在美国有许许多多普通平凡的人有着很伟大的心胸与境界。他们的一些在我们看来很不凡的内心世界往往是通过许多日常“小事”来体现出来的:比如收养被弃的亚洲儿童(女婴及有生理缺陷的男婴);同有数枚“拖油瓶”(按某些中国人的传统观念看)、已经离异的单身母亲(或父亲)结婚;慷慨(通过钱、时间、精力等)参加各类公益、捐赠活动,等等。这些事例皆能体现出美国人“爱”的含量及深度。今天刚刚读到的一则新闻,也可为“美国社会多‘高人’”的现象增加一个注脚。
我们不难想象一位通常父亲晚年失子之痛,特别是他儿子是在异国它乡极度的惨死;也不难想象当他听到杀害亲子的凶手终获“报应”时的感受。但我们很难想象出一个经历了这样人生悲剧的美国父亲的如下反应。
今天是美国政府弹冠相庆的日子,因为美国政府的二号敌人al-Zarqawi在美军空袭中被击毙。下面是美国CNN记者今天对二年前在伊拉克被al-Zarqawi斩首示众的受害者(Nicholas Berg)父亲,Michael Berg,的采访录。这是我读到过的最有意思的对话之一。
Beheaded man's father: Revenge breeds revenge
Michael Berg talks about the death of his son and al-Zarqawi
Thursday, June 8, 2006; Posted: 9:31 p.m. EDT (01:31 GMT)
(CNN) -- The U.S.-led coalition's No. 1 wanted man in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi -- who conducted a campaign of insurgency bombings, beheadings and killings of Americans and Iraqi civilians -- was killed in a U.S. airstrike.
A gruesome video was posted on Islamic Web sites in May, 2004, depicting a man believed to be al-Zarqawi beheading Nicholas Berg, an American businessman who was working in Iraq.
CNN anchor Soledad O'Brien talks to Nicholas Berg's father, Michael Berg, by phone from Wilmington, Delaware, for his reaction to the news.
O'BRIEN: Mr. Berg, thank you for talking with us again. It's nice to have an opportunity to talk to you. Of course, I'm curious to know your reaction, as it is now confirmed that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the man who is widely credited and blamed for killing your son, Nicholas, is dead.
MICHAEL BERG: Well, my reaction is I'm sorry whenever any human being dies. Zarqawi is a human being. He has a family who are reacting just as my family reacted when Nick was killed, and I feel bad for that.
I feel doubly bad, though, because Zarqawi is also a political figure, and his death will re-ignite yet another wave of revenge, and revenge is something that I do not follow, that I do want ask for, that I do not wish for against anybody. And it can't end the cycle. As long as people use violence to combat violence, we will always have violence.
O'BRIEN: I have to say, sir, I'm surprised. I know how devastated you and your family were, frankly, when Nick was killed in such a horrible, and brutal and public way.
BERG: Well, you shouldn't be surprised, because I have never indicated anything but forgiveness and peace in any interview on the air.
O'BRIEN: No, no. And we have spoken before, and I'm well aware of that. But at some point, one would think, is there a moment when you say, 'I'm glad he's dead, the man who killed my son'?
BERG: No. How can a human being be glad that another human being is dead?
O'BRIEN: There have been family members who have weighed in, victims, who've said that they don't think he's a martyr in heaven, that they think, frankly, he went straight to hell ...
You know, you talked about the fact that he's become a political figure. Are you concerned that he becomes a martyr and a hero and, in fact, invigorates the insurgency in Iraq?
BERG: Of course. When Nick was killed, I felt that I had nothing left to lose. I'm a pacifist, so I wasn't going out murdering people. But I am -- was not a risk-taking person, and yet now I've done things that have endangered me tremendously.
I've been shot at. I've been showed horrible pictures. I've been called all kinds of names and threatened by all kinds of people, and yet I feel that I have nothing left to lose, so I do those things.
Now, take someone who in 1991, who maybe had their family killed by an American bomb, their support system whisked away from them, someone who, instead of being 59, as I was when Nick died, was 5-years-old or 10-years-old. And then if I were that person, might I not learn how to fly a plane into a building or strap a bag of bombs to my back?
That's what is happening every time we kill an Iraqi, every time we kill anyone, we are creating a large number of people who are going to want vengeance. And, you know, when are we ever going to learn that that doesn't work?
O'BRIEN: There's an alternate reading, which would say at some point, Iraqis will say the insurgency is not OK -- that they'll be inspired by the death of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi in the sense of he was turned in, for example, we believe by his own No. 2, No. 3 leadership in his ranks.
And, that's actually them saying we do not want this kind of violence in our country. Experts whom we've spoken to this morning have said this is a critical moment where Iraqis need to figure out which direction the country is going to go. That would be an alternate reading to the scenario you're pointing to.
