ѧһѧʵĻκκܶʱζͬ룬һȽŵĿdzķһ£Ҳܸı˶ѧȤƫŻ߲ţһɣǴҪ
־ƣ塡죩
άٿȫ飬־ǡǶж;ߵĿΪѧңģ䡡ȣΪֻҪûΡûд־ж־֮Ϊˣ˳㰲οһ䣺ѧõļʺӸ塱͵ĸʱһʳ͡Լʣؾ¡
ɷϣÿһˣԼ־ôԶΪʲôѧңǶԡû־⣬۲ݣ
Ԥۣģ
ϲ־̨ϷģԤۡԤĸ
һȫ֪ȫܵϵۣʱƣܿƺ֪йȥδ
ѧң̣ΪҪ֪ijʼʱ֮ʲôȫݱ䡣̣壧˹״̬ϸڡ˵ijʱijijӱбֻҪ㶮ţٶʣû֮ǰͿÿһȷλáٶȵȵȡԽ֪ȫȡɡ
Ԥ֪־ìܣ˵һƩס¶ʮգѡȥҲѡȥֻᡣϵ۽ѾԤ֪ѡȥԤȰ¼ϡסˣ쵽ˣȻԼѡ֣ʵȥ֡ϵ۵Ԥ֪Ǵˣȫ֪ϵ˵Dzܷġ
˵Ϊϵ۲ʱƣûйȥϵⲢһܺõĽ͡룬ϵдϡ¶ʮտǣϵԤ֪Լôд¶ʮտˣʵûȥֻѡ
ԼСʵûеģͽСҲԽСþɴɼ־ʵһѧң£䣧ȣ顰ԣ塡ӣ桡Σ塱ģ졡ףġԣ塡ɣ桡ãף족ϸ
壨ã
ݡָ־Ԥݣ߲ìܡ⣬ֻоپѧ˵
ԣȣΪ־ȻᱻԤޣ˵жɵġԼãΪֻҪûΪ߷Ϊȥֹ˵ж˾ǡɡ
ֽѧңģ졡ģҲżݡѧһýȥ͵ġʲôСԤܶ˶ΪɱĽΪǻᷢģνɱ⡱̸ֻijһ顱Ƿû⡣˱שɵϤ˻㣬ʱÿʱ㲻ԭʼû־ǡ⡱שġԽԽߡ߿ܶܺÿһһо٣Լ
ۣɣ
Ԥ෴ѧǡۡڡ塱ΪʲôԤпΪûϵҲпֻijЩȻ仰˵ЩķΪǰ
Ų۵˺ܶ࣬дϣ塡ƣ桡塡ף족Ŀͽ屾ӣдУ桡ƣߣң桡ӣо۵ߡΪΪδܿ϶˲־־ѡеΡ
ѧѣ
ѧʼȣ硰ⲻԭգУ壩˵µλúͳͬʱԭһ˻أߵõܴĹ裬ΪѧվDZߵġ
˹̹ԡϵ۲ӡΪɣ˵λ֮ԲⲻֻΪʵ߲֪ġαֱûҵЩαѧҡ֤Сɣ϶˲ⲻԭԡ
ҪעǣȻⲻĸʣȴѧȷԭĵӣһλöвͬĸʣɫdzġơ
ԣ
õļġģ衡洢ǿⲻȷĸʣܹ
־ûì𣿻УһƽǮңĸһ롢ĸҲһ롣ͬȥȥ֣ȫģӦһһ룻Ҫ־Ӱ죬ҪЩҪֶЩȻʾͲٿǣСԣ
Ϊ壨£
ѧרҵѧһͻѧڣͷѧӧݧӣĹ˸ܳʵ飬ÿιʱҡ塣䣬ҡûʳҲˮ
ѧΪɣѧʷǣ£ƣӣΪΪ棬û־֮ʮʮ䶯һʱΪһһ繷ˮһԶ䡣Ϊǰһйijij־ڻijжʷǵףԣ͡£䡡ƣ䡡ģϸ˵
仰˵˵κΪֻأ
һŴ
һĻ;
עǣŴͻأⱾһ۵Ľ㣩϶Ŵͻ֮ΪҲȫԱܿ϶û־Ϊء
ϸ
е·϶ɡšһԪɡšΣΣġ塡һĵ·붼ǣʱǣһ߶ǣʱǣ
üڸַdzϳһdzӵĵԣָӵ顣ؼǣ·ôӣһ룬һȫǸݻе¡
