Thanatology
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Thanatology is the academic, and often scientific, study of death among human beings. It investigates the circumstances surrounding a person's death, the grief experienced by the deceased's loved ones, and larger social attitudes towards death such as ritual and memorialization. It is primarily an interdisciplinary study, frequently undertaken by professionals in nursing, psychology, sociology, psychiatry, social work and veterinary science. It also describes bodily changes that acompany death and the after-death period.
The word is derived from the Greek language. In Greek mythology, Thanatos (θάνατος: "death") is the personification of death. The English suffix -ology derives from the Greek suffix -logia (-λογια: "speaking").
GOALS
In most cases, thanatology is studied as a means towards the end of providing palliative care for dying individuals and their families. According to the World Health Organization, "palliative care is an approach that improves the quality of life of patients and their families facing the problem associated with life-threatening illness," involving the "treatment of pain and other problems, physical, psychosocial and spiritual." [1] Thanatology recognizes that, ultimately, death is inevitable. It works to develop guidelines to ease the process of dying.
Thanatology does not directly explore the meaning of life and of death. Medically, this question is irrelevant to those studying it. Some medical texts refer to inquiries of the meaning of life and death as absurd and futile. However, the question is very relevant to the psychological health of those involved in the dying process: individuals, families, communities, and cultures. Thanatology explores how the question affects those involved, not the question itself.
Many individuals who study thanatology do so because they believe that life is valuable. Death is the end of life, making the study of it worthwhile by association. Their primary goal is to ease and improve the dying process, both for the dying and for that person's loved ones. This goal is consistent with the Hippocratic Oath.
There is also a branch of thanatology called music-thanatology which focuses on the use of "music vigils" to help the individual and their family. A vigil consists of one or a team of music-thanatologists who visit the dying person. They play the harp and sing a certain repertoire of music that is very helpful to the patient and their family. Often after a vigil, the dying person is more relaxed, less agitated, and is in less pain. Many music-thanatologists are certified by the [2] Music-Thanatology Association International organization. Music-thanatologists use the intitals "CM-Th" to designate certifcation by the only professional organization of music-thanatologists. Many hospitals and hospices now have professional music-thanatologists on their staff. More information may be found by searching for music-thanatology and the chalice of repose.
FIELDS OF STUDY
As an interdisciplinary study, thanatology relies on collaboration with many different fields of study. Death is a universal human concern; it has been examined and re-examined in a wide variety of disciplines, dating back to pre-history. Some of these fields of study are academic in nature; others have evolved throughout history as cultural traditions. Because death is such a broad and complex subject, thanatology relies on a holistic approach.
The humanities are, perhaps, the very oldest disciplines to explore death. Historically, the average human had a significantly lower standard of living and lifespan in the past than he or she would today. Wars, famine, and disease always kept death close at hand. Artists, authors, and poets often employed the universality of death as a motif in their works; this trend continues today.
The social sciences are often involved on both the individual and on the cultural level. The individual level is primarily covered by psychology, the study of individual minds. Avoiding (or, in some cases, seeking) death is an important human motive; the fear of death affects many individuals' actions.
Several social sciences focus on the broad picture, and they too frequently encounter the issue of death. Sociology is the study of social rules. No society is without its attitudes towards death. Sub-disciplines within sociology, such as the sociology of disaster, focus more narrowly on the issue of how societies handle death. Likewise, cultural anthropology and archeology concern themselves with how current and past cultures deal with death, respectively. Society and culture are similar concepts, but their scopes are different. A society is an interdependent community, while culture is an attribute of a community: the complex web of shifting patterns that link individuals together. In any case, both cultures and societies must deal with death; the various cultural studies (many of which overlap with each other) examine this response using a variety of approaches.
Both religion and mythology concern themselves with what happens after death. They usually involve reincarnation or some form of an afterlife. The universal life-death-rebirth deity glorifies those who are able to overcome death. Although thanatology does not directly investigate the question itself, it is concerned with how people choose to answer the question for themselves. For example, an individual who believes that she will go to heaven when she dies will likely be less afraid of death. Alternately, a terminally ill individual who believes that suicide is a sin may be wracked with guilt. On one hand, he may wish to end the suffering, but on the other hand, he may believe that he will be sent to hell for eternity unless he dies naturally, however long and painful that may be. The loved ones of individuals like these are likewise either consoled or distressed, depending on what they believe will ultimately happen to the dying individual. Faith can inspire comfort, anxiety, and sometimes both. This is an important point to those studying thanatology and the sociology of religion.
Medical science and applied medicine are also very important fields of study used in thanatology. The biological study of death helps explain what happens, physically, to individuals in the moment of dying and after-death bodily changes. Pharmacology investigates how prescription drugs can ease death, and in some cases prevent early deaths. Psychiatry, the medical application of psychological principles and theraputic drugs, is also involved; many licensed psychiatrists are required to take courses on thanatology during training. Medical ethics are also an important area of study, especially on the issue of euthanasia ("right to die").
