in the Chilam Balam of Chumayel.[38] Bolon Yokte' K'uh appears in the Chilam Balam of Chumayel to signify an apparent battle and victory over Spanish invaders.[39]
-----
33.^ Wright 2005, pp. 165–166
34.^ Makemson 1951, p. 219
35.^ Makemson 1951 pp. 30, 217
36.^ Quote: "The b'ak'tun or Long Count dating system does not appear directly in the Tizimin." See Edmonson 1982, xix, also 170, 195.
37.^ Edmonson 1982, 191–192
38.^ Roys, 1967 p. 111; Luxton, 1996 p. 274
39.^ Eberl and Prager 2005, 33–34
- posted on 01/22/2011
xw wrote:
......, 南边危地马拉的Tikal,
正在研究如何去,看到有个一星期的去法,有谁二月中有兴趣一起?危地马拉是现存玛雅人集居最多的地方?
http://www.themayantraveler.com/Guatemala%20Highlands%20and%20Tikal.htm
http://www.authenticmaya.com/tikal1.htm - RE: Maya Chilam Balamposted on 02/08/2011
回复 #18 rzp我也想去! XW的游记这么引人入胜, 其中提到的carakmul是在危地马拉吗?
- posted on 02/08/2011
梦冉讲过了,这哪里是游记?随便记录些资料罢。森林王国Calakmul还是在墨西哥
境内,就在危地马拉边上啦,确实值得一去。Rita说的Tikal也值得去,这两个地方
古代一直争战,小国纷纷站队。那战争名字也有意思,不象上回阿兹特克人说的“花
之战”,这回是“星之战”,美国人好演变成Star wars--“星球大战”。
这星也奇特,世外言金星,西方传统似乎是颗女星,Venus。但在玛雅人那里可是男
神,好战得不得了,不说战争神吧。玛雅人对该星崇拜不已!
我来找找玛雅人字符,Star God,
Lamat – Mayan Glyph of Venus
- RE: RE: Maya Chilam Balamposted on 02/09/2011
回复 #20 xwXW是个玩家,这样的笔记很有吸引力,建议可以出书。:)
- posted on 02/10/2011
这书怎么能出?陪钱不算,卖不出去一本,自己还得忧郁症,何必?
玩家算不上。那英国青年五百英磅能在世界转悠几年,那才是玩家呢。梦冉是常驻
杭州还是北美?依旧有一颗年轻的心。
关于二零一二,我再在这一线下补充几个字,比八十一子那一贴还具体。恐慌的不
必,但人类战乱总是迟早的事。乘着年纪可以多走路,多读书也值:
In the Maya conception, the zero day of this era-based calendar fell
on 13.0.0.0.0 of the Long Count, 4 Ahau 8 Cumku of the Calendar Round,
and on a day when the ninth Lord of the Night was ruling. Once these
day names had been juxtaposed in this way, the calendar was set for
all eternity. All the simultaneous cycles that constituted time would now
simply click forward one day at a time. The next day was 13.0.0.0.1
5 Imix 9 Cumku, with the first Lord of the Night ruling; followed by
13.0.0.0.2 Ik 10 Cumku, second Lord of the Night; and 13.0.0.0.3 7
Akbal 11 Cumku, third Lord of the Night. In our calendar their zero day
corresponds to August 11, 3114 B.c.
Above we talked of the turning of the millennium as one of our own
milestones in time. In the near future Maya time also approaches one of
its great benchmarks. December 23, 2012, will be 13.0.0.0.0 4 Ahau 3
Kankin, the day when the 13 baktuns will end and the Long Count cycles
return to the symmetry of the beginning. The Maya, however, did not
conceive this to be the end of this creation, as many have suggested.
Pacal, the great king of Palenque, predicted in his inscriptions that the
eightieth Calendar Round anniversary of his accession will be celebrated
eight days after the first eight-thousand-year cycle in the Maya calendar
ends. In our time system, this cycle will end on October 15, 4772.