˼άϸÿһϸ·Ҳ࣬мǧ룬һȥϸ塡ֻȫеԵ㡣һϸš롢һֹբ루ǵֻͬʱ壬ǽֹբûʱ塣
Ȼһǧڸϸÿһ϶һͼôĶһǻеԹӵϸһһȡοܵĵӰһǧڸ֮ӿտҲûСɷۡҲûСҺûСʲôʣҵȥˣУҵ־أһϸ棿
£̣һСͣ䡡ԣ塱飬һЩѧԶӰʵ顣һ֪ǸйٸеɵѶţеﲻ߶ˣȻԣ˵ʶŸеһ־ԸߣȰݵ;ҵȻõ缫ԣģ¸йֱӰѶŷԡ֣ú״ѹ塢ƵʣѶű賤ڣ.룬ЧӦѶҪǶڣ.룬˸оԹܶ־Ըߣһ֤˵۸оУ.ӵӳ٣㲢֡
ʵ־ԸߺѣȫûвʹĸоΪȻȫоӣӱûʹʹܸеӱ
ûдƹһԱ㣺ݿôôءӦȥ棿棿ԶģģٶȷȻĻȥʵһõƹԱӿĻֻҪ.롣
ʶҲã.֮ŻУ.Ѿģԣӷȫʱ䣬ҲDZʶƵģΪʶڻ֮ûӳءɼʶʵԱĻþ
ǣеʶҪĴ
ǣеĴʶҪ
һԡڴڲǸµġDZʶһջеж˻һԡڴƤ㣬ǵʶ˳Ϊ־ܶѧΪʶֻһ֡еֵӰӣȻಽʵжȴȫûӰ졣ҵҸоʵDZĩãȶ֣Ȼ١롱ȥֻѾ˵֣
ѧһ֧ܡΪʷģʣͣãѧԺģͣͣͣҲһֽܣļҺܺ棬컨µһѧԳ̩ɽһȥûп̩ɽԿ֩ˡܣüģ˵ܡһꡰģ𡡣£壩˹ھˣйạ̃ȹ壸ӣͶԪûм콱Χ˵ˡʱգЩ¼dz⡣
ԽԽȻ˻ʣûпܣгһսøһԽרҡͣңˣ죨ࣩ͡ģȣֽǸͷԣ塢Σ롢ף졡ӣʣ졢£ףȸ־涼ǹΪǿ϶ġʣͣǼ־˵ûС־һ£ûУҲûУ
ʵ鷢ʡ
ѧҿʼо˼άʱûèʵ顣ʮʼһ˺ܶӵʵ顣оԱѵ缫־ԸߴԻƤ㣨ֱõϵ־Ը߿оԱԻǿʲôҲԼͷϵĵ缫
ƪޣϸﲻ̸ˡܵ˵Ը˼άԡұߣҴԸֱߡ缫ҴijֵĵطоԱǵ缫һ壬־Ը߾ͻ֣ԲˬȻ̫̫죬ƣ͡
ֵǣоԱ־ԸΪʲô֣־Ը˵ԼġңҪǿȰְס죬ջΪʲô㲻죿ʹʹʹΪʲô֣˵ߺұһ¡˵Ҫȥץ棨ûг棩˵жסңҰߣûж
ˣ˵ǵ缫Ĺϵƽû塣ûе缫£Щ̼Ƥ壬ǴģǶ־Ըߵĸо˼ά˵岻ǵ缫ġģû־ԸΪ߶Լ־֪оԱڲݡ
־ʵһܸӵĹǡҾУСôѧҵѿ˵룬ڡã̫磬֪ʵ顣һ룺־Ը֣Dz־
ʵڼ
ʵõ豸һ˲ŪѧңӣУһȽʵ顣ÿζ飬ֵһԡ
ʵҪˡһķ䣬Դţ쿪棬㿴еǧַϷӡȻȫɡ˶磺ָ߾ٹͷǰ졢˫־һ¡˫´ȵȡ£ǰҰᶯؼǣ۰ҪȫɣڲܿˣĻһҪ˸ָʼʱ֪ҲãDZǣһᣬ֣㾹ȻԼڶԼ֣£
Ϊ˽£˵ˣʹû־Ҳʾ˲ҪԼΪΡٸӣãũʧգĴڣΡԼҲø𣬺οԼΪDzԼ־ܲƽ𣿶ԣ˵Цϵۣ˶ŵþˣ־Ū˺¶ĥҪ˵ҽ˵ۼţ