The Association for Death Education and Counseling, a multi-disciplinary professional organization based in the United States, offers a certification in thanatology. Requirements include advanced degrees in appropriate fields, such as those mentioned above, and the sitting of a three hour proctored competency examination. On passing the examination, members are able to list themselves as "Certified Thanatologists", or add the initials "CT" after their academic degrees.
Currently Hood College is the only school that offers a full Masters degree in Thanatology.
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孔子说,不知生,安知死?而死亡学以为,不知死,安知生?
我以为后者是正确的,有一个“智”字。孔夫子还是有些胆小,或者
有些实用主义也说不定。
故而中国人要引进佛教、伊斯兰教。这还不够,还有整个西方文化中
爱与死的演绎。有一件事,就是决斗,是因为基督教不兴自杀的,故
而失情受辱之后,一般想到的不是自杀,是决斗中一杀。
莫惊怕!死亡学好象更是社会学里的东西,很正常。
- posted on 09/25/2006
论死亡
犹如儿童畏惧黑暗,人类对死亡的恐惧,也由于听信太多的鬼怪传说而增大。
其实,与其视死亡为恐怖,倒不如采取一种宗教性的虔诚,从而冷静地看待死——视之为人生必不可免的归宿,以及对尘世罪孽的赎还。
如果将死亡看作人对大自然的被迫献祭,那么当然会对死亡心怀恐惧。但是,在那种宗教的沉思中,也难免掺杂有虚妄与迷信。在一些修道士的苦行录中,可以读到这样的说法:试想一指受伤就何其痛苦!那么当死亡侵损人的全身时,其痛苦更不知大多少倍。实际上,死亡的痛苦未必比手指的伤痛为重——因为人身上致命的器官,并非也是感觉最灵敏的器官啊!所以,塞涅卡①(以一个智者和一个普通凡人的身份)讲的是对的:“与死俱来的一切,甚至比死亡本身更可怕。”这是指将死前的呻吟与痉挛,惨白的肤色,亲友的悲嚎,丧具与葬仪,如此种种都指导死亡的过程衬托得十分可怖。
然而,人类的心灵并非真的如此软弱,以至不能抵御和克服对死亡的恐惧。人类可以召唤许多伴侣,帮助人克服对死的恐怖——仇忾之心压倒死亡,爱情之心蔑视死亡,荣誉感使人献身死亡,哀痛之心使人奔赴死亡。而怯懦软弱却会使人在死亡尚未到来之前心灵就先死了。
在历史中我们曾看到,当奥陶大帝伏剑自杀后②,他的臣仆们只是出自忠诚的同情(一种软弱的感情),而甘愿毅然从之殉身。而塞涅卜说:“厌倦和无聊也会使人自杀,乏味与空虚能致人于死命,尽管一个人既不英勇又不悲惨。”
但有一点也应当指出。那就是,死亡无法征服那种伟大的灵魂。这种人,直到生命的最后一刻,也始终如一不失其本色。
在奥古斯都大帝的弥离之际他唯一关注的只是爱情:“永别了,丽维亚,不要忘记我们的过去!”③
提比留斯大帝根本不理会死亡的逼近,正如塔西佗所说:“他虽然体力日衰,智慧却敏锐如初。”
菲斯帕斯幽默地迎候死亡的降临,他坐在椅子上说:“难道我就将这样成为神吗?”
卡尔巴之死来自不测,但他却勇敢地对那些刺客们说:“你们杀吧,只要这对罗马人民有利!”随后他从容地引颈就戮。
塞纳留斯④直到临死前所惦念的还是工作,他的遗言是:“假如还需要我办点什么,就快点拿来。”诸如此类,视死如归,大有人在。
那些斯多葛学者们未免把死亡看得过于严重了。以至他们曾不厌其烦地讨论对于死亡的种种精神准备。而朱维诺却说得好⑤:“死亡也是大自然赐给人类的恩惠之一。”
死亡与生命都是自然的产物,一个婴儿的降生也许与死亡同样痛苦。在炽热如火的激情中受伤的人,是感觉不到痛楚的。而一个坚定执着、有信念的心灵也不会为死亡畏惧而陷入恐怖。
人生最美好的挽歌,无过于当你在一种有价值的事业中度过了一生后能够说:“主啊,如今请让你的仆人离去。”
死亡还具有一种作用,它能够消歇尘世的种种困扰,打开赞美和名誉的大门——正是那些生前受到妒恨的人,死后却将为人类所敬仰!
①、塞涅卡(Lucius seneca 4—65),罗马哲学家、作家、道德哲学家。
②、参中塔西佗《历史》第2卷49章。
③、奥古斯都、泰比瑞斯、斯菲斯帕斯、塞纳留斯,均为古罗马皇帝及英雄人物。上述史事参见苏维托尼乌斯《罗马十二帝王传》。
④、参见卡西斯《罗马史》第67章。
⑤、朱维若(Jurena,155—135),罗马作家。
- posted on 09/25/2006
xw wrote:
孔子说,不知生,安知死?而死亡学以为,不知死,安知生?
