最新消息：美国校园枪击22死 21伤
美国弗吉尼亚理工大学发生校园仇杀，枪手打死了至少22人，21人在事件中受伤。
Sounds like Iraq
- Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/17/2007
My God!
那年，美国Denver郊区的中学枪杀发生时，我正在Denver出差。我所在的公司里就有死伤学生的父母，当时的情景如恶梦，那些家长疯了一般。市民们拥集到州政厅 前要求禁枪。我坚决支持禁枪。 - Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/17/2007
Just read the news about VT shooting. It's very sad. I have been to the campus a few times, and had a fond memory of it. The campus is located in a small peaceful rural town in southwest Virginia, which should be quite safe. The school has decent engineering programs, in addition to pretty good sport teams. But, it only takes a crazy guy with his finger on the trigger to make this happen. sad......
It's truly a heartbreaking day for the Hokies... - posted on 04/17/2007
wukong wrote:
But, it only takes a crazy guy with his finger on the trigger to make this happen. sad......
有一回我到体育店去买衣服，不意转到枪械部分，见到那么些子弹头
，一百颗装的，九块九毛九。人的生命在枪下真是一文不值。
记得当年严打枪决，家属还得负子弹费，三毛九分钱，当时米价是一
毛三。三斤大米。
前些天看到伊拉克每日的死伤数目都有点麻目了。
这是BBC最新报到。我以为这件事在美国的影响肯定很坏。
当然，当年持枪是反对暴政的。
====
最新消息：美国校园枪击30死 10伤
美国弗吉尼亚理工大学发生校园枪击，枪手打死了至少30人，10人在事件中受伤。
警方说，校园的一个最大的学生宿舍和工程楼在大约两小时间隔内相继发生枪击。
警方相信事件是一名枪手所为，枪手已经死亡。
但不清楚是被警方击毙还是自杀。
校园警察负责人弗林查姆说，他们先在周一格林尼治标准时间12：15，当地事件早晨7：15接到报警说，安布勒·约翰斯顿学生宿舍西楼发生多起枪击。
然后两小时后，科学与工程楼诺里斯厅也发出枪击报警。
从电视报道中可以听到密集的枪声，现场看来紧张混乱。
大量警车和救护车已经出现在现场，伤者被送往附近医院，但因当地风大且一度下雪，无法使用救援直升飞机。
尚未排除中国学生伤亡
这所公立大学位于弗吉尼亚西南的布莱克斯堡，有学生两万六千人。
据报该校有大批国际学生，包括不少来自中国和印度的留学生。
中国驻美国大使馆教育处一秘张静安对BBC中文部表示，他们正通过当地的中国学生学者联谊会积极联系当地中国学生，目前还没有发现中国学生受伤或死亡。
但张静安表示，目前校方尚未公布死伤者名单，仍不能排除有中国学生伤亡的可能。
驻美台北经济文化代表处新闻官员也告诉BBC中文部，目前没有台湾学生伤亡消息。
学生和当地人对事件感到恐惧和震动。
白宫发言人说布什总统深感惊讶并对死者家人表示关切。
美国国会为死难者默哀。
这次事件是美国历史上最严重的校园枪杀事件。
1966年，惠特曼在杀死妻子和母亲后从得克萨斯大学的一个塔楼上向校园开枪，打死14人，伤32人。 1999年，两名中学生在科罗拉多一所高中打死12名同学后自杀。
- Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/17/2007
new record: 32 dead.
all this maddening killing!
What's wrong with this country?! - Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/17/2007
just heard the news that the shooter was an Asian man. If true, I hope with all my heart he was not from China. I will feel very very bad if this turns out to be the case.
If there is anything wrong with this country related to this shooting, it is the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution - Right to Bear Arms. The original reason for this amendment has been long gone. - Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/17/2007
Hopefully, this is NOT another Lu Gang case.
guanzhong wrote:
just heard the news that the shooter was an Asian man. If is the case, I hope with all my heart he was not from China. I will feel very very bad it this turns out to be true. - Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/17/2007
ABC just reported the gunman was a 24-year-old student from Shanghai, who came to the US last year. Sh*t! - Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/17/2007
ai........shame!
guanzhong wrote:
ABC just reported the gunman was a 24-year-old student from Shanghai, who came to the US last year. Sh*t! - Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/17/2007
Only one TV station mentioned "Chinese national", "from Shanghai" only means the flight of his entry was from Shanghai.