֪飿µ⣬ܵÿһ鶼ۣλԼáߵĿģֻں˵Ȥ
ûʱ俴ô飬Կģȣͣģġԣ塡ͣ䣧ɡǷʶѧ༭ɡ⣬ʣӣġԣ塡ͣ桡ãܽã롢ţУ塢ģãͣңѧҶ־Ŀ
ȣDZ飬һӰ֣桡塡£Լӵ·ūϿţءᵽĺüѧұˣӰʹֵһǰһֱһԼҵԴȡĻеˣһˡڶһһ쵽ԽĻеˣŸ
Ӱʡȣ㲻гһգ˻Ȩͳࣿ˵ʱûֿܡҪǽֻ˽ɱźôġ˽Ļеͳ磬ʲôã
ƪޣûдϸڡв֮ӭλשС⡱שġ
- Re: 华夏快递 : 谈自由意志posted on 09/11/2007
һκ Caltech һĵ֪̼ܵ紥ͨԲűǸ֪ġΪʲôǾЩоǾֲģ磬ָϣ
˵ʵŲӣʱڳԷܵĴڲӵijϣҲ˵ӳֵӳˡȻо
ϧûĻЩʱʵ顣 - posted on 09/12/2007
ƪ̸־һ̸̸ִѧʵ飬Ȼ˵ѧȷҲ
ѧ볣˸ʮǧ
ʲôһľȷȣһȷȣһ־
ȷȣAIһ־ȷȡ
յ÷ӹ켣Сɼ
ԵĻ̵ۣۣ
־־ì:)
&&&
ȷڣݡõˡ(ͬMillerɵ
족)־ܿɹǼѡ
ûС족ĵطû۵ǰᣬǸӢ壬
Զ
&&&
ѧܷ˹̹ʷ͡ӣϳһ
ʷƻס
תһʷ͡ĸɣ
Epilouge, Sting - Ten Summoner's Tales.
Lay my head on the surgeon's table
Take me fingerprints if you are able
Pick my brains, pick my pockets
Steal my eyeballs and come back for the sockets
Run every kind of test from a to z
And you'll still know nothing 'bout me
Run my name through your computer
Mention me in passing to your college tutor
Check my records, check my facts
Check if I paid my income tax
Pore over everything in my c.v.