我以为后者是正确的,有一个“智”字。孔夫子还是有些胆小,或者
有些实用主义也说不定。
这个我同意:不知死,安知生?觉着“不知生,安知死”有些苟且。不过孔子到底怎样得出这个结论我们也不知,那或许只是说给大家听,好给我们生的希望。这也是中国人比较缺乏宗教情结的一个例子。可是中国人为什么会缺乏宗教情结呢?是不是一直有地可种,生活相对安逸的缘故?
故而中国人要引进佛教、伊斯兰教。这还不够,还有整个西方文化中
爱与死的演绎。有一件事,就是决斗,是因为基督教不兴自杀的,故
而失情受辱之后,一般想到的不是自杀,是决斗中一杀。
呵呵,决斗也是由他人执行的自杀,很滑头啊。但是如果情人没有被别人抢走,只是自己失恋了,怎么办? - posted on 09/25/2006
浮生的问题有意思。现在,世界上主要宗教是犹太教,基督教和伊斯兰教。基督教是从犹太教延伸和分离来的。伊斯兰教是摘取基督教加以改装的。从基督教传播的角度上看,中国太远了,没传到。是不是这就是中国没有宗教的原因?因为和印度靠近,所以佛教相对流行。
浮生 wrote:
这个我同意:不知死,安知生?觉着“不知生,安知死”有些苟且。不过孔子到底怎样得出这个结论我们也不知,那或许只是说给大家听,好给我们生的希望。这也是中国人比较缺乏宗教情结的一个例子。可是中国人为什么会缺乏宗教情结呢?是不是一直有地可种,生活相对安逸的缘故?
- posted on 09/25/2006
There are many books talking about near-death experience, past and after life.
A couple interesting ones:
1. “Saved by The Light” by Dannion Brinkley
The author had two near-death experience, and had been working as hospice volunteer for over twenty-four years to provides palliative care and attends to the emotional and spiritual needs of terminally ill patients at an inpatient facility or at the patient's home.
2. “人生最大的一件事”渡过生死的的大海 卢胜彦
一般认为卢胜彦是佛外道。
- posted on 09/25/2006
还有巡回转世啊。我才看了一篇文章说,林肯的转世是林伯格,美国的一个将军。西藏的喇嘛就是找转世啊。印度人把死看得很淡,觉得就是要转一下世嘛。
rzp wrote:
There are many books talking about near-death experience, past and after life.
A couple interesting ones:
1. “Saved by The Light” by Dannion Brinkley
The author had two near-death experience, and had been working as hospice volunteer to provides palliative care and attends to the emotional and spiritual needs of terminally ill patients at an inpatient facility or at the patient's home.
2. “人生最大的一件事”渡过生死的的大海 卢胜彦
一般认为卢胜彦是佛外道。
- posted on 09/25/2006
July wrote:
浮生的问题有意思。现在,世界上主要宗教是犹太教,基督教和伊斯兰教。基督教是从犹太教延伸和分离来的。伊斯兰教是摘取基督教加以改装的。从基督教传播的角度上看,中国太远了,没传到。是不是这就是中国没有宗教的原因?因为和印度靠近,所以佛教相对流行。
这里有两个问题,一个是为什么中国自己没有产生宗教?另一个是为什么传来的宗教也没能立足?
第一个问题我在想,是不是只有游牧民族才会创真正的宗教?比如犹太教。又比如印度教,如果确实是亚利安人带入的话。基督教还是传到中国了。唐代的景教就是基督教的一支。佛教虽然到了中国,是不是也变了味儿?宗教在一个地方的传播当时当地君主的取向很重要,比如没有君士坦丁,基督教就未必在罗马帝国那么快立足;景教,佛教在中国的传播也都有皇帝支持,但是后来又灭佛。那从另一个角度讲,宗教的传播到底是偶然还是必然呢? - posted on 09/25/2006
Yeah.
There are two types of reincarnation theories. One involves life forms which are non-human as in Buddhism, another one (perhaps Animism, not sure it is the right label) believes all incarnations are human, and one incarnation is only a brief moment in the whole soul life.
Bottom line is we don't know what we don't know, even though maybe we don't know what we know, and we are quite sure we know what we know and what we don't know.
July wrote:
还有.......啊。 - Re: Thanatologyposted on 09/25/2006
浮生 wrote:
但是如果情人没有被别人抢走,只是自己失恋了,怎么办?
Have you watched french Kiss yet? - Re: Thanatologyposted on 09/25/2006
Lucy wrote:
浮生 wrote:Have you watched french Kiss yet?
但是如果情人没有被别人抢走,只是自己失恋了,怎么办?