BERG: Yes, well, I don't believe that scenario, because every time news of new atrocities committed by Americans in Iraq becomes public, more and more of the everyday Iraqi people who tried to hold out, who tried to be peaceful people lose it and join -- what we call the insurgency, and what I call the resistance, against the occupation of one sovereign nation.
O'BRIEN: There's a theory that a struggle for democracy, you know...
BERG: Democracy? Come on, you can't really believe that that's a democracy there when the people who are running the elections are holding guns. That's not democracy.
O'BRIEN: There's a theory that as they try to form some kind of government, that it's going to be brutal, it's going to be bloody, there's going to be loss, and that's the history of many countries -- and that's just what a lot of people pay for what they believe will be better than what they had under Saddam Hussein.
BERG: Well, you know, I'm not saying Saddam Hussein was a good man, but he's no worse than George Bush. Saddam Hussein didn't pull the trigger, didn't commit the rapes. Neither did George Bush. But both men are responsible for them under their reigns of terror. (Watch
I don't buy that. Iraq did not have al Qaeda in it. Al Qaeda supposedly killed my son.
Under Saddam Hussein, no al Qaeda. Under George Bush, al Qaeda.
Under Saddam Hussein, relative stability. Under George Bush, instability.
Under Saddam Hussein, about 30,000 deaths a year. Under George Bush, about 60,000 deaths a year. I don't get it. Why is it better to have George Bush the king of Iraq rather than Saddam Hussein?
O'BRIEN: Michael Berg is the father of Nicholas Berg, the young man, the young businessman who was beheaded so brutally in Iraq back in May of 2004.
- Re: 美国人的境界posted on 06/09/2006
"在美国有许许多多普通平凡的人有着很伟大的心胸与境界."这些和他们的信仰有关。大多数美国人都是基督徒。 - Re: 美国人的境界posted on 06/09/2006
看来你很哈耶。信什么都不能不加以甄别,要去其糟粕,取其精华方可。即使是对中国传统的佛教、道教也应如此。其它宗教的教义,除了邪教,大多也是劝人向善的,何独基督乎? - posted on 06/09/2006
BERG: No. How can a human being be glad that another human being is dead?
——因为美国隔着那么远的太平洋还干涉台湾,所以双子楼爆炸的时候我就特别高兴,我希望帝国大厦,还有美国的那些大楼多炸点儿。可惜这世界只有一个拉登。:(
没有美国,世界会不太平,有了美国,世界会更不太平。
我看BERG说的有道理,萨达姆在,伊拉克还稳定,布什在,连他妈稳定都没了,稳定没了,要民主还有个狗屁用?
——美国个别老百姓的境界我不怀疑,中国有些和尚连走路踩死个蚂蚁还得道歉,更离谱。我奇怪的是,为什么那么好的美国人总是能选出穷兵黩武的总统和议员?隔着太平洋,也不嫌费事儿,来打朝鲜战争、越南战争、阿富汗战争、伊拉克战争。一看到这些事儿,我又怎么也不能把美国人和境界刮上边儿,真是矛盾。
- Re: 美国人的境界posted on 06/11/2006
人家米国就是好嘛就是有能耐吗?人家在关他那摩设个监狱,顺便用古兰经擦了一下屁股,然后又在伊拉克和囚犯玩了一次亲密接触,地球人都知道了。前两天
听说连吃奶的孩子和临盆的孕妇也不放过,现在又要拒交联合国会费,靠,放眼世界谁能如此,米国就是厉害啊。 - posted on 06/11/2006
没有美国人去朝鲜,大概今天闹粮荒,就不只是北朝鲜了。
美国人在越南败了,那更是越南人的命苦。注定受共党统治。
伊拉克吗,就看那些用宗教来煽动人民,统治人民的伊拉克穆斯林牧师政客们,能不能把握机会了。
阿富汗,你该去看看今天的阿富汗与3年前的不同。
你忘掉了提90年代的科索沃。美国人也出兵了。
玛雅咖啡,自从这个叫“青冈”的人来了之后,本来很有点的那种 intellectual 气氛全没了。看看ZILI,ADAGIO,SUSAN,七格,沈默克,等等,熟悉的名字,全没了。
至于那个自作聪明,换不同的马甲为自己叫嚷的“春来去”,“无稽”,“TOM”,更不值一提了。
真不明白,玛雅怎么还让这两个东西在这里兜售垃圾。
青冈 wrote:
BERG: No. How can a human being be glad that another human being is dead?
——因为美国隔着那么远的太平洋还干涉台湾,所以双子楼爆炸的时候我就特别高兴,我希望帝国大厦,还有美国的那些大楼多炸点儿。可惜这世界只有一个拉登。:(
没有美国,世界会不太平,有了美国,世界会更不太平。
我看BERG说的有道理,萨达姆在,伊拉克还稳定,布什在,连他妈稳定都没了,稳定没了,要民主还有个狗屁用?
