混交性行为和胆小怯懦的关系?
之前在<红杏出墙和人尽可夫的好处>一文的评论中,曾经提到过 bonobo 这种倭
黑猩猩有个特性,就是他们是多夫多妻制、雄雌性体型均等、睾丸/身体体积的比例
较大、且把性行为当成握手般的频繁使用。相对的,其他种猩猩(如 central chimpanzee)
则比较偏向一夫多妻制、雄性体型较雌性体型大、睾丸/身体体积的比例较小。
会造成上述现象的里由很简单,就是 chimps 的世界是一个比看谁拳头大的社会,
拳头大、拿下首领地位后,就等于当上皇帝,一夫多妻、后宫三千。而这样的演化
的结果,就是会出现体型大、强壮的雄猩猩。
而在 bonobo 的世界中,则很少出现暴力,出了问题,大家不用暴力解决,只用性
来解决。既然 bonobo 的世界中少有暴力行为,那就没有必要浪费生殖资源去追求
强壮的身躯与大拳头。处在一个混交的世界,最重要的是要能拥有让最多雌性怀孕
的能力,所以这样的环境就演化出了「睾丸/身体体积的比例较大」的雄 bonobo,
因为这样才有机会制造多量的精子来应付夜夜笙歌、酒池肉林的日子。
以上都是老梗了,国中生大概都晓得。但一个还没有回答的问题是,在两种不同猩
猩尚未分化开的初期,为什么 chimps 的祖先比较暴力,但 bonobo 的祖先却比较
不暴力呢?有个可能解释是: chimps 的祖先可能是性情外向、大胆冲动的一群,
而 bonobo 的祖先是胆小怯懦的一群,因为,相对来说,胆小怯懦者比较不会出现
暴力相向的行为。
证据呢?最近在<Our Inner Ape>(by Frans de Waal)这本书上看到一个史迹,
可能提供了一个不错的证据,就是在二次大战,德国慕尼黑遭盟军炮轰后,动物园
虽然没被轰中,但经历了轰天巨响,结果动物园里的 chimps 都安然无恙,但 bonobo
都死光了。
原作者的解释是:因为胆小怯懦的 bonobo 都被吓死了... ... 至于合不合理嘛,
大家再想想吧。
Posted by Brown at 11/24/2006 06:26:00 PM
====
bonobo是个很“性”的猩猩类,转到这里,给Touche评评,
也给情人节!
这里还有更多详细的讨论:
http://cryofall.blogspot.com/2006/11/blog-post_25.html
- Re: ZT:混交性行为和胆小怯懦的关系?posted on 02/13/2008
多夫多妻制可真理想。
应该让bonobo带领人们闹革命,推翻现有不合理的婚姻制度。
- Re: ZT:混交性行为和胆小怯懦的关系?posted on 02/13/2008
这个恐怕要用控制实验来研究。
从描述上来看,这bonobo很像人类中的liberals。;) 生活开放,反对战争,容易自杀。;)
可能遗传上心理特质上真有类同点。 - Re: ZT:混交性行为和胆小怯懦的关系?posted on 02/13/2008
"出了问题,大家不用暴力解决,只用性来解决。"
I understand how fist can resolve conflicts, but don't see how sex can solve problems. Bribery with sex? :-) - Re: ZT:混交性行为和胆小怯懦的关系?posted on 02/13/2008
这个说法没有排除性暴力。;)
这样处理两种不同性质的矛盾:对敌人,强奸;对朋友,通奸。;)
guanzhong wrote:
"出了问题,大家不用暴力解决,只用性来解决。"
I understand how fist can resolve conflicts, but don't see how sex can solve problems. Bribery with sex? :-) - Re: ZT:混交性行为和胆小怯懦的关系?posted on 02/13/2008
不只是多夫多妻,bonobo还是primates里有名的lesbian,据说她们的lesbian行为也是社交:)
猩猩睾丸大小和mating pattern的关系,以前一条线里提到过,在这里:
http://www.mayacafe.com/forum/topic1sp.php3?tkey=1144352379 - Re: ZT:混交性行为和胆小怯懦的关系?posted on 02/13/2008
这个说法没有排除性暴力。;)
这样处理两种不同性质的矛盾:对敌人,强奸;对朋友,通奸。;)
raping a male competitor may require violence though. :-) - Re: ZT:混交性行为和胆小怯懦的关系?posted on 02/13/2008
guanzhong wrote:
"出了问题,大家不用暴力解决,只用性来解决。"
I understand how fist can resolve conflicts, but don't see how sex can solve problems. Bribery with sex? :-)
不是等出了问题才解决,是防患于未然,嘿嘿,make love not war:)Bonobo 不仅是 liberal 还是 feminist 呢。
- posted on 02/15/2008
情人节过了。我再摘两段Bonobo,主要是雌性的强势:
But among bonobos, females collectively dominate males. They do so by associating together, forming coalitions, and dominating their sons. Females dominate even to the point of taking prized foods from males. Kano stressed that males frequently behave submissively to dominant females. But females being females, the bonobo female hierarchy, based on residency and seniority, is relatively loose. Conflict and aggression in bonobo society(and it does occur, particularly in the dominance squabbles of the males) is frequently resolved by sexual contact.