But you'll still know nothing 'bout me
You'll still know nothing 'bout me
You don't need to read no books on my history
I'm a simple man, it's no big mystery
In the cold weather, a hand needs a glove
At times like this, a lonely man like me needs love
Search my house with a fine tooth comb
Turn over everything 'cause I won't be at home
Set up your microscope and tell me what you see
You'll still know nothing 'bout me
ҲɵȽڿѧǰۡ
- Re: 也谈谈不自由意志posted on 09/12/2007
xw wrote:
ҲɵȽڿѧǰۡ
غЩνĿѧҡҲֻǰ̿ı¶ѣйĽ̿顣 - Re: 也谈谈不自由意志posted on 09/12/2007
ƪ°ѿѧڹ־۽ȤҲֻڿѧչۡڽѾһȫ֪ȫܵѧҲе¹淶Σû־ڵĿռ䡣 - posted on 09/12/2007
xw wrote:
ƪ̸־һ̸̸ִѧʵ飬Ȼ˵ѧȷҲ
ѧ볣˸ʮǧ
xwӭ
˵̸ѧʵԭ̸ѧҲи˼ʮǧ :-)
˵ģѧһЩ˼⣬˵ٺһ㣬ѧܸѧһ߲εҪ˵IJһ㣬ѧһЩŵӻ⣬ѧʷˡΪѧܻشԼκ⡣ֻеǶij֪ʱѧҺڽ̼зȨһ֪ʶֻпѧзȨˡ
ѻ˵ļЩۡ:-)
- posted on 09/12/2007
CND ϵӰ
ͬһʱҪʶIJ룬ʱҪ翪ѧʱÿһʶģԺһ߿һΣһпĶȫʶģ̵ͣȵȣƹdzƣѧϰʱʶľ֮ʶģžνġ䡱롰־û̫ϵ
ȤǴʶľϣܰ廯漰ѧ˵ڽˣ磬Ӿʱ kick board ȴˮӱʱԴұתҲԴתһ˵ֻǸϰ⣬뿼ǡ˵Ϊ뵽־⣬ıתͳһʶľ뿴ȣ漰ŴȵЩ߲εء
Ͽҵ־ԴıתоԵľȨȻ㻹ǿ argue ʵʲôҲԤģΪҴұתٻصȥ֤ʵҲԴתֳΪѧ⣬˵ˡϣԼ⡣
ʱҹⲻʶľ뿴һıת߶зȻĽˮƽ漴ͣŷ֪λרҶֿĽңûϸˮƽϵĽ͡
.........
I guess there are different aspects and different levels regarding the issue of free will. But to me the simplest issues at the lowest level are most interesting, because they are more mechanical and farthest away from philosophy (which asks a lot of interesting questions without being able to answer any, and is mostly opinions instead of facts, sorry if I offended someone. ), and are therefore more likely generate some tangible and meaningful discussions.
Indeed my example does not involve any high-level factors such as emotion, preference, habits, and practical consequences, because I want to simplify the matter to the farthest extent. But it does concern the fundamental issues of free will at the most basic level: do I in fact have the choice in terms of which way to turn? Is the decision totally up to my free will, or maybe some other hidden variables? When I purposely avoid making a decision, what will happen, and what is likely the fundamental mechanism underneath the fact that I turned one way but not the other? - Re: 自由意志posted on 09/12/2007
ðԭ߰Ū۲˼
guanzhong wrote:
CND ϵӰ
- posted on 09/12/2007
ZTCNDһӣ
Ǹ reductionist (or hierarchical reductionism)ʶǸ̫ӵ⣬ֽθо awareness, ǰ߲ܶأƻߣѧϰ飬etc.) ʶĺӾӦ self awareness , Ȼܲ졣кǿķжȽļҲû self awareness, ġʶ̸𡣵ĸӳ̶Ӽ˵ɣڣҲš
visual awareness, 壬 tangible, ԶѧԶڽ̣ڿѧѾ well defined ˡ
Щߵȶ self awareness, ȫǿܶǿġһʶмȤĽ (Christof Koch) 죬һҧʶġܶಸ鶯ﶼӦˣӾ˵ˡ
ôͳѧѧķоʶûг·ֻкִԿѧϲſеãЩ Patricia Churchland. ڽʿ̸ʶdzԱ˳ŵģ:-)
:
robinchang д:
곤һ־ԭĵʮڣ
http://my.cnd.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=41497&forum=1 ǣ˺ܶڽɫʣԲ
Consciousness ܶ࣬ûһǴҹϵġҶĿرȤ˺ܶܶʱ䣬ҵõ鼸ˣźڻһͷˮұ룬ʦòʧԭĶ롰consciousnessءʦΣòֹʹֹͣ롢ʧ䣨һҽʽҽѧȫᡰconsciousness
ѧѧֻоӵֻobservable behavior̸֤ʵҸоһܺõơˣҲܶΪ롢ijֺ consciousness壬consciousness
УҪ֪ԼҲΪ self-conscious±棬ԳᣨӴֲᣩʶԼҲ self-consciousҸоҾ飬˭֪
ֹ壬Ϊڿѧ֪Ķܻ֪ܿʮǰ˭µõ PET fMRI Կõ˼ά˭µõŴֵģguanzhong13˵ŵýFrancis CrickҲҲȥģۣҲǶļ
ʵ飬Ǿ̫ˣϣܰѽ֪һ¡ - posted on 09/13/2007
оһ㡰־Ȼǻ̵֧֮һ
ϵۡ겻־
pure reason, rightly exercised, suffices to establish the essentials of the Christian faith, more especially God, immortality, and free will.