——美国个别老百姓的境界我不怀疑,中国有些和尚连走路踩死个蚂蚁还得道歉,更离谱。我奇怪的是,为什么那么好的美国人总是能选出穷兵黩武的总统和议员?隔着太平洋,也不嫌费事儿,来打朝鲜战争、越南战争、阿富汗战争、伊拉克战争。一看到这些事儿,我又怎么也不能把美国人和境界刮上边儿,真是矛盾。
- Re: 美国人的境界posted on 06/11/2006
自从年初七格上了一个龙应台的帖子,这个叫青冈的就开始无知者无畏了.咖啡馆一切争吵和流失都始于此人.无稽\春去回这些人本没有阵地,可青冈一付傻冒似的带头大哥形象给那些人增加了不少底气,愈闹腾愈欢.
好好一个断背山帖子,青冈"老师"一发言语惊四座,四下当即鸦雀无声,玛雅里很多帖子就这样被中断的太多了,青冈就好象咖啡馆里的休止符,一切智慧、宽容、多元就此打住。
总算看到有人指出这一点,顶一下。青冈的存在,彻底降低了咖啡馆的层次,老板娘的大度实在让人诧异。 - posted on 06/11/2006
钱钱 wrote:哈哈哈,我还挺厉害地,快赶上美国佬了。
青冈就好象咖啡馆里的休止符,一切智慧、宽容、多元就此打住。
总算看到有人指出这一点,顶一下。青冈的存在,彻底降低了咖啡馆的层次,老板娘的大度实在让人诧异。
要容忍不同的声音讲话嘛。
再说了,如果有我在,应该通过对比,显得咖啡馆层次更高才对呀。
不管怎么说,我还算光明,从不用马甲说话。
而且我说话从来直来直去,想的是什么说的就是什么。:)
回到主题,这篇文章如果标题叫“BERG的境界”,怕是让我写几句反对的话我还真就写不出来,就这么简单。
论坛就是讨论的,我觉得如果大家相互吹捧,反倒没什么意思。
- posted on 06/11/2006
果断 wrote:
玛雅咖啡,自从这个叫“青冈”的人来了之后,本来很有点的那种 intellectual 气氛全没了。看看ZILI,ADAGIO,SUSAN,七格,沈默克,等等,熟悉的名字,全没了。
真不明白,玛雅怎么还让这两个东西在这里兜售垃圾。
就政治立场和价值观上来看,我应该和店里的若干朋友完全相反,我不否认,但我不认为这是驱逐反对方的理由。果真如此,倒是地地道道的专制了。孔子说过同而不和,我也不知道怎么理解。
我在咖啡店里还是守规矩的,比如我从不主动进行恶劣的人身攻击。
如果主人玛雅认为我该走,我二话不说。:)
偶然来到玛雅咖啡店,后来便常来,因为一是玛雅文字里透露出来的艺术性情,我很感兴趣;二是有xw、林达等等这些老师在,我觉得可以学习不少东西,还真是本着学习的目的来的,而且,在咖啡店呆这么长时间,收获确实不小,比如看问题的方法等等。
要是有一天我走了,那一定是因为咖啡店里的原创文字完全枯竭,目前这一趋势正在加剧,咖啡店已经成了读者文摘的翻版。
- posted on 06/12/2006
果断 wrote:
没有美国人去朝鲜,大概今天闹粮荒,就不只是北朝鲜了。
缺乏根据。
美国人在越南败了,那更是越南人的命苦。注定受共党统治。
这你说了不算,应该让广大越南民众说才行。
伊拉克吗,就看那些用宗教来煽动人民,统治人民的伊拉克穆斯林牧师政客们,能不能把握机会了。
总比被诬为恐怖分子被枪毙了好。
阿富汗,你该去看看今天的阿富汗与3年前的不同。
路费你给报啊!
你忘掉了提90年代的科索沃。美国人也出兵了。
懒得提,你当忘了啊!随便列出几个罢了。
玛雅咖啡,自从这个叫“青冈”的人来了之后,本来很有点的那种 intellectual 气氛全没了。看看ZILI,ADAGIO,SUSAN,七格,沈默克,等等,熟悉的名字,全没了。
走是人家的权利,来也是人家的权利。你看你老兄不就又冒出来了吗?
至于那个自作聪明,换不同的马甲为自己叫嚷的“春来去”,“无稽”,“TOM”,更不值一提了。
人家根本就没想和你这号人交谈,也没打算被人提。好像是你自己不甘寂寞吧。
真不明白,玛雅怎么还让这两个东西在这里兜售垃圾。
这是明显的没素质。咬人可万万要不得,你不知道打免疫针涨钱了啊!
Please paste HTML code and press Enter.
(c) 2010 Maya Chilam Foundation