今天是科学史上一个有纪念意义的日子,DNA双螺旋分子结构发现50周年。早上我用google的时候,赫然发现其主页的goole图样有一部分也装饰成了双螺旋,颇为活泼。BBC网页和电视台都举行了一系列热热闹闹的纪念活动,内容非常丰富。BBC4本周有关DNA发现过程和其对半个世纪人类社会文明文化的影响做了深入的探讨,陈演了大量史料和一些不太为人知的所谓竞争黑幕。
今天晚上BBC4的第一个Documentary名为“DNA's Dark Lady”,讲述了在DNA发现过程中,实际完成了主要实验工作但却被与其竞争的发现者们刻意忽视的一位女士,Rosalind Franklin。(http://www.accessexcellence.org/AB/BC/Rosalind_Franklin.html)
Rosalind是一位优秀的分子化学家和实验物理学家,从剑桥毕业,去巴黎做客座研究,1951年返回伦敦King's College的时还很年轻,职位只是一个Research Associate。50年代初,科学界的兴趣和注意力都转移到对人类复制繁衍生理过程的解密上。当时大多数同行都已认为,人的遗传信息应该集中在一个名为“Gene”的东西中,是人类生物进化过程的载体。但人们并不知道它是以什么形式存在,形状为何,工作原理是什么。
Rosalind于是将自己沉浸在实验室中的X光仪器前,利用X-ray crystallography对样本进行分析,并对显微取样进行了大量的拍照处理。可是虽然她非常相信和依赖自己的实验方法,并埋头取得了大量照片和数据,“Gene"的空间形状却始终没有在她的脑子里主动站起来。
而同一时间,在剑桥却有两个相当出色的竞争着,Francis Crick和James Watson,他们并没有像Franklin小姐一样深厚的实验功底,没有相比的实验条件,也没有埋头实验的兴趣,但俩人有出色的想象力。他们每天的研究手段就是打网球放松,喝咖啡对聊,下酒吧在空中笔划。通过各种已知的约束条件,二人其实已经想到并拼凑了一个大致螺旋的结构,但苦于无方法佐证,始终难以再迈进一步。
一个非常有意思的插曲是,他们曾盛情邀请Franklin去剑桥参加有关的讨论,却被她以不屑的口气和精妙的专业术语,将他们的模型驳的体无完肤。这次讨论可以说基本断送了他们之间可能真诚合作的缘份。
终于,有一天,Crick和Watson被同行Wilkins邀请去参观King's College的实验室,就是Franklin工作的地方,而她当时“刚巧”出差在外。谈到双方共同面对的困难,Wilkins当时便"随手"从Franklin的堆混乱的书和文件堆中抽出了一张X光的照片。Crick和Watson当时看了就吃惊的哑口无言,过一段时间,才说“怎么真会这样”。黑白照片上清晰地显示着一个投影后的十字结构。两条交叉的条纹,各自包含些切片,正完全对应于一些双螺旋间的水平键连接。他们立刻做了一个三维模型,投影结果完美无缺地对应于照片的纹理。他们当时就知道,已破解了DNA的分子结构,剩下的工作,只是重复一下别人做过的实验而已。结果于1953年4月25日正式发表。
Franklin回来后,知道了一切。为别人未经她许可擅自出示她的实验结果,大发脾气。她也去看了这个模型,吃惊的无话多说。她被两个年轻的同行给击败了,他们甚至没有给她正式合作的机会。
Fanklin后来离开了国王学院,转到了伦敦另一家学院。再那里,她继续发挥出了出色的才华,成为第一个破解病毒分子结构的科学家,也成为现代感冒病毒研究的先驱,奠定了后来在分子生物学的地位。1958年,Fanklin可能由于过去长期工作在X光下,因癌症去世。
1962年,Crick, Watson和Maurice Wilkins由于确立DNA分子结构而获得诺贝尔生理和医学奖。其后Watson等三人在Nobel奖颁奖典礼上,只有Wilkins的一句话泛泛地提到了Franklin。她被刻意遗忘了很多年。
对于当年究竟是谁未经Fanklin的同意,就私自翻动她的研究资料,并将结果示与他人,用以学术讨论,面对记者的追问,Wilkins如今的回到仍然是,“我记不清了。可能是我,也可能是别人”。而Watson在其有关DNA发现的“经典著作”-- Double Helix一书中,却将Franklin直言不讳地描写成一个易怒、怪僻、自负和“名利心很重”的人,丝毫未想澄清一个简单的事实:他们当时是否看了Fanklin的照片。
DNA的发现是科学史上对人本身及人类社会的理解和影响最重要的发现。DNA后的50年来,对于人这万物之灵的理解,集中在一对似乎是对立的观点上,“Nature or Nuture?”-- 基因决定了人的生物结构,可什么决定了人的mind? 什么决定了人性?又是什么决定了人的个性和精神状态?基因本身,在多大程度上决定了一个人的人性和个性?