July wrote:
ai........shame!
guanzhong wrote:
ABC just reported the gunman was a 24-year-old student from Shanghai, who came to the US last year. Sh*t! - Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/17/2007
Let's pray for not. it will be a very serious issue, you can feel the air.
rzp wrote:
Only one TV station mentioned "Chinese national", "from Shanghai" only means the flight of his entry was from Shanghai.
July wrote:
ai........shame!
guanzhong wrote:
ABC just reported the gunman was a 24-year-old student from Shanghai, who came to the US last year. Sh*t! - posted on 04/17/2007
I want to cry, cry for Chinese Students!
xw wrote:
Let's pray for not. it will be a very serious issue, you can feel the air.
rzp wrote:
Only one TV station mentioned "Chinese national", "from Shanghai" only means the flight of his entry was from Shanghai.
July wrote:
ai........shame!
guanzhong wrote:
ABC just reported the gunman was a 24-year-old student from Shanghai, who came to the US last year. Sh*t! - Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/17/2007
They say it is for "domestic" reason, i.e., a woman is involved, girl friend/wife. Most likely, another one of those miserable low EQ losers! - Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/17/2007
guanzhong wrote:
They say it is for "domestic" reason, i.e., a woman is involved, girl friend/wife. Most likely, another one of those miserable low EQ guys!
枪啊！枪啊！为此地何枪如此容易得到？ - posted on 04/17/2007
Hope against hope, l still hope the perp is not of chinese descent. Otherwise, the impact on the chinese community could be enormous.
But again, a crazy man could come from anywhere , and could be of any ethnic origin.
Let's mourn for all the innocent lives lost and wounded. Let's condemn the heinous crime commited againt humanity.
July wrote:
I want to cry, cry for Chinese Students!
xw wrote:
Let's pray for not. it will be a very serious issue, you can feel the air.
rzp wrote:
Only one TV station mentioned "Chinese national", "from Shanghai" only means the flight of his entry was from Shanghai.
July wrote:
ai........shame!
guanzhong wrote:
ABC just reported the gunman was a 24-year-old student from Shanghai, who came to the US last year. Sh*t! - Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/17/2007
中国人开始牛B了 只是苦了北美华人.跟小B什说这有因果的他也不懂
- Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/17/2007
- Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/17/2007
- Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/17/2007
- Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/17/2007
- Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/17/2007
- Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/17/2007
- Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/17/2007
- Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/17/2007
July wrote:
Hopefully, this is NOT another Lu Gang case.
证实是中国上海去的？那八成是小留学生了。中国留学生真不得了，比当地的牛仔还牛仔。以后签证得测试心里状态和精神病了-- “杀父之仇，夺妻之恨”，你该怎么办？选择题。
留学垃圾看来不只英国和加拿大比例高。 - Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/17/2007
令胡冲 wrote:
留学垃圾看来不只英国和加拿大比例高。
"留学垃圾"是指和爱因斯坦比么？：） - Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/17/2007
qinggang wrote:
"留学垃圾"是指和爱因斯坦比么？：）
Why ? 留学的人分两类。一种是留学生，一种是近年来的留学垃圾。 爱英斯坦同志属于哪一类，咱还没有思考过。
搞相对论的爱因思坦当过留学生吗？咱也记不清了。:) - Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/17/2007
令胡冲 wrote:
Why ? 留学的人分两类。一种是留学生，一种是近年来的留学垃圾。 爱英斯坦同志属于哪一类，咱还没有思考过。
搞相对论的爱因思坦当过留学生吗？咱也记不清了。:)
我的意思是说，都是留学，为什么要分出垃圾呢？
还有，犯罪的学生身份似乎还没最后确定，说不准是博士呢。
如果和爱因斯坦比，留学生和留学垃圾区别应该不大，所以我不赞同留学垃圾这种说法。留学的都垃圾了，我们这出不去的，都找不到词儿来形容了。：）
- posted on 04/17/2007
qinggang wrote:
我的意思是说，都是留学，为什么要分出垃圾呢？
还有，犯罪的学生身份似乎还没最后确定，说不准是博士呢。
如果和爱因斯坦比，留学生和留学垃圾区别应该不大，所以我不赞同留学垃圾这种说法。留学的都垃圾了，我们这出不去的，都找不到词儿来形容了。：）
唉。这种心情我理解，可惜人跟人，一代跟一代是有区别的。总的来讲，留洋去学习的，是留学生；留洋不是去学习的，就不应该叫留学生。既然为私事乱杀无辜，就不是留学生了，是流血兰博。至于兰博是否是垃圾，唉，可能会有争议。
我当然也希望这个家伙是从上海去的伊拉克人，萨达姆的老部下。可能性有多大呢？唉，滥杀无辜，天理不容啊。
爱因斯坦当过留学生吗？好象他没拿过学生签证吧? :)
- Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/17/2007
Latest from CNN:
The gunman suspect was Cho Seung-Hui, 23, of korean descent. - posted on 04/17/2007
Virginia Tech president: Shooter 'one of our students'
BLACKSBURG, Virginia (CNN) -- Police identified the gunman who killed 32 people on the Virginia Tech campus before turning the gun on himself as student Cho Seung-Hui, university police Chief Wendell Flinchum said Tuesday.