صѧʷ־жʮ˴ɼ־
ǻ̵⣬Ҳѧϲּۡ
ӷ
ڡ־һЩ(wikipedia)
̲ǿ־ԵԿշ˵Ĵ
ڶԵͺ϶ɵģʵϲһ־Եɣ
һҪǡҡֻͬԵۺϣ
һ㳣ġԡ
۹˵ȻɲǾԣ־ҲǺ㳣䣬
־Է˵һҪӦɮ
˼ϵɣⲢһҪ־ָ
ǷͽĽǷνԵ𡱣ǡ
ҵ۵һ֡
־ܸ
־ѡԼΪѧۣ
ʱҲõϻԵ˹ǻϣ(˵족-
-xw) ־ΪԵжܵڶڽ֧֯֡ʷ
ŵɯ˼˼Ϊߵʶ̬(̫˼
ļԣϣ˼--xw) һʹϣпۺ۵
壬жߵжȫԤӰ죬ж
ΪԼжԼ־
־Ҫܹڽ̡ѧȷ棬
ԣڽ̷룬־ζȫܵƿظ
˵־ѡѧ־ζڵҪ
ΪѧζIJݶڿѧ
־ζĶڣȫ
־ѧѧʷһֱǺ⡣
&&&
ϲԼһЩʷ磬˼Щ
⡣Ҳ˵
һǼסά-˹˹Ǿ仰ѧо;!
һп
⡰־Ĵ۴ڽ̵ѧǷ
̵Ĺ()һ֧ͺյӣȻɢ
ڿеļ䣬αʼǡ
- Re: 自由意志posted on 09/13/2007
աʥǸþǸǶ֪ȥѡӪ߹ʵϱȻԻϵۻɺѾΪѡˡѡܲ̽ΪӱʹȻӲɵسԺܲhe has to! ;) - Re: 自由意志posted on 09/13/2007
touche wrote:
աʥǸþǸǶ֪ȥѡӪ߹ʵϱȻԻϵۻɺѾΪѡˡѡܲ̽ΪӱʹȻӲɵسԺܲhe has to! ;)
ӾұתʲôʹȻÿζҪϵۻɺҾ - Re: 自由意志posted on 09/13/2007
ܶԣɱȣǼɱȡܰһжڿԭ˵ӰЩ̫С̫٣˵ˡ
ԤУȡ֮̾һԽԽ˷ԤۣںܶݻָˡһǶϲίдʡѧʵӰܴء - posted on 09/13/2007
û˵ͷ¿ΪѲݵм䲻ƫв֪һѺöնĹ£;)
Other things being equal, Ҳ涼Ůin sightתתпȡIJԳԡҲ˵ֵëûеģֻϵ۲Сϵ˵ԼˣпǰɺǹһȱݵġӾתȶģԭġ֤ϡ
guanzhong wrote:
ӾұתʲôʹȻÿζҪϵۻɺҾ - Re: 自由意志posted on 09/13/2007
Touche ֮ì֮˰ɣһ˵ϵˣһ֮ԷϵûϹһbody ȻѾİ
:-)
touche wrote:ϵ˵ԼˣпǰɺǹһȱݵġӾתȶģԭġ֤ϡ
guanzhong wrote:
ӾұתʲôʹȻÿζҪϵۻɺҾ - Re: 自由意志posted on 09/13/2007
ϵµĵػ,˷ӵmaximum߶(I.E."").