弄来了,还没顾上看。怎么,里边有答案吗? - Re: Thanatologyposted on 09/25/2006
没答案, 但请你今晚熬夜都要看。:-))
浮生 wrote:
Lucy wrote:弄来了,还没顾上看。怎么,里边有答案吗?
浮生 wrote:Have you watched french Kiss yet?
但是如果情人没有被别人抢走,只是自己失恋了,怎么办? - posted on 09/25/2006
嘿嘿,有点‘数典忘祖’哈。:-)
宗教有两类。一是哲学领域的,属于哲人、智者,中国的道教和儒教属于这一类。另一类是institutionalized religion, 应该是社会学范畴,例如三大一神教,是社会上层对大众的控制手段(正如‘牧师’这个名称所暗示)。只能说中国没有能够发展出后一类。原因大概是道教和儒教从根本上讲是无神论,而大众需要神。
信奉儒教的中国社会一直基本上是政教分离的。一神教对于无神论的儒家学者而言基本是小儿科。我想这大概就是为什么类似三大一神教在中国不能被institutionalized. 另外,也正是因为民众需要神,儒释道才在中国民间混合变成了几不像。
研究宗教的网友寒江月有一篇论宗教的文章,好极,不妨找来看看。
xw引的这个严格地说算不上对死亡的研究,只能算对濒死过程和临终关怀的研究。
浮生 wrote:
July wrote:这里有两个问题,一个是为什么中国自己没有产生宗教?另一个是为什么传来的宗教也没能立足?
浮生的问题有意思。现在,世界上主要宗教是犹太教,基督教和伊斯兰教。基督教是从犹太教延伸和分离来的。伊斯兰教是摘取基督教加以改装的。从基督教传播的角度上看,中国太远了,没传到。是不是这就是中国没有宗教的原因?因为和印度靠近,所以佛教相对流行。
第一个问题我在想,是不是只有游牧民族才会创真正的宗教?比如犹太教。又比如印度教,如果确实是亚利安人带入的话。基督教还是传到中国了。唐代的景教就是基督教的一支。佛教虽然到了中国,是不是也变了味儿?宗教在一个地方的传播当时当地君主的取向很重要,比如没有君士坦丁,基督教就未必在罗马帝国那么快立足;景教,佛教在中国的传播也都有皇帝支持,但是后来又灭佛。那从另一个角度讲,宗教的传播到底是偶然还是必然呢? - posted on 09/25/2006
浮生 wrote:
xw wrote:这个我同意:不知死,安知生?觉着“不知生,安知死”有些苟且。不过孔子到底怎样得出这个结论我们也不知,那或许只是说给大家听,好给我们生的希望。这也是中国人比较缺乏宗教情结的一个例子。可是中国人为什么会缺乏宗教情结呢?是不是一直有地可种,生活相对安逸的缘故?
孔子说,不知生,安知死?而死亡学以为,不知死,安知生?
我以为后者是正确的,有一个“智”字。孔夫子还是有些胆小,或者
有些实用主义也说不定。
中国人也信教啊,比如六朝至唐朝。另外,藏民信佛,西域由佛及伊
斯兰,都是诚实地信教的。。。
故而中国人要引进佛教、伊斯兰教。这还不够,还有整个西方文化中呵呵,决斗也是由他人执行的自杀,很滑头啊。但是如果情人没有被别人抢走,只是自己失恋了,怎么办?
爱与死的演绎。有一件事,就是决斗,是因为基督教不兴自杀的,故
而失情受辱之后,一般想到的不是自杀,是决斗中一杀。
我这里谈决斗,浮生把宾语换主语了。滑头:)
换就换吧。如果是自己失恋,就象费加罗跟凯鲁比诺唱的:
男子汉,大丈夫,就要当兵。
干一番功名后再回来晃耀,也不迟。
- posted on 09/25/2006
浮生 wrote:
July wrote:这里有两个问题,一个是为什么中国自己没有产生宗教?另一个是为什么传来的宗教也没能立足?
浮生的问题有意思。现在,世界上主要宗教是犹太教,基督教和伊斯兰教。基督教是从犹太教延伸和分离来的。伊斯兰教是摘取基督教加以改装的。从基督教传播的角度上看,中国太远了,没传健J遣皇钦饩褪侵泄挥凶诮痰脑颍恳蛭陀《瓤拷苑鸾滔喽粤餍小?
中国自己产生的宗教---禅,也由日本人传到欧美了的。
另外,译经也是产生宗教的过程。梁启超在整理四部阿含后感慨:任
何佛经都是翻译文字。这个在西方是一样的,在伊斯兰是一样的,在
希伯莱呢?上古犹太肯定说的不是希伯莱语(拼音文字)。
再说,耶酥说的是什么语?好象有部电影的。
新约是古希腊语编撰的。
传来的宗教未能立足。
“传来的宗教”向来是要依靠本土化而立足的,英国有英国国教,德
国有马丁路德,中国也有慧远智者玄奘。
怎么说呢:远来的和尚好念经。或者如耶酥感慨:任何人在本乡,则
难成就为圣人。。。
第一个问题我在想,是不是只有游牧民族才会创真正的宗教?比如犹太教。又比如印度教,如果确实是亚利安人带入的话。基督教还是传到中国了。唐代的景教就是基督教的一支。佛教虽然到了中国,是不是也变了味儿?宗教在一个地方的传播当时当地君主的取向很重要,比如没有君士坦丁,基督教就未必在罗马帝国那么快立足;景教,佛教在中国的传播也都有皇帝支持,但是后来又灭佛。那从另一个角度讲,宗教的传播到底是偶然还是必然呢?