thanks, 梦冉! - posted on 02/17/2011
周末看了一部纪录片,A Place Called Chiapas,才知道朋友所问的一带安全问题。
我一行也没到Tabasco,更未涉及Chiapas。从纪录片看来,那一带游客怕是不让进:
http://www.amazon.com/Place-Called-Chiapas-Samuel-Garc%C3%ADa/dp/B00082ZR6M
这位纽约时报的女记者相当勇敢。里面提到的领头Marcos,虽带面罩,但骑马举红
缨矛枪的架式,真象唐吉诃德。当然他以唐自比,说自己是死了的人,只寻找一个梦。
电影里官方说他是墨西哥城的某大学哲学教授。
有意思的是两件事:1,美加墨经贸自由协定后,一夜之间墨西哥金融崩溃。廉价的
美加物品,尤其是农产品把墨西哥的经济压扁,原住民农业无法存活,这事触发起
事。电影中最有意思的是,Chase Manhattan命令墨西哥政府军迅速剿杀马可斯团
伙,但墨西哥军队不怎么得力。关健还是Marcos应用英特网向世界呼吁,世界各国
媒体的介入。我看grapes of Wrath和Journey of Wind都提到Bank,嗯,银行指
挥军队,Banco的权力是无限的!
2,最让我脑怒的是,墨西歌政府方面的人把Chiapas的玛雅原住民称Chino,中国人。
咖啡里虽然禾子、方壶哉一再避谣玛雅文化与中国商秦等的关联是无籍之谈但墨西哥
政府军确实这么称呼。诈听让我一怒,看了字幕也是。为什么玛雅原住民就是中国人
呢?是不是传统农作,还是Marcos信奉老马。也许西语对中国人就是根性的歧视。
再要提到的是墨西哥金融危机的事,怕人们早已淡忘。一夜之间,Peso贬值千倍,中
产阶级全军覆没。尽管,上层社会与下层都对曾经的中产阶级不齿。
Chiapas conflict
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiapas_conflict
Chiapas, Mexico - posted on 02/17/2011
回复 #23 xw2,最让我脑怒的是,墨西歌政府方面的人把Chiapas的玛雅原住民称Chino,中国人。
咖啡里虽然禾子、方壶哉一再避谣玛雅文化与中国商秦等的关联是无籍之谈但墨西哥
政府军确实这么称呼。诈听让我一怒,看了字幕也是。为什么玛雅原住民就是中国人
呢?是不是传统农作,还是Marcos信奉老马。也许西语对中国人就是根性的歧视。估计跟山海经有关.山海经的东山经最后据说是结束在墨西哥.墨西哥也有跟中国一模一样的五色坛,有关联的遐想该不都是空穴来风吧.
- posted on 02/17/2011
xw wrote:
有意思的是两件事:1,美加墨经贸自由协定后,一夜之间墨西哥金融崩溃。廉价的
美加物品,尤其是农产品把墨西哥的经济压扁,原住民农业无法存活,这事触发起
事。
墨西哥金融危机其来有自。墨西哥政府1980年代开始实行Washington Consensus的经济自由化政策,经济增长,但是贫富分化严重。到1990年代,整个国家的real wages和real minimal wages只分别是1980年代的不足60%和30%,而income concentration进一步集中在最高的两个deciles. 墨西哥是发展中国家,没有办法对经济自由化和全球化过程中的losers提供发达国家能够提供的safety net。Chiapas的原住民是边缘之边缘,那个地方有石油,有木材,还有其它自然资源,但是钱都被墨西哥人拿走了,到造反发生时,当地人连电和running water都没有。马克斯特别用了NAFTA生效的日子造反,message是:全球化已经让我们穷困如此,NAFTA恐怕要让我们贫无立锥之地。 - Re: RE: RE: RE: Maya Chilam Balamposted on 02/17/2011
rzp wrote:
估计跟山海经有关.山海经的东山经最后据说是结束在墨西哥.墨西哥也有跟中国一模一样的五色坛,有关联的遐想该不都是空穴来风吧.
玛雅人不知道。美国我反正是遇到过一个印第安人出租车司机,听说我是中国来的,高兴的说,我(的祖先)也是中国来的。
- posted on 03/07/2011
周末翻了一本书,Llosa的The Language of Passion,里面有篇文章谈到Marcos,题
名The other side of Paradise。Llosa一直对南美的历史政治现象持冷眼的态度,此有
点老瞎子Borges:
Page, 183
http://books.google.com/books?id=XVWhtCoAiEMC&pg=PA183&dq=The+other+side+of+Paradise,+Llosa,+In+his+essay+on+Gandhi,+Was+this+the+case+in+MExico+on+January+1,+1994&hl=en&ei=ngx1Tba1OoGDtgf32tj6Dg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
- posted on 03/09/2011
Blood of Kings最后一章讲Maya Cosmos,最后一节是一个三脚盘,此中有真意:
Chac, tripod plate, Later Classic period, A.D. 600-800, Polychromed ceramic, Diam.
ca. 31cm. by the master of the famous pot from Altar de Sacrificios in Guatemala.