基因是确实存在的,这是一个令人惊喜的科学发现。可立刻,人们就感受到了这一科学成果对二战后正待重整的人类社会观的冲击。如果说基因决定了人的主体,人的心理和行为主要由生物生理来决定,那“优种论”就几乎又披上了现代科学的外衣。二战时纳粹的大屠杀促使人们痛苦地反省,这似乎不应该是全部的事实。
人类社会学家Margaret Mead年于二战前在在巴布亚新几内亚的发现,恰好在这时被正式整理发表了出来,似乎给人们带来了解脱。她在一个当地岛上氏族发现,这里是女子出海打鱼,日出而作,日落而息。男子在家带孩子,操持家务。她对此发现感到异常振奋和新鲜。不同种族在隔离状态下独立进化的过程中,由于某些自然因素,可以形成完全不同的社会文化。而其中生长的每个人,都能完全自然地认可和接受这种社会习俗和文化。“人是由文化决定的”,她以科学的方式总结说,“至少文化对于人的影响不亚于其生物生理本身的影响”。(http://www.mead2001.org/Biography.htm)
可是这种理论又似乎难以承受历史和现实的无数测试,“人为什么会时时同类相残?”“为什么战胜者在屠杀后会有疯狂的胜利感和快感?”文化决定论是否能够解释这些。一句话,人类特有的文明文化意识形态冲突,是否能足以导致“人类所特有的”有计划、有预谋的同类相残和屠杀快感?
这个观点也很快被70年代一组野生动物学家的发现给否定了。他们于1974年一月的一天,在坦桑尼亚的Gombe国家公园一处热带丛林中的发现,对于其后的人类社会学研究有着深远的影响。(http://www.curtbusse.com/gombe/)。一群黑猩猩间发生了与人类相近的同类相残事件。几个黑猩猩突然行动,冲入另外一个领地,将其中一只叫Hodi的“部落首领”突然痛殴了15分钟之久,之后持续发出了疯狂的吼叫来表达抑制不住的兴奋,在丛林中上窜下跳来表达发泄和愉悦。Hodi被殴致死后,同样的事件又对它的族群其它猩猩持续发生了好几次,直至那个种群彻底消失灭绝。
原来这种有预谋的同类相撕和其后的兴奋感,不是人类所特有的,也很难以文化的冲突作为藉口。即使完全相同环境里,他们有时也同人类一样地欣赏相互间的残酷攻击。如果有所不同的话,只是人类总能为自己的行动找出神圣和冠冕堂皇的借口。
黑猩猩与人是进化过程中的近亲,我们的基因有99%的相同。人类基因在长期进化的过程中,远古艰难生存而来的自然兽性,在基因中是否能够保存,在多大程度上保存了下来?原来人们以为,通过文明的进步和文化的改良,应该能够将人类人性向“理性”、和“正义”的方向进行系统的改造,假设人们能够理解这些理想的真实概念。可这个后来以科学方式总结和公布的研究结果,加深了人们对自己的怀疑,开始重新审视自己生物属性的根基,人的DNA中的“纯动物”生物编码,至今仍然能在多大程度上决定人的行为、思维和精神?这使人们对于Mead女士之后“文化教育论”的乐观性,产生了怀疑。
于是,Edward Wilson之SocioBiology理论的出现,就似乎又返回了基因的主导地位,以Biology这种“硬科学”来解释人和人类社会的种种现象。他的“残酷”理论自然受到了无数“左派”科学家和以“政治正确”为宗旨的社会活动人事的地毯式轰炸。“可是”,Wilson委屈地说,“科学必须以事实为基础啊?!你是否爱听,那是另一回事吧?!” 不过,Wilson派理论的许多观点后来被证明并不是事实。(http://www.nwc.cc.wy.us/area/waw/2000/eo.html)
人,究竟是Nature的产物,还是Nurture的产物?是先天的,还是后天的?我们的行为、感情、兴趣,爱、仇恨、嫉妒、快乐、性欲倾向等等的一切,更多的受基因的影响,还是文化的影响?