应该说,游牧民族才会创造“一神教”,黄沙漫天的。
“亚利安”在巴利语中是“高贵”的意思。这个不能以西方的人类学
为评判。佛陀苦修开悟,是在大雪山下的尼泊尔,不游牧的。
谢谢浮生,再讨论!
- Re: Thanatologyposted on 09/25/2006
八十一子 wrote:
嘿嘿,有点‘数典忘祖’哈。:-)
八十一子批评的是,我对宗教理解很狭隘,也很肤浅,并且说着说着还换概念。多谢你转的文章,容我慢慢读,有问题再来问。
xw 又谈及译经,我觉这是语言范畴,真跟宗教有关吗?提到中国的西藏,西域,呵呵,不是我搞民族分裂,可是觉着他们和“中土人”很不同那。亚利安我也有问题,呆会儿来问。 - posted on 09/25/2006
浮生君客气了。
Karen Armstrong 的新书 “The Great Transformation: The World in the Time of Buddha, Socrates, Confucius and Jeremiah (2006)” 讨论人类启蒙期 (The Axial Age) 的宗教思想形成,值得一读。这四个人可都不是游牧民族的人啊。
有意思的是,同一本书在美国出版标题是 “The Great Transformation: The Beginning of Our Religious Traditions”. 从这个标题修改中反映出的美国公众思想狭隘可见一斑。
浮生 wrote:
八十一子 wrote:八十一子批评的是,我对宗教理解很狭隘,也很肤浅,并且说着说着还换概念。多谢你转的文章,容我慢慢读,有问题再来问。
嘿嘿,有点‘数典忘祖’哈。:-) - Re: Thanatologyposted on 09/25/2006
I hope the academic investigation can include suicide bombers. :) - Re: Thanatologyposted on 09/26/2006
Maybe lingHu can get a PH.D on suicide bombers. :)
令胡冲 wrote:
I hope the academic investigation can include suicide bombers. :) - Re: Thanatologyposted on 09/26/2006
我正好在写一篇文章,里面有“七十译本”,给你做个注. 不过,我说的是旧约 :)
"城里的犹太人的祭司長以利沙,邀请十二支族的文士將犹太人的律法译成希腊文,由各支族各自派出了六人,共七十二人,这就是著名的七十士译本,它是新约时代通行的旧约圣经希腊文译本。"
xw wrote:
新约是古希腊语编撰的。
- Re: Thanatologyposted on 09/26/2006
xw wrote:
换就换吧。如果是自己失恋,就象费加罗跟凯鲁比诺唱的:
男子汉,大丈夫,就要当兵。
干一番功名后再回来晃耀,也不迟。
呵呵,自杀花样还满多的吗。 - Re: Thanatologyposted on 09/26/2006
浮生:Have you watched french Kiss yet?
Lucy told me samething:请你今晚熬夜都要看。:-))
lucy wrote:
没答案, 但请你今晚熬夜都要看。:-))
浮生 wrote:
Lucy wrote:弄来了,还没顾上看。怎么,里边有答案吗?
浮生 wrote:Have you watched french Kiss yet?
但是如果情人没有被别人抢走,只是自己失恋了,怎么办? - Re: Thanatologyposted on 09/26/2006
跑题太远了....
看来我得慎言 :-)))
希望你们喜欢!这个电影是给头脑象我一样简单的人看的, 只是太好玩了。
- posted on 09/26/2006
xw wrote:
另外,译经也是产生宗教的过程。梁启超在整理四部阿含后感慨:任
何佛经都是翻译文字。这个在西方是一样的,在伊斯兰是一样的,在
希伯莱呢?上古犹太肯定说的不是希伯莱语(拼音文字)。
再说,耶酥说的是什么语?好象有部电影的。
你是说Aramaic?犹太人也讲过希伯莱语呀,后来才变成神职专用。为什么说任何佛经都是翻译,梵文佛经呢?另外可兰经翻译的不是就不算可兰经了么?为什么说译经是产生宗教的过程呢?译经是传播宗教的手段,虽然可作为改革宗教的手段(比如路德译经),但如果译经是以传播为目的,也会产生新宗教吗?因为译走样了?
应该说,游牧民族才会创造“一神教”,黄沙漫天的。
恩,准确多了。但为什么?