The outside of the large plate is defined as the primordial sea by a water band with
floating water-lily pads and shell scrolls. On the interior, the cosmos spreads out in a
splendid and dramatic realization. The framing border painted along the angled walls
joins together the two halves of existence: in the lower border, the skeletal Maw of
the Underworld encloses bloody water; in the upper half of the border, the Celestial
Monster arches around the rim of the plate forming the dome of heaven.
The central scene on the plate is described in the text as the heliacal rising of Venus
as the Evening Star. The bloody water of Xibalba generates a stream that becomes
the black waters of the Middleworld. Under the water, Xibalbans and the dead go
about their business, some hanging upside down. The Evening Star, here personified
as Chac-Xib-Chac, stands waist deep in the black waters. Holding his ax in one hand,
he gazes at the blood spurting from the stump of his severed left hand. Although we
do not know the meaning of this image, he may have lost it in his struggle to exit
Xibalba, or cut it away himself as an act of self-sacrifice.
When Chac-Xib-Chac pops up through the waters into the Middleworld, he does not
come alone – the World Tree grows from the top of his head. The Tree, with body of
the Vision Serpent. The right branch continues upward to culminate in a
personification head and a large single leaf. On the sarcophagus lid at Palenque, the
branches of the World Tree terminate in bloodletting bowls and personified blood
streams; here, they become the Vision Serpent itself. The Water-lily Juguar, twin
brother of Chac-Xib-Chac, crouches high in the Tree, his arms spread, roaring at the
Celestial Bird, who has been frightened away from his usual perch atop the Tree. The
poor Bird is dripping blood from a wound inflicted by the Jaguar.
This single image encompasses the entire Maya cosmos and synthesizes all of the
imagery that was integral to the lives and functions of kings. It explains the rationale
behind accession, the role of bloodletting, the nature of the vision produced, the
necessity of sacrifice, the inevitability of death and the possibility of renewal. The
Celestial Monster and its journey above the world represent the heavens and the
movement of the stars and planets; the Afterlife and the deadly world of Xibalba lie
below the world. The waters of the earth float up from the bloody waters of the
Underworld where the dead reside before apotheosis. The temporal action depicted is
simply an astronomical event - the first appearance of the Evening Star - bu also, on
a deeper symbolic level, the rise of this star represented kingly activity, the cycle of
human life and a source of social cohesion.
Venus, as Chac-Xib-Chac the Ax-wielder, rises from the sea holding an ax, having
lost one hand to sacrifice. A king can be come Chac-Xib-Chac through scattering and
other sacrificial rites. Kan-Xul exited Xibalba as Chac-Xil-Chac; his name appears in
kingly titles, and he is worn on a chain in the accession costume of kings. The rise of
Chac-Xib-Chac through the water generates the World Tree, and both rise through a
door located in the temple. During his life, the king wears the tree across his loins,
and he falls down its trunk at death. The sap that flows through the tree is blood. On
this vessel, the Tree is transformed into the Vision Serpent brought forth through the
bloodletting with which the king fertilizes the earth.
To the Maya, this plate held a symbolic depiction of the fundamental causal forces of
the universe, exactly as the equation E=mc2 symbolically represents our
understanding of the physical forces that structure our universe. Today, the
appearance of Venus is a simple event explained by orbital mechanics and physical
law. For the Maya, it was neither mechanical nor simple in meaning. Venus was
personified as a living being, just as the sky, the earth and the gateway to Xibalba
were alive. The workings of society, the actions of the king, the behavior of people
of all ranks were irrevocably linked to the movements and activities of these living
entities. The king and ritual action were the means by which humans interacted with
nature to maintain and change this living world. The definition of the human
community in all of its manufestations - from the role of the nobility to the
maintenance of agricultural productions - were rationally explained in a living cosmos
that is dramatically described in this single, powerful image.