DNA发现后的50年,人类对于自身人性和社会的理解,似乎更深地被吸引到另一条相似的双螺旋的结构上,一条由“基因”与“文化”为主轴构成的双螺旋。这条双螺旋的发展延伸,也许永远构成了人类进化的核心轨迹。我想,这也许是BBC4的另一个电视节目,Double Helix -- DNA years 所要最终表达的思想。
后记:
顺便要说的是,你在英国随便问一个人,“你最喜欢什么电视节目”,答案总应该是“Documentary”,如果大家不开玩笑的话。我时常能看到可说是精品的记录片。基于事实的丰富材料,环环相扣的提问与做答方式,尽量避免政治领域的可笑思路与陈词滥调的标语口号。碰到专业问题,支持人往往是请专业Guru来直接回答讲解。
更重要的是,制作人觉不轻率地下任何结论,绝不武断地将自己的观点强加于观众。他们更善于通过提问的方式来暗示自己的观点,而且用大量正反事实来旁敲侧击地进行迂回佐证。你若在此基础上产生出完全不同的观点理论,或指出他们观点和事实陈述中的疏漏,他们有时会“受宠若惊”回应感谢。对于一个好的制作人而言,他作一个节目,目的不是让观众赞同和欣赏他的观点,而是要通过大量事实的组织,让观众全面尽可能全面了解一个方面的知识与各种观点。
随看随涂,太晚了,睡去了也。留给老板娘打扫吧。:)
- posted on 04/26/2003
大约一个月前,在newsweek上读到过DNA 50年的纪念文章,都提到了Rosalind Franklin。 她长得很美,出身富家,是犹太人,绝顶聪明,但是脾气暴躁,没有人愿意与她合作。这是她的悲剧。
她是上个世纪最杰出的女性之一。
今天在书店,看到一个在英国的作家叫陈健,写了一本书叫《红尘》,只是翻了一下,这个人胆大,有一段是这样的:记者问他,流浪的时候,以什么为生,他说的谋生手段之一是买假的牙齿洁白膏。他用去污粉稀释一百倍就买出去了,100份去污粉当洁齿素就这么买掉了。其他还有好多邪门的东西。我就喜欢看这些烂东西,看了,笑了,知道这天下怪人还不少。
这人现在在英国。可有他的新闻? - posted on 04/26/2003
为 了 谋 生 竟 然 去 做 违 法 乱 纪、 损 人 利 已 的 事 情?! 这 类 自 私 自 利、 道 德 败 坏 的 作 家 能 写 出 什 么 有 益 于 人 类 的 东 西?
这 人 在 英 国 结 果 仍 然 继 续 从 事 这 一 行 的 话, 八 成 已 经 在 牢 里 了。
先 得 做 一 个 真 正 的 人, 才 能 成 为 一 个 真 正 的 作 家。 否 则, 作 家 这 一 职 业, 同 端 盘 子、 修 旧 车 就 没 有 什 么 区 别 了。
> 今天在书店,看到一个在英国的作家叫陈健,写了一本书叫《红尘》,只是翻了一下,这个人胆大,有一段是这样的:记者问他,流浪的时候,以什么为生,他说的谋生手段之一是买假的牙齿洁白膏。他用去污粉稀释一百倍就买出去了,100份去污粉当洁齿素就这么买掉了。其他还有好多邪门的东西。我就喜欢看这些烂东西,看了,笑了,知道这天下怪人还不少。
>
> 这人现在在英国。可有他的新闻? - Re: Double helix -- DNA50年posted on 04/26/2003
是马健.
他是从北京出去的.他以[亮出你的舌苔]驰名.
他的[红尘]在德国的仲维光有长文介绍.刊在苏晓康的民主中国网上.可查. - Re: Double helix -- DNA50年posted on 04/26/2003
原 来 是《 亮 出 你 的 舌 苔 或 空 空 荡 荡》 的 作 者 呀… 不 奇 怪, 不 奇 怪…
zili wrote:
> 是马健.