“亚利安”在巴利语中是“高贵”的意思。这个不能以西方的人类学
为评判。佛陀苦修开悟,是在大雪山下的尼泊尔,不游牧的。
到底有没有亚利安入侵这说?印度人反对,但历史书这么写。现在公认的是怎样?如果有,吠陀是不是他们带来的呢?印度的 caste 制度应当是对外族入侵统治的反应?请 xw 和其他朋友谈谈,这个我一直很糊涂的。
另,这是 Aryan 词源:
1601, as a term in classical history, from L. Ariana, from Gk. Aria name applied to various parts of western Asia, ult. from Skt. Arya-s "noble, honorable, respectable," the name Sanskrit-speaking invaders of India gave themselves in the ancient texts, originally "belonging to the hospitable," from arya-s "lord, hospitable lord," originally "protecting the stranger," from ari-s "stranger." Ancient Persians gave themselves the same name (O.Pers. Ariya-), hence Iran (from Iranian eran, from Avestan gen. pl. airyanam). Aryan also was used (1861) by Ger. philologist Max Müller (1823-1900) to refer to "worshippers of the gods of the Brahmans," which he took to be the original sense. In comparative philology, Aryan was applied (by Pritchard, Whitney, etc.) to "the original Aryan language" (1847; Arian was used in this sense from 1839, but this spelling caused confusion with Arian, the term in ecclesiastical history), the presumed ancestor of a group of related, inflected languages mostly found in Europe but also including Sanskrit and Persian. In this sense it gradually was replaced by Indo-European (q.v.) or Indo-Germanic, except when used to distinguish I.E. languages of India from non-I.E. ones. It came to be applied, however, to the speakers of this group of languages (1851), on the presumption that a race corresponded to the language, especially in racist writings of French diplomat and man of letters J.A. de Gobineau (1816–82), e.g. "Essai sur l’inégalité des races humaines," 1853–55, and thence it was taken up in Nazi ideology to mean "member of a Caucasian Gentile race of Nordic type." As an ethnic designation, however, it is properly limited to Indo-Iranians, and most justly to the latter. - Re: Thanatologyposted on 09/26/2006
令胡冲 wrote:
I hope the academic investigation can include suicide bombers. :)
呵呵,suicide bomber 和基督教早期的 martyr 和我们后来的“抛头颅,洒热血“的烈士是一码事吧?
我还是推荐电影 Paradise Now,不知写的是个例还是典型形象,但对我对 suicide bomber 的理解很有帮助。 - posted on 09/26/2006
浮生 wrote:
令胡冲 wrote:呵呵,suicide bomber 和基督教早期的 martyr 和我们后来的“抛头颅,洒热血“的烈士是一码事吧?
I hope the academic investigation can include suicide bombers. :)
My understanding:
Suicide bombers are terrorists who attach explosives to themselves, and, consequently, die along with their victims in a bombing attack.
Japanese kamikaze pilots in WWII, terrorists in 911, 黄继光、董存瑞 are all suicide bombers. Patriots act on the loves, and belief to support and defend their's country, but when two countries are at war, there can be patriots on both sides, from each side's point of view.
Martyr (殉道士) is different. A martyr does not usually engage in an act of violence, terror, and intimidation to withhold or/and advance a belief, cause, or principle. He/she does not kill himself/herself along with others but is killed or suffered for his/her religion or beliefs. - Re: Thanatologyposted on 09/26/2006
rzp wrote:
Martyr (殉道士) is different. A martyr does not usually engage in an act of violence, terror, and intimidation to withhold or/and advance a belief, cause, or principle. He/she does not kill himself/herself along with others but is killed or suffered for his/her religion or beliefs.
A very good point. - posted on 09/26/2006
July wrote:
我正好在写一篇文章,里面有“七十译本”,给你做个注. 不过,我说的是旧约 :)
"城里的犹太人的祭司長以利沙,邀请十二支族的文士將犹太人的律法译成希腊文,由各支族各自派出了六人,共七十二人,这就是著名的七十士译本,它是新约时代通行的旧约圣经希腊文译本。"
xw wrote:
新约是古希腊语编撰的。
我在咖啡里敲了一系列犹太三藏经典的,里面提到了七十子,属于次
要经典,伪经?
http://www.mayacafe.com/forum/topic1.php3?tkey=1127393668
怕对你写字有参考价植。恭候你的新作!
- posted on 09/27/2006
浮生 wrote:
xw wrote:你是说Aramaic?犹太人也讲过希伯莱语呀,后来才变成神职专用。为什么说任何佛经都是翻译,梵文佛经呢?另外可兰经翻译的不是就不算可兰经了么?为什么说译经是产生宗教的过程呢?译经是传播宗教的手段,虽然可作为改革宗教的手段(比如路德译经),但如果译经是以传播为目的,也会产生新宗教吗?因为译走样了?