What accounts for this difference between Mars and Venus? At least in part, the basic differences between robust[chimps] and gracile[bonobo-xw] chimpanzees can be explained by differences in their ecologies. Both species are ripe fruit-eaters, but the fruit trees utilized by bonobos generally are larger than those found in robust chimpanzee ranges, thus there is less competition for food. This also allows bonobo females to congregate in larger groups when feeding. But the trees may be only part of the story. Another part of the explanation, as first pointed out by Richard Wrangham, is the absence of gorillas in bonobo ranges. In most of the robust chimpanzee ranges, gorillas are sympatric. The gorilla's staple foods consist of abundant herbaceous groud vegetation. robust chimpanzees do not compete well with gorillas for the leafy greens of ground vegetation because gorillas are the ground vegetation specialists. Robust chimpanzees retain their fruit specialization and concentrate on fruit, as well as exploit other food sources such as termites and meat.
Birute Mary Galdikas, Greap Ape Odyssey, p.63.
Couple of lines before the starting "But":
robust chimpanzees males are almost totally dominant over females in the wild, where young adult robust chimpanzees first climb the adult female hierarchy and, having defeated all the females, begin their ascent up the male hierarchy. The lowest ranking adult male is always higher than the most dominant female.
http://www.solcomhouse.com/chimpanzees.htm - Re: ZT:混交性行为和胆小怯懦的关系?posted on 10/03/2008
今天看了一盒录像,The Last Ape,就是讲波诺波猿的。
很好看。波诺波猿的性也就是握手而已,但波诺波确实是母性强制的
社会,母猿间社会地位分明,孩子依赖母亲,雄性低一级。
据说,要在刚果先发现Bonobo,后发现Chimps,也许人类会朝和平
的方向进发一点。
希罗多德“历史”中说到小倭人,不是Bonobo吧? - Re: ZT:混交性行为和胆小怯懦的关系?posted on 10/03/2008
New Yorker had an article (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/07/30/070730fa_fact_parker) which debunked the supposedly peace loving Bonobo myth. It's a good read. - Re: ZT:混交性行为和胆小怯懦的关系?posted on 10/03/2008
根据韩国《朝鲜日报》的报道,韩国成均馆大学历史学系教授朴芬庆经过对产于非洲刚果河以南的一种倭黑猩猩仔细发掘研究,发现一直被认为是自古栖息在非洲热带气候地区的黑猩猩,竟然也具有韩国血统。
- posted on 10/04/2008
tar wrote:
New Yorker had an article (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/07/30/070730fa_fact_parker) which debunked the supposedly peace loving Bonobo myth. It's a good read.
thanks, this ?
It is one of the oddities of the bonobo world—and a source of frustration to some—that Frans de Waal, of Emory University, the high-profile Dutch primatologist and writer, who is the most frequently quoted authority on the species, has never seen a wild bonobo.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/bonobos/dewaal.html
De Waal: I first saw them in 1978. At the time, I knew a lot about chimps, because I had been studying them. I saw the bonobos at a zoo in Holland, and I thought immediately, they're totally different. The sense you get looking them in the eyes is that they're more sensitive, more sensual, not necessarily more intelligent, but there's a high emotional awareness, so to speak, of each other and also of people who look at them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frans_de_Waal
Dr. Frances White's home page:
http://www.uoregon.edu/~fwhite/
Takayoshi Kano
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/bonobo.html?c=y&page=2
In 1973, a 35-year-old Japanese researcher named Takayoshi Kano, the first scientist to study bonobos extensively in the wild, spent months trudging through the dank forests of what was then Zaire (formerly the Belgian Congo, now the Democratic Republic of the Congo) before he finally encountered a foraging party of ten adults.
&
http://www.amazon.com/Last-Ape-Chimpanzee-Behavior-Ecology/dp/0804716129
the Last Ape (Takayoshi Kano)
seriously.
- Re: ZT:混交性行为和胆小怯懦的关系?posted on 10/05/2008
lkdlakdaldka wrote:
根据韩国《朝鲜日报》的报道,韩国成均馆大学历史学系教授朴芬庆经过对产于非洲刚果河以南的一种倭黑猩猩仔细发掘研究,发现一直被认为是自古栖息在非洲热带气候地区的黑猩猩,竟然也具有韩国血统。
LOL!
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