> 他是从北京出去的.他以[亮出你的舌苔]驰名.
> 他的[红尘]在德国的仲维光有长文介绍.刊在苏晓康的民主中国网上.可查. - Re: Double helix -- DNA50年posted on 04/26/2003
党先生,您不是到这里来做文字监督的吧?刚才给你的email发信,退回来了。请给我发个email: mayacafe@prodigy.net - Re: Double helix -- DNA50年posted on 04/26/2003
我 党 的 一 贯 原 则 是 百 花 齐 放, 加 上 党 员 大 都 文 化 水 平 不 高, 怎 么 能 做文字监督。 我 是 地 下 党, 居 无 定 所, 还 是 这 样 单 线 联 系 得 好。
玛雅 wrote:
> 党先生,您不是到这里来做文字监督的吧?刚才给你的email发信,退回来了。请给我发个email: mayacafe@prodigy.net - Re: Double helix -- DNA50年posted on 07/20/2009
咖啡的搜索挺管用。我都不知道我乱七八糟贴过这么多东西?好在江湖上有很多令胡冲。:) - posted on 07/21/2009
令胡这篇蛮好的,我也一直对英国的Documentary独有情衷。
大约一年前,纽约公共图书馆的科学与生意部里许多BBC的录像都被
处理掉了。换了一批很拉圾的美国录像,当时引起很大争议。我以为
是嫉妒,还以为是否某个中共官僚掌管了这个部门:)
不知道是行贿受贿还是搞保护主义?那些好录影在店里也有售的,我
一直受益不浅。当然,多是录像带,也许是技术原因。
但录像带比DVD耐看,许多图书馆的DVD,一年转借磨损就不能看了
。但录像带,可以看个十年八年,一点问题都没有。
&
令胡怎么后来成了专业口水了呢?我感觉,政治口水网上人事真好写
,我无意之间,一敲就七八段出来,言犹未尽。然而,自然与人文科
学笔记却难,举手投笔之间都得深思,考据。何况是一个新名词,新
地理,新文化的,当然这个与写诗通趣。人说达尔文傻,搞最不投机
的系统生物学,自学地质,还鉴定最麻烦的物种,比如腾壶,不知达
之志趣与心灵感激,大智若愚。
- posted on 07/21/2009
xw wrote:
我感觉,政治口水网上人事真好写
,我无意之间,一敲就七八段出来,言犹未尽。然而,自然与人文科
学笔记却难,举手投笔之间都得深思,考据。何况是一个新名词,新
文化,新地理的,当然这个与写诗通趣。人说达尔文傻,搞最不投机
的系统生物学,自学地质,还鉴定最麻烦的物种,比如腾壶,不知达
之志趣与心灵感激,大智若愚。
网上是偶尔散心开玩笑的地方,岂能当专业去做。当然要找省事的来。要不然岂不是本末倒置。
当然,在现实中,政治和社会问题是大家的交集。是大家有共同语言的东西。不论高低深浅,无论雅俗,谁都可以出来贴一贴。谈政治和社会问题,考究一个人的常识感和看待问题的方式,也是很有意思的事情。网上能学到什么真东西,网友的性格和表达方式对我而言倒更有兴趣一些。:)
达尔文是人间的特例。人类只需要屈指可数的这样几个人。他的东西写得太好,其它人学习就行了。包括中国人也一样。一学就会,并没有差距。但政治和社会问题,谁给你写书呢?管中窥豹,略见一般。看看中文网上谈政治谈社会问题的方式,唉。:) - posted on 07/21/2009
口水坏事啊。三个月五个月人民阵营纠出一个“反革命”,这般趣味
。我跟你说两个例子吧,
头一个是文革前,四清后的吧。当时工作组(组织干部和大学生之流)
住在我们家,宰了一头大肥猪。也好,当时我们家贫下,没什么可抓
的,就培养老爸入党。入党要分派,有下放的老干部,那时据说级别
可大啦,王震级,肖克级的,不具体说了。要么是去揍他们,要么是
暗中保护他们。揍他们可以火线入党,有一个伯伯就去揍了,下午保
护的一派反过来揍,就只好跪在木板上挨尖皮鞋踢。踢死了白搭。虽
然火线混了个党员,后来八九是一点没用。
这一下就把我老爸弄怕了,怎么好入党?虽然,他们暗中也保了不少
,有老干(曾经的老邻居,面子过不去),也有造反的(亲人)。也
就是别人被打得半死给口稀饭吃。那年代兴揍人,揍人得找对象。下
放的地富反坏右,人生地不熟,揍了白揍。到了文革,就愈揍愈烈了
,有海外关系的,偷听敌台的,把毛主席像弄脏的,拿林彪语录擦屁
股的,都群起而攻之。这大人揍人,小孩在学校也不安宁,抓起老师
就揍,抓起成份不好的同学,揍!揍!揍!