另外,译经也是产生宗教的过程。梁启超在整理四部阿含后感慨:任
何佛经都是翻译文字。这个在西方是一样的,在伊斯兰是一样的,在
希伯莱呢?上古犹太肯定说的不是希伯莱语(拼音文字)。
再说,耶酥说的是什么语?好象有部电影的。
梵文佛经恐怕只有佛教学者还在读研。况且,如是我闻,佛陀是不会
讲梵语的,有人说他说巴利语,我觉得印度方言那么多。。。
思想与语言的关系应该是很大的,索绪尔以后的哲学都讲这个。我也
以为新约受到希腊哲学很大的影响,耶酥受难有苏格拉底的影子。
前面谈到诗人之译与学者之译,译经除了是国家大业以外,更是诗人
之译(有创生之涵蕴),罗什译的佛经,兼有编撰综汇的。
西方来说嘛,路德一译经,詹姆斯王一译经,天主教皇就管叫不动了
,就三十年战争了,就克伦威尔了。。。
可兰经的译本我还不太了解,但波斯的可兰经,土尔其和新疆的版本
肯定不一样。这个再容我三思。。。
这只是沿着梁启超的思路,也许是条死路,但颇值得玩味!我从译经
中看到所谓“文明的生起”:比如说,译经过程中必然升华一些原语
的意象(平俗或不堪的),再说,译经过程必然创生逻辑考据版本较
对等一大批人文学科门类,再再说,创生出一整套近现代科学艺术的
思维也说不定。。。
应该说,游牧民族才会创造“一神教”,黄沙漫天的。恩,准确多了。但为什么?
“亚利安”在巴利语中是“高贵”的意思。这个不能以西方的人类学到底有没有亚利安入侵这说?印度人反对,但历史书这么写。现在公认的是怎样?如果有,吠陀是不是他们带来的呢?印度的 caste 制度应当是对外族入侵统治的反应?请 xw 和其他朋友谈谈,这个我一直很糊涂的。
为评判。佛陀苦修开悟,是在大雪山下的尼泊尔,不游牧的。
有这么一说,但是假说。印度河谷有文明,摩享佐达多,见赋格茫崖
记:
http://www.mayacafe.com/forum/topic1.php3?tkey=1097729614
caste 制度不必外族入侵,这个列维-斯特劳斯在《忧郁的热带》中
对印度作了很好的人类学分析。推荐浮生一读。
浮生问问题,就象我家三岁半的嘟嘟一样--打破沙锅问到底?
我觉得,问题应该一个一个,一步一步来,好么?
另,这是 Aryan 词源:
1601, as a term in classical history, from L. Ariana, from Gk. Aria name applied to various parts of western Asia, ult. from Skt. Arya-s "noble, honorable, respectable," the name Sanskrit-speaking invaders of India gave themselves in the ancient texts, originally "belonging to the hospitable," from arya-s "lord, hospitable lord," originally "protecting the stranger," from ari-s "stranger." Ancient Persians gave themselves the same name (O.Pers. Ariya-), hence Iran (from Iranian eran, from Avestan gen. pl. airyanam). Aryan also was used (1861) by Ger. philologist Max Müller (1823-1900) to refer to "worshippers of the gods of the Brahmans," which he took to be the original sense. In comparative philology, Aryan was applied (by Pritchard, Whitney, etc.) to "the original Aryan language" (1847; Arian was used in this sense from 1839, but this spelling caused confusion with Arian, the term in ecclesiastical history), the presumed ancestor of a group of related, inflected languages mostly found in Europe but also including Sanskrit and Persian. In this sense it gradually was replaced by Indo-European (q.v.) or Indo-Germanic, except when used to distinguish I.E. languages of India from non-I.E. ones. It came to be applied, however, to the speakers of this group of languages (1851), on the presumption that a race corresponded to the language, especially in racist writings of French diplomat and man of letters J.A. de Gobineau (1816–82), e.g. "Essai sur l’inégalité des races humaines," 1853–55, and thence it was taken up in Nazi ideology to mean "member of a Caucasian Gentile race of Nordic type." As an ethnic designation, however, it is properly limited to Indo-Iranians, and most justly to the latter. - posted on 09/27/2006
xw wrote:
梵文佛经恐怕只有佛教学者还在读研。况且,如是我闻,佛陀是不会
讲梵语的,有人说他说巴利语,我觉得印度方言那么多。。。
梵语和巴利语都是书面语言。所以xw说的不错,佛陀说的必是某种口语方言,大概和巴利语一系的。查了一下,阿育王的很多碑铭用的就是巴利语,斯里兰卡的佛经也是。后来才完全被梵文取而代之。所以说佛经都是翻译还真是大致不错呢。
这只是沿着梁启超的思路,也许是条死路,但颇值得玩味!我从译经
中看到所谓“文明的生起”:比如说,译经过程中必然升华一些原语
的意象(平俗或不堪的),再说,译经过程必然创生逻辑考据版本较
对等一大批人文学科门类,再再说,创生出一整套近现代科学艺术的
思维也说不定。。。
这个有道理。便从浅的说,汉语的很多概念从梵文来,我们用的都不自觉。
有这么一说,但是假说。印度河谷有文明,摩享佐达多,见赋格茫崖
记:
但是亚利安入侵(如果有的话)是在Mohenjodaro之后,而且印度后来的文明与古印度文明有断裂。一种说法便是亚利安入侵截断了古印度文明,当然也可能古印度文明已经在衰落(如赋格文里提到的)。也就是说古印度文明的存在不能做反证。梵语和Dravidian是不同语系,若说两样都是本地产生的实在另人疑惑,印度又没有自然屏障。我看到的争论总有政治成分在里面,那样就讲不清了。有没有讨论这个比较客观的书推荐?先谢。
浮生问问题,就象我家三岁半的嘟嘟一样--打破沙锅问到底?