The 23-year-old South Korean and resident alien lived at the university's Harper Hall, Flinchum said. He was an English major, the chief said.
Flinchum said ballistics tests showed that one of the two guns recovered at Norris Hall, where 30 people and the gunman died, was used in the Norris shooting and an earlier shooting at a dormitory that left two dead.
The university and police are still in the process of releasing the names of the 32 people killed in Monday's shootings. (Watch how some are asking why warnings weren't issued sooner )
A doctor at a Blacksburg hospital described the injuries he saw Monday as "amazing" and the shooter as "brutal."
"There wasn't a shooting victim that didn't have less than three bullet wounds in them," said Dr. Joseph Cacioppo of Montgomery Regional Hospital.
Even among the less serious injuries, Cacioppo said, "we saw one patient that had a bullet wound to the wrist, one to the elbow and one to the thigh. We had another one with a bullet wound to the abdomen, one to the chest and one to the head."
A law enforcement source close to the investigation said a .22-caliber handgun and a 9 mm handgun were recovered at the scene. (Watch how quickly these guns can be fired, reloaded )
Details surface
The day's first shooting, at the West Ambler Johnston dormitory, which houses 895 students, occurred about 7:15 a.m.
At the time of the later shootings at Norris Hall, police were investigating a "person of interest" in the dormitory shootings, Flinchum said Monday.
During the Tuesday news conference, Flinchum said the person of interest was an acquaintance of a woman killed at the dorm.
Col. Steven Flaherty of the Virginia State Police said authorities were still investigating whether Cho had any accomplices in planning or executing Monday's rampage.
Steger told reporters Monday that police found the front doors of Norris Hall chained shut and that by the time they got to the second floor, the gunfire stopped.
Authorities say they believed the dorm shooting was an "isolated incident" and were still investigating it when the slaughter occurred at the other campus building, Norris Hall. (Officials thought shooter had fled)
The gunman killed 31 people, including himself, and wounded 15 in Norris Hall classrooms.
Steger: Police thought dorm shooting was isolated
Steger on Tuesday defended the university response to the dorm shooting, saying police believed it to be "a domestic fight, perhaps a murder-suicide" that was contained to one dorm room. (Watch the police chief explain where bodies were found )
Police cordoned off the dorm and all residents were told about the shooting as police looked for witnesses, Steger said.
"I don't think anyone could have predicted that another event was going to take place two hours later," Steger said, adding that it would've been difficult to warn every student because most were off campus at the time. (Watch a student's recording of police responding to loud bangs )
The gunman was dressed "almost like a Boy Scout" and wore a black ammunition vest, said a student who survived by pretending to lie dead on a classroom floor.
"He just stepped within five feet of the door and just started firing," said Erin Sheehan. "He seemed very thorough about it, getting almost everyone down, I pretended to be dead." (Watch student describe surviving by playing dead )
The shooter, who remained quiet throughout the rampage, came back 30 seconds after the first round of gunfire and Sheehan and her classmates tried to barricade the door with their bodies, she said.