前天揍的是梦冉,小A,今天揍的是青冈,明天呢,估计就是你令胡
冲了。
以前过年,总是一家人团聚。说来是和气,总是三天不到头打得不欢
而散。我们家过年三天长辈不兴骂人,这就不得了了。关健还是口水
,生活无聊乏味。大冬天也没有何处去,当地只有一两家小店,文化
生活全无,屋子又窄小,只有一事提精神,就是吵架。平时积怨,小
肚鸡肠,三杯酒下肚,就口水开了,就打开了,一向如此。
我回老家,走访一些乡村,也都有打架的风习。有一次替我接风的酒
席,打翻了十几桌。那些个闹酒疯啊,让我至今记忆犹心。当然他们
打得再烂,第二天就象没事一样。我可是心有余悸!
没有高级的文明,开放的文化,个人心性。这是永久的事情。
阿弥陀佛!
- Re: Double helix -- DNA50年posted on 07/21/2009
哈哈,有道理。:) - Re: Double helix -- DNA50年posted on 07/21/2009
Watson原是美国Human Genome Project的头儿, 不幸的是, 他的[[Race and intelligence]]让他失去了这个位子. Watson最后还是成了政治干预科学的牺牲品.
这事在美国很多人都知道, 怎么这线上竟然没人提? - Re: Double helix -- DNA50年posted on 07/21/2009
共产中国, 和谐社会, 歌舞升平, 哪里有什么不平之事?
都怪咖啡上各位平时积怨,小肚鸡肠,三杯酒下肚,就口水开了,就打开了,一向如此。
为了咖啡的长治久安, 大家都要学令胡诌, 斯斯文文歌颂党中央, 恶恨恨诅咒党中央枪下冤鬼. 否则, 你就是文革四清打砸抢匪徒.
xw wrote: - posted on 07/21/2009
XW:
After 令胡冲, don't know whether it would be you for the next...
Please see the pounding you have got from commenting on 艾未未's article. For a short comment of yours, look at what you have got so far...
I respect you a great deal for your knowledge and what you have done for cafe over the years. Just wondering though: does mayacafe really want to become another forum representing the so-called oversea democratic movement? or remaining as an independent forum?
Sincerely,
xw wrote:
前天揍的是梦冉,小A,今天揍的是青冈,明天呢,估计就是你令胡
冲了。
- posted on 07/21/2009
Are you still monitoring and informing?
What kind of thug would do this kind of dirty job?
xy wrote:
XW:
After 令胡冲, don't know whether it would be you for the next...
Please see the pounding you have got from commenting on 艾未未's article. For a short comment of yours, look at what you have got so far...
I respect you a great deal for your knowledge and what you have done for cafe over the years. Just wondering though: does mayacafe really want to become another forum representing the so-called oversea democratic movement? or remaining as an independent forum?
Sincerely,
xw wrote:
前天揍的是梦冉,小A,今天揍的是青冈,明天呢,估计就是你令胡
冲了。
- Re: Double helix -- DNA50年posted on 07/21/2009
xy wrote:
I respect you a great deal for your knowledge and what you have done for cafe over the years. Just wondering though: does mayacafe really want to become another forum representing the so-called oversea democratic movement? or remaining as an independent forum?
您读了震害调研日志吗?读完了您认为那就是海外民运?真的?
- posted on 07/21/2009
夹缝, you are really 唯恐天下不乱的,游手好闲and supressing guy, painting me as whatever you'd like won't help you... People know who you are...
________________________________________________________
The following is my original whole post
How many? Yesterday, I only saw two or three, but even those are gone today.
I don't uaually watch chinese state media, but this event is something different. Western media always think they are fair, open and ballanced. How balanced is it? with 144 photos, there is nothing about the injured and killed innocents.