我觉得,问题应该一个一个,一步一步来,好么?
呵呵,xw 说我童心,这是夸我:)其实是我脑子里乱,问题一齐往上涌。
谢 xw 和八十一子推荐的书。是得静下心来好好看看书了。多谢。
另:French Kiss 看了,还好,没有熬夜。很 cute,谢 Lucy。
- posted on 09/27/2006
quotations-quotations-quotations...along this line...
“Man is the only animal that contemplates death, and also the only animal that shows any sign of doubt of its finality”.
William Ernest Hocking (1873 – 1966)
“Without wanting to deceive men, it can be said we have as much reason to believe in as to deny immortality of the being that thinks”.
François Marie Arouet de Voltaire (1694 – 1778)
“The result, therefore, of the physical enquiry is that we find no vestige of the beginning, noprospects at the end”.
James Hutton (1726 – 1797)
“All the labour of the ages, all the devotion, all the inspiration, all the noonday brightness of human genius are destined to destruction in the death of the solar system…”
Lord Bertrand Arthur William Russell (1872 – 1970).
“Buddhism, Jainism and some other ancient Indian
traditions… do not accept the theory of God…
Even between the godless religions, there are differences.
Buddhists do no accept the theory of soul or permanent self.
Self, we say, is a momentarily changing.”
His Holiness Tenzin Gyatso, the XIV Dalai Lama.
“O Lord, if there is a Lord, save my soul, if there is a soul”.
Joseph Renan (1823 – 1890).
"Oh dear, if you are reading here, we are in the same soul family.”
rzp ( ... - ...)
- Re: Thanatologyposted on 09/28/2006
八十一子 wrote:
浮生君客气了。
是浮生MM。 - posted on 09/18/2008
xw wrote:
浮生 wrote:梵文佛经恐怕只有佛教学者还在读研。况且,如是我闻,佛陀是不会
xw wrote:你是说Aramaic?犹太人也讲过希伯莱语呀,后来才变成神职专用。为什么说任何佛经都是翻译,梵文佛经呢?另外可兰经翻译的不是就不算可兰经了么?为什么说译经是产生宗教的过程呢?译经是传播宗教的手段,虽然可作为改革宗教的手段(比如路德译经),但如果译经是以传播为目的,也会产生新宗教吗?因为译走样了?
另外,译经也是产生宗教的过程。梁启超在整理四部阿含后感慨:任
何佛经都是翻译文字。这个在西方是一样的,在伊斯兰是一样的,在
希伯莱呢?上古犹太肯定说的不是希伯莱语(拼音文字)。
再说,耶酥说的是什么语?好象有部电影的。
讲梵语的,有人说他说巴利语,我觉得印度方言那么多。。。
思想与语言的关系应该是很大的,索绪尔以后的哲学都讲这个。我也
以为新约受到希腊哲学很大的影响,耶酥受难有苏格拉底的影子。
前面谈到诗人之译与学者之译,译经除了是国家大业以外,更是诗人
之译(有创生之涵蕴),罗什译的佛经,兼有编撰综汇的。
西方来说嘛,路德一译经,詹姆斯王一译经,天主教皇就管叫不动了
,就三十年战争了,就克伦威尔了。。。
可兰经的译本我还不太了解,但波斯的可兰经,土尔其和新疆的版本
肯定不一样。这个再容我三思。。。
这个问题想通了。象前面七月说的,“伊斯兰教是摘取基督教加以改
装的。”,虽然重了些,但即使是阿拉伯语的《古兰经》,也是在依
《圣经》(旧新约)解决当时阿拉伯的问题。解说新旧约中的重要故
事与条例。。。当然,阿拉伯人本来就是闪米特人嘛。
&
佛教大乘经典的编汇,几乎都是用梵语进行的。阿育王时的早期经典
,估计是用的巴利语。但各种巴利语,也还是花样各异。比如伽楞的
,泰国的,估计缅甸的也还不一样。鲁汉就一直跟我争巴利语未成文
与统一的问题。
&
今天回这一线,真好的讨论啊!让我想起歌剧《波希米亚人》。
- RE: Thanatologyposted on 10/18/2012
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