如果前面的曼荼罗不好冥想的话。最后这两段文字倒值得沉思,里面涉及到咖啡讨论
的宇宙思维,还引了老列维斯,确实启发人:
At a recent conference conference in Jerusalem, Claude Levi-Strauss spoke of the
art produced by societies like the Maya as encoding their beliefs about the
fundamental structure of reality and of the universe. He made the point that some of
us may spend our lives trying to decipher such art, only to find when we are
successful that their messages were not intended for us. His observations are true
about the Maya. Indeed, we may feel a profound sense of relief that some of the
messages we have examined are not directed at us. Nevertheless, those messages
also speak eloquently of a world now lost, rich with an internal logic and a science of
its own. The living Maya world was filled with sanctity, power and beauty. Blood was
a fundamental substance and most valuable commodity in Maya life; sacrifice held
society together as a cohesive whole and gave meaning to individual lives. Genealogy
and descent were the basis of social order.
To the materialists who work with potsherds, subsistence practices, lithic technology
and settlement patterns, the Maya can only be known through the remains left
scattered through their landscape. To them, the Maya mental life and view of the
world, the Maya conception of what man is and where he fits in the greater universe,
are lost to the obscurity of prehistory. But the dead speak through their art and
architecture: Their material culture was encoded with information about the nature of
the world and the history of man. Although these messages were never intended for
us, they speak across the centuris; once again we can utter the names of their kings
and remember their actions. We do not share their beliefs, but we can perceive that
they believed. And by doing so, we can add their accomplishments and their
perceptions to the human inheritance that we pass on to our children and our
children's children.
The Blood of Kings, P.304-305.
- posted on 03/10/2011
读了不少一些玛雅文化的书,发现玛雅文化与中国古文化几个相似的地方。我无意
论证之间传承什么的,但也不喜欢海华们整天就是避谣打假,自己却不认真读半个
字。当然读进去不容易,打假容易得多,只要摆出我是海华的高恣态即行。这在咖
啡早已有先例,如果人的一生只能去打假,找别人几个错处,那我还能打出上帝耶
和华不守诺言的假呢:就是创世纪,说诺亚后不灭人类了,后来还是灭了所多玛与
蛾摩拉,以后还要灭巴比伦呢。但这世间,有几个人能守得住自己的诺言呢?
最先感触到的是玛雅文化的兔,月兔,月亮上即有一免,此雕塑避画彩陶不少。中
国也有月兔的传说,家喻户晓,此中原委,颇值得一深思。
玛雅文字的象征性,与中国古文字书写,尤其是书法有相接之处。从原始形体到象
型文字必然经历象征化的过程,玛雅人不仅在石头上刻划,也在树皮纸上书写。玛
雅人的纸与中国的纸蛮相似,可惜留书多被兰达主教焚毁掉。幸好科尔特斯留下了
两稿,另加两稿,目前只有四本玛雅Codex。德累斯顿Codex让前苏联Knorozov
解码,过程中就有参照中文字。我读到早先破解玛雅文明的诸多学者都参照中文字
,这个是不言而喻的。不幸的是,此中没有一个中国人。以前咖啡有七格说要投入
,我看没那个心理素质。
玛雅人作画,跟中国古人作画一样,讲究一笔之韵,错了都不改的。此不象西方油
画可以涂改无限次,还可以画上再画。其实玛雅人刻石头,也讲究这个神韵,此不