If chinese government can't control the situation and protect people's safety and let these muslins contunue to do whatever they desire, then 民族间的报复仇杀 is unavoidable. Han chinese will take the justice to their own hands.
Han chinese's life is as precious as anyone else and should be protected by the government. These criminials and organizers should be subject to the same law and justice as everyone else, period.
I think Chinese government is very weak in some sense. My sympathy and condolence go to these innocents.
For us oversea chinese, we should use our influence to fight against 热比娅为首的境外敌对势力, monitor their behaviors and provide information.
Look at the people demonstarted at Turkey... What do we do?
touche wrote:
I did see pictures of bloody Chinese women from the western media, though not as horrible as these here. If you are tired of western media, how much more tired should we be of Chinese state media? I think your scale is pretty tipped over. Don't cry for unfairness too soon too easy.
The monopoly of power gets the monopoly of blame, everybody should know that.
xy wrote:
谢谢blue's phote。实在惨不忍睹. We won't be able to see these photos from western media...
I'm so tired of western media. Although this time they are less biased in their words, but their pictures are biased.
I've just fliped through www.yahoo.com photos. Among 144 photos, almost no of them are the injured and blood-covered Han chinese, more than half of them are armed policemen and soldiers. What that implied
Where is the fairness and justice? Bullshit to western media!
I'm aslo very tired of these democratic movement people here. No matter what happened, it's the fault of chinese government or GCD.
- Re: Double helix -- DNA50年posted on 07/21/2009
I did not. I'm asking XW a general question, not the specific one.
If you are truely independent, you should not deny some of the people here are biased.
行人 wrote:
- posted on 07/21/2009
Sorry for my being frank. But I have to say: You are such a moron.
1. Nobody could paint you as an asshole if it were not for your our words, which you yourself mentioned below.
2.What the heck is "境外敌对势力"?
CCP's empty blame "境外敌对势力" is totally bullshit. Anybody who critisize CCP and outside China will be labeled as "境外敌对势力" by CCP. According to CCP's understanding of "境外敌对势力", almost the whole world (except the NK/cuba, etc) is "境外敌对势力".
Even though I do not belong to any chinese-related political organization, I could still be labeled as "境外敌对势力" as many other ethnic chinese outside china.
In these case, how could you ask me to monitor "境外敌对势力" ?
You just don't make sense, moron.
3. We are in the united state of america. And 热比娅 is not a criminal here by any means. She is legally staying here like me and many others. So you don't have any authority to prosecute 热比娅. Don't be a fool.
4. Besides china CCP, not a signle country blamed 热比娅 for the xinjiang riot and killing.
Even china CCP who has always pointed finger to her, still failed to provide solid evidences that 热比娅 has been behind the murder.
Understand? you nasty jerk.
5. We are not living in China. Many of us are not china citizens. Why the fXXk should we 相应CCP的号召去做坏事侵犯一个美国的合法居民?
U 100% nuts!
I don't know how long have you been in the states. But I got the feeling that you don't know this country quite well. Or you totally lost sense of reality.
You nuts!
xy wrote:
夹缝, you are really 唯恐天下不乱的,游手好闲and supressing guy, painting me as whatever you'd like won't help you... People know who you are...
________________________________________________________
The following is my original whole post
How many? Yesterday, I only saw two or three, but even those are gone today.
I don't uaually watch chinese state media, but this event is something different. Western media always think they are fair, open and ballanced. How balanced is it? with 144 photos, there is nothing about the injured and killed innocents.
If chinese government can't control the situation and protect people's safety and let these muslins contunue to do whatever they desire, then 民族间的报复仇杀 is unavoidable. Han chinese will take the justice to their own hands.
Han chinese's life is as precious as anyone else and should be protected by the government. These criminials and organizers should be subject to the same law and justice as everyone else, period.
I think Chinese government is very weak in some sense. My sympathy and condolence go to these innocents.
For us oversea chinese, we should use our influence to fight against 热比娅为首的境外敌对势力, monitor their behaviors and provide information.
Look at the people demonstarted at Turkey... What do we do?
- Re: Double helix -- DNA50年posted on 07/21/2009
xy wrote:
I did not. I'm asking XW a general question, not the specific one.
If you are truely independent, you should not deny some of the people here are biased.
