回头看，现代流行音乐的主要驱动力是舞蹈性节奏。更广泛地看，这顺应了人和身体解放的现代潮流。
旋律更接近精神，而节奏更接近身体。
太初一定先有节奏，节奏是人体感受时间和运动的方式。
旋律是有声响没有概念的思考。旋律在时间中呈现，因此节奏成为旋律的时间框架。
没有节奏的旋律是不可能的，但节奏可明显可不明显。没有旋律的节奏是可能的。节奏的变化也是音乐语言，但表现力有限，是身体的语言。
以旋律为主导的音乐是精神性的; 以节奏为主导的音乐是身体性的。二元论的分法是危险的，但似乎是现实的。
节奏对旋律的反叛，是现代人反叛的一种形式。最典型的莫过于斯特拉文斯基的<春之祭>。
摇滚乐与传统歌谣抒情歌曲的主要区别便是舞蹈性节奏及其强化。
热爵士便是舞蹈音乐; 凉爵士则是向纯音乐发展的尝试。
爵士乐的兴起是革命性的，这是纯粹自我享乐型的音乐。所以一开始便受到共产党和纳粹国家的禁止。似乎可以说，爵士乐开始了屁股指挥脑袋的现代流行音乐进程。
没有爵士乐，也就没有后来的摇滚乐。
- Re: 鐜颁唬娴佽闊充箰鐨勯┍鍔�posted on 08/10/2005
这篇写得长长短短，大珠小珠，带来的是节奏的还是旋律的兴奋？
除了那半句话，我都喜欢。 - Re: 鐜颁唬娴佽闊充箰鐨勯┍鍔�posted on 08/10/2005
象个论文提纲。说得不错。 - Re: 鐜颁唬娴佽闊充箰鐨勯┍鍔�posted on 08/10/2005
Oh my Lord, Ben Ben dug this two year old crap up. :) Actually it isn't too bad. Obviously I was groping my way through some of the issues that interested me.
Welcome to further the thought. - Re: 鐜颁唬娴佽闊充箰鐨勯┍鍔�posted on 08/10/2005
旋律更接近精神，而节奏更接近身体。
几天前在听一首古琴曲，美国出生的儿子在一旁说“怎么中国音乐听不出节奏啊？”，我一下想到某人N年前说的“非洲的黑人几乎没有旋律感，但节奏感极强”。牛虻的话可以用来解释了。 - Re: 鐜颁唬娴佽闊充箰鐨勯┍鍔�posted on 08/10/2005
音乐本是跟舞蹈紧密相连的。对舞蹈而言节奏就是生命。音乐进入上流社会、尤其是宫廷后，渐渐地和舞蹈脱离开来，节奏越来越不明显，旋律越来越讲究，是不是也是原因？ - Re: 鐜颁唬娴佽闊充箰鐨勯┍鍔�posted on 08/10/2005
我看老虻完全可以把此宏论的题目略改一下，为“现代流行音乐的万有斥力”，更合适些。:-) - Re: 鐜颁唬娴佽闊充箰鐨勯┍鍔�posted on 08/10/2005
无疑，在音乐中，节奏是最基本的。连狗熊都有节奏感。简单、原始的音乐，往往节奏强、突出、少变。只有现代一些严肃音乐，节奏太复杂，甚至连旋律都太难抓住。简单说来，我欣赏的是它们之间的音乐。 - posted on 08/10/2005
_PPM_ wrote:
几天前在听一首古琴曲，美国出生的儿子在一旁说“怎么中国音乐听不出节奏啊？”，我一下想到某人N年前说的“非洲的黑人几乎没有旋律感，但节奏感极强”。牛虻的话可以用来解释了。旋律更接近精神，而节奏更接近身体。
First, there exist beautiful African songs, (check your local music store for putuyama(?) label's world music series) and African American Soul tradition.
Second, nobody does better than African as far as rhythm is concerned. Here you hear people jokingly say white men can't dance. We all have opportunities watching how our black coworkers and etc. move. And we all know the only way Chris Tucker can beat Jakie Chan is with his dance moves in "Rush Hours".