췿ӲҪ͵ķ,־ - posted on 09/13/2007
touche wrote:
û˵ͷ¿ΪѲݵм䲻ƫв֪һѺöնĹ£;)
ͬڣ¿еѡѲмֻѡңڳӱײҵѡ
Other things being equal, Ҳ涼Ůin sightתתпȡIJԳԡҲ˵ֵëûеģֻϵ۲Сϵ˵ԼˣпǰɺǹһȱݵġӾתȶģԭġ֤ϡ
guanzhong wrote:
ӾұתʲôʹȻÿζҪϵۻɺҾ
preferenceij˵ľ־ijֿġҲӵIJȷԣȻҲӼԿӰ쵽͡κֽʵ˵һ۲Ϊʹ60 40 preferenceҲȷģΪÿζ60һʤ60 40ĸʣֽܿܳ֡
ۣκһһҲԳƵˣҪ˵right-handed or left-handedֻһֽԶתԶתⲻҵʵҾʱתĻᶼСijۡ
֤ȥ:-) - Re: 自由意志posted on 09/13/2007
Ϊ־ôһ¥ҴҴȥ̸־ֵͻĪҲ־ʾ:)
- posted on 09/13/2007
rzp wrote:
Ϊ־ôһ¥ҴҴȥ̸־ֵͻĪҲ־ʾ:)
(c-:
ҿ־ı۳硣һǷ־ߡ
˵ĻȻҪڽ̹淶ԼҪѭȻȫۺõԶԶһáҲ˵һ֪źſܵ¶źţһЩźŲԤ⡣ټδ֪ź룬źŵĶԺͲԤԡĹؼǣЩźۺһеijһᣨnodeҲ˵IJ·ڡһѡ־Ϊ˿ɵءѡߣұߡ־ΪʱʵûѡأΪǰۻеźֻܵһҪôҪôҡҲ˵־ߴӸϷ˽Ĵڡ - Re: 自由意志posted on 09/13/2007
һԪ۵ģǸһԪֻ̣һԱǸԱǵϵۣ߰ɺ˺ﶼԱĺ
־۵ģǸԪ飬ÿ˶ǸԱ
۴ΪûԱϵ۸˳ʼһжʱĺ
- posted on 09/14/2007
ϰܽĺȷؼ·ڡҰת⡣ֱҾ־תܿ˵ղûתԤģϵۻɺʼҵ鷳ǣҲصȥתԴ֤ʵҵȷ־ҿԶ־ԭ
ʵҲѽֻҪϵۻɺȸǵԤԤҲȷʵֻ־ڡҲܸԼ־ת־ڡ
֪ϵסģҪ밢ɺʵ飿:-) - Re: 自由意志posted on 09/14/2007
鷳ɺˡҾЩ۱ǰ˴ӲͬĽǶȱƽڡ͡չıʵġߴ˼άȺЧʾͿ. 类ǰŪˡ
- Re: 自由意志posted on 09/14/2007
ѧڽı۴ŵȷѾǰˣNothing new any more under the sun. Կѧһֱڽչǽ־; - posted on 09/14/2007
Lately I am busy with family life (and other aspects of earthly life) that I am not with God (i.e. I am not God). I should have a choice to be God again whenever I want, but since now I am not God but only man, I am not sure why and how. Let's wait until next time (I don't think I can decide when--55555) I am one with God to do the experiment, OK?
New scientific studies are definitely interesting. They cast new light to the old question.
guanzhong wrote:
֪ϵסģҪ밢ɺʵ飿:-)
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