噢,原来您没读。知道了,谢谢。 - Re: Double helix -- DNA50年posted on 07/21/2009
又白痴了吧?
如果不是independent的, 能有人骂CCP吗? 你以为只有人民日报海外版才是independent? 帮老共当包打听才是independent?
xy wrote:
does mayacafe really want to become another forum representing the so-called oversea democratic movement? or remaining as an independent forum? - posted on 07/21/2009
How many things you have called me below... This shows what kind of person you are... Since it's from you, it does not bother me at all...
I've rarely commented on Chinese internal politics over the years except Tibet and Xinjiang. I did not say anything about 境外敌对势力 or the general definition of it in my post.
The only comment in my post is "热比娅为首的境外敌对势力" which refers to World Uyghur Congress whose goal is to split China and establish an independent country as East Turkestan. If you think they are great, you can join 热比娅 and World Uyghur Congress for their cause.
Just like you, I'm a US citizen but this does not prevent me loving China and feeling sad about the deadly violence and wanting to do something about it. What I called for are things like calling your senators about World Uyghur Congress and letting your coworkers know what happened in Xinjiang etc... They are legal and protected by the Constitution.
Someone like you would never understand me. From what you have said and done here, I don't think you are going anywhere, what you may do though is destroying mayacafe and driving the regular oversea chinese readers away by puffing here all the time.
This is my last post here today, hopefully with you in my life. I've never talked to you and it is always that you come around me and attack me by using your dirty mouths.
For someone like you, enough is enough.
夹缝 wrote:
Sorry for my being frank. But I have to say: You are such a moron.
1. Nobody could paint you as an asshole if it were not for your our words, which you yourself mentioned below.
2.What the heck is "境外敌对势力"?
CCP's empty blame "境外敌对势力" is totally bullshit. Anybody who critisize CCP and outside China will be labeled as "境外敌对势力" by CCP. According to CCP's understanding of "境外敌对势力", almost the whole world (except the NK/cuba, etc) is "境外敌对势力".
Even though I do not belong to any chinese-related political organization, I could still be labeled as "境外敌对势力" as many other ethnic chinese outside china.
In these case, how could you ask me to monitor "境外敌对势力" ?
You just don't make sense, moron.
3. We are in the united state of america. And 热比娅 is not a criminal here by any means. She is legally staying here like me and many others. So you don't have any authority to prosecute 热比娅. Don't be a fool.
4. Besides china CCP, not a signle country blamed 热比娅 for the xinjiang riot and killing.
Even china CCP who has always pointed finger to her, still failed to provide solid evidences that 热比娅 has been behind the murder.
Understand? you nasty jerk.
5. We are not living in China. Many of us are not china citizens. Why the fXXk should we 相应CCP的号召去做坏事侵犯一个美国的合法居民?
U 100% nuts!
I don't know how long have you been in the states. But I got the feeling that you don't know this country quite well. Or you totally lost sense of reality.
You nuts!
xy wrote:
夹缝, you are really 唯恐天下不乱的,游手好闲and supressing guy, painting me as whatever you'd like won't help you... People know who you are...
________________________________________________________
The following is my original whole post
How many? Yesterday, I only saw two or three, but even those are gone today.
I don't uaually watch chinese state media, but this event is something different. Western media always think they are fair, open and ballanced. How balanced is it? with 144 photos, there is nothing about the injured and killed innocents.
If chinese government can't control the situation and protect people's safety and let these muslins contunue to do whatever they desire, then 民族间的报复仇杀 is unavoidable. Han chinese will take the justice to their own hands.
Han chinese's life is as precious as anyone else and should be protected by the government. These criminials and organizers should be subject to the same law and justice as everyone else, period.
I think Chinese government is very weak in some sense. My sympathy and condolence go to these innocents.
For us oversea chinese, we should use our influence to fight against 热比娅为首的境外敌对势力, monitor their behaviors and provide information.
Look at the people demonstarted at Turkey... What do we do?
- Re: Double helix -- DNA50年posted on 07/21/2009
xy,
“以热比娅为首的境外敌对势力” 没藏在玛雅咖啡里,替你全部搜查了一遍,连咖啡豆豆倒出来查清楚了,都没半个。所以请您去其他的地方检查。
夹缝医生,你是敌对势力吗? 如果不是,也请闭嘴。
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