Third, I guess our Han people are heavily Confucianized. Proper demeanor demands graceful movements unperturbed by the bodily rhythm. "Reveal no teeth when smile, show no foot when walk." No wonder. - posted on 08/11/2005
八十一子 wrote:
音乐本是跟舞蹈紧密相连的。对舞蹈而言节奏就是生命。音乐进入上流社会、尤其是宫廷后，渐渐地和舞蹈脱离开来，节奏越来越不明显，旋律越来越讲究，是不是也是原因？
In the beginning, all peoples were very rhythmic, I suspect. Culture and religion made the difference. Soul's life demands libration from body's shackle, listen to the Gregorian Chants.
Kings and queens wanted fun too. So apart from ritual music, they adopted, cultivated, in the case of Louis XIV, created dances, like Gavotte, Minuet and so on. Dance form was very important in the development of Western music. In fact, the sonata form evolved from dance. You can't dance all quicks or all slows. From your grandma's quick-quick-slow came the mother of all classical music forms. :)
When you listen to Miss Ma's beloved Bach, you can hear many merry feet. I have not a single doubt that they originated from folk dances, whether the old man confessed or not. I always love to watch choreographies done to the classical or modern pieces. I sometimes does mine, to the chagrins of musical saints.
One another thought, if you consider musicians dance with their hands and mouths, you have a unified picture. They are dancers, only faster than feet. - posted on 08/11/2005
Chanting indeed sounds highly spiritual, but drumming can sound spiritual too. I guess it all depends on circumstances.
European classic music is no doubt sophisticated in expressing human feelings, but emotion is certainly not its best suit. Latin American music, on the other hand, can make blood boiling.
Once I had a chance to listen to West Indies music, which supposedly is a mixture of African and Mayan (maybe not Mayan but nevertheless indigenous people) music. The drums and long, suppressed chanting resulted in such sadness I had never heard from any music before.
gadfly wrote:
八十一子 wrote:In the beginning, all peoples were very rhythmic, I suspect. Culture and religion made the difference. Soul's life demands libration from body's shackle, listen to the Gregorian Chants.
音乐本是跟舞蹈紧密相连的。对舞蹈而言节奏就是生命。音乐进入上流社会、尤其是宫廷后，渐渐地和舞蹈脱离开来，节奏越来越不明显，旋律越来越讲究，是不是也是原因？
Kings and queens wanted fun too. So apart from ritual music, they adopted, cultivated, in the case of Louis XIV, created dances, like Gavotte, Minuet and so on. Dance form was very important in the development of Western music. In fact, the sonata form evolved from dance. You can't dance all quicks or all slows. From your grandma's quick-quick-slow came the mother of all classical music forms. :)
When you listen to Miss Ma's beloved Bach, you can hear many merry feet. I have not a single doubt that they originated from folk dances, whether the old man confessed or not. I always love to watch choreographies done to the classical or modern pieces. I sometimes does mine, to the chagrins of musical saints.
One another thought, if you consider musicians dance with their hands and mouths, you have a unified picture. They are dancers, only faster than feet. - posted on 08/11/2005
八十一子 wrote:
Chanting indeed sounds highly spiritual, but drumming can sound spiritual too. I guess it all depends on circumstances.
European classic music is no doubt sophisticated in expressing human feelings, but emotion is certainly not its best suit. Latin American music, on the other hand, can make blood boiling.
Once I had a chance to listen to West Indies music, which supposedly is a mixture of African and Mayan (maybe not Mayan but nevertheless indigenous people) music. The drums and long, suppressed chanting resulted in such sadness I had never heard from any music before.
It depends on how the drumming is done. Heard of "evening drums and morning bells"? It calms you down. I have a treasured tape of buddhist music I brought with me 16 years ago. Just the thought of it send me to the tranquil world.
Drums can put you on your feet, dancing bossa nova or marching towards death with the cause the oil men in pinstripe wanted you to believe. :)
There are all music to all moods in the world. - Re: 鐜颁唬娴佽闊充箰鐨勯┍鍔�posted on 10/20/2007
提，touche兄再聊聊。
- Re: 鐜颁唬娴佽闊充箰鐨勯┍鍔�posted on 10/21/2007
这么老的帖子?
woa, cafe是不是要开始文艺复兴了? 顶! 老帖子中有一些关于音乐和诗歌的帖子是不很错.
我想, 民间音乐大都来自舞蹈. 现代流行音乐也可以说就是拥有最大听众的民间音乐, 自然继承了传统民间音乐的那种强调和舞蹈有紧密关系的节奏性.
WOA wrote:
提，touche兄再聊聊。
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