止画,还有象形字,故而留下的画石文字都特别有韵味。早先Stephan与Cartwood
同行探索玛雅文明,Cartwood作画就画不下去,非得用投影仪方行。那是十九世
纪四十年代,再以前作的画,欧洲风,甚至把大象都画上去了,欧化、美化过重,
精确度不行。再以后照相技术应用了,才有精确的图象。但上世纪一些玛雅学家多
能画出很精确的字符与画形,此是打开破解之重要一步,这个不能不提到Tatiana
Proskouriakoff。
玛雅人作画大凡要灵感状态,管他是喝酒还是放血,故而绘画的想象成份大,有点
程式化,写实不在意,现实普遍都是。有不少玛雅绘画是与神合一状态中的,这有
点象中国的佛教壁画与塑像,不少是禅定状态中,给教徒参照用的。我在重庆大足
石刻,时圆觉师即与我如是说,上面引的老列维斯也如是阐述过这个问题。
不说图腾中的羽蛇与中国的龙图腾相似,就那幻化状态中的图纹,确实与中国青铜
器中的图纹可参照。能悟见多少东西,当然互相可以提示的。
我还见过不少壁刻,上面的人形,再附上几个象形字注解,真让我想到中国著名的
古画竹林七贤图。这种画与文并行的画风,中国画、汉魏刻像石与玛雅画、浮雕确
实异曲同工,都讲究象征性,大小与置位,绝不在乎形似。
有些画图让我想到西藏的唐卡,曼荼罗也许,终究有沉思的功用。
玛雅人立功刻石,也是一挥而就,故而错处会有,错了也不更正,就当作神示。也
许画师会挨宰,但刻石就保留于此一时之风彩。
玛雅人作画使用毛笔,此笔与中国毛笔几乎一样。但刻石,也多是软刻石,故而能
展示人的刀风笔韵。一般人们觉得玛雅留物都那么成熟,比古罗马拉丁刻石优美多
了,都是他们专业画师笔吏们专业训练,讲究激情灵感的艺术之风。
另外玛雅人爱放血,有说是获得一种灵感状态。我更倾向于认为天气炎热,放血是
一种极好的身体平衡,就象女人月经。但也有女人放血,用舌部。男人用根,这个
不解。但别种文化早先都有放血疗治的方式,此不止中国。
- RE: RE: RE: RE: Maya Chilam Balamposted on 03/10/2011
回复 #29 xw另外玛雅人爱放血,有说是获得一种灵感状态。我更倾向于认为天气炎热,放血是
一种极好的身体平衡,就象女人月经。但也有女人放血,用舌部。男人用根,这个
不解。但别种文化早先都有放血疗治的方式,此不止中国。>>>>>请把英文有关这个的引文注解一下,放血、刮痧…都是非常有用的疗法。怎么用舌头放血? - posted on 03/11/2011
舌头割破,还用绳索穿梭,以活血流。这个再给你抄些英文上些图,放血至幻以至人
牲献祭确可以成一贴。
Here is something worth reading:
http://www.mesoweb.com/pari/publications/RT02/Joralemon1974.pdf
This art picture shows beautiful Mayan women piercing them selves in a sacred bloodletting ritual.
Mayan Art
http://library.thinkquest.org/11577/art.htm - posted on 03/14/2012
Lila downs, sale sobrando
xw wrote:
周末看了一部纪录片,A Place Called Chiapas,才知道朋友所问的一带安全问题。
我一行也没到Tabasco,更未涉及Chiapas。从纪录片看来,那一带游客怕是不让进:
http://www.amazon.com/Place-Called-Chiapas-Samuel-Garc%C3%ADa/dp/B00082ZR6M 这位纽约时报的女记者相当勇敢。里面提到的领头Marcos,虽带面罩,但骑马举红
缨矛枪的架式,真象唐吉诃德。当然他以唐自比,说自己是死了的人,只寻找一个梦。
电影里官方说他是墨西哥城的某大学哲学教授。
- RE: Maya Chilam Balamposted on 09/07/2015
Reply xw这个贴的日子都奇诡的,那一天,我在....Jan 5,.2011, 我在哪里?
- RE: Maya Chilam Balamposted on 09/27/2015
- RE: Maya Chilam Balamposted on 09/29/2015
Reply #34 mayacafe这文中"巨大的蜥蜴"怕是Iguana吧?
Green Iguana, 鬣蜥
- RE: Maya Chilam Balamposted on 10/13/2015
- RE: Maya Chilam Balamposted on 10/13/2015
- posted on 03/08/2016
Reply #36 mayacafe吼猴
走进玛雅丛林
金字塔
揭开一座座王城
众王之森林
散布垒垒废墟
树冠上时儿
宏声喧啸,宣布
有这一方领地
无冕之王
或上层公贵
今天,黑吼猴
只在枝桠颠酣睡
怎也唤不醒?
又要说亚马逊雨林
夜听林声之旅:
"一夜疾行,'貘'
泊船黑白河交汇口
听岸上百猴吼涌
金吼、红吼、棕吼猴
会合凌晨欣喜!
"群猴声鼎沸
嘎然静谧…
波荡黑白分水
黎明河上无行船
千鸟缓缓飞"
12/28/10 - RE: Maya Chilam Balamposted on 03/08/2016
Reply #38 xwxw的文章是看出味道了,诗还要慢慢来——这首容易些:)
- RE: Maya Chilam Balamposted on 03/08/2016
Reply #38 xw问好 xw。你的写作风格很独特。
- RE: Maya Chilam Balamposted on 03/09/2016
Reply #40 huan也问好两位!当是写猴参考此线,也符合此线趣味。胡乱就上了一贴。
Thanks
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