After the shooter couldn't get in, he began firing through the door, Sheehan said. Of the 25 students in her German class, Sheehan was one of four able to walk out on her own when police arrived. (Watch students react to shooting )
Victims' identities being released
Courtney Dalton, an 18-year-old student who worked at West End Dining Hall, said a friend named Ryan Clark was one of the two dormitory victims.
Clark, a resident assistant at West Ambler Johnston Hall, had once worked at the cafeteria serving pizza. Sobbing, she described Clark "a happy person."
As of early Tuesday, the identities of four other victims had been released:
G.V. Loganathan, a professor of civil and environmental engineering
Liviu Librescu, a professor of engineering science and mechanics
Ross Alameddine, a student from Saugus, Massachusetts
Matthew La Porte, student, Dumont, New Jersey
The university has scheduled a convocation for 2 p.m. ET Tuesday. President Bush is scheduled to attend.
Classes have been canceled for the rest of the week, and Norris Hall will be closed for the remainder of the semester, Steger said.
There have been two bomb threats at the university this month, the latest of which came Friday. Flinchum said Tuesday they were unrelated to the shootings. (Watch gunfire on the campus )
Last August, the first day of class was cut short at Virginia Tech by a manhunt for an escaped prisoner accused of killing a Blacksburg hospital security guard and a sheriff's deputy.
Before Monday, the deadliest mass shooting in the United States occurred in 1991, when George Hennard drove a pickup truck into a Killeen, Texas, cafeteria and fatally shot 23 people, before shooting and killing himself.
- Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/17/2007
US university killer was S Korean
NNC news. --- oh my goodness. Slightly a relief, though I have to apologise for all the prejudice towards out overseas tudent trashes.
Who said he was from Shanghai?? I am going to shoot down this guy who sent out rumors. :)
Nobody wants to convince me South Korean was Chinese, does he? :) - Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/17/2007
Yes. killer is S korean.
Thanks god.
令胡冲 wrote:
US university killer was S Korean
NNC news. --- oh my goodness. Slightly a relief, though I have to apologise for all the prejudice towards out overseas tudent trashes.
Who said he was from Shanghai?? I am going to shoot down this guy who sent out rumors. :)
Nobody wants to convince me South Korean was Chinese, does he? :) - posted on 04/17/2007
1. 中国学生一般不住Dorm, 贵, 不方便cooking
2. 所有韩国大学生都接受一年以上军训, 大陆的好像已经停止了吧?
BLACKSBURG, Virginia (Reuters) - The gunman who killed 32 people and then himself at Virginia Tech university on Monday was identified by police on Tuesday as Cho Seung-Hui, a South Korean studying at the university.
Police said he was 23 and that one of two guns recovered was used in both of the two separate shooting incidents at the campus on Monday.
"The evidence has not led us to say with all certainty that the same shooter was involved in both shootings," Steven Flaherty, superintendent of the Virginia State Police, told a news conference.
"It's certainly reasonable for us to assume that Cho was the shooter in both places."
- posted on 04/17/2007
I wish you enough sun to keep your attitude bright no matter how gray the day may appear.
I wish you enough rain to appreciate the sun even more.
I wish you enough happiness to keep your spirit alive and everlasting.
I wish you enough pain so that even the smallest of joys in life may appear bigger.
I wish you enough gain to satisfy your wanting.
I wish you enough loss to appreciate all that you possess.
I wish you enough hellos to get you through the final good-bye.
They say it takes a minute to find a special person, an hour to appreciate them, a day to love them but then an entire life to forget them.
TAKE TIME TO LOVE.....
To all my friends and loved ones I WISH YOU ENOUGH........
- Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/17/2007
Hua wrote:我觉得其实就算是中国人，也都是正常的。
Yes. killer is S korean.
Thanks god.
枪支泛滥，谁能保证自己总那么温和有礼？年轻的时候，我没枪，我要有枪，说不准……。
当然了，不是中国人，最好。：）
韩国人长得和中国人一样，别人一看就说是中国人，可见中国人在海外还是没面子。 - posted on 04/17/2007
1. 中国学生一般不住Dorm, 贵, 不方便cooking
2. 所有韩国大学生都接受一年以上军训, 大陆的好像已经停止了吧?
BLACKSBURG, Virginia (Reuters) - The gunman who killed 32 people and then himself at Virginia Tech university on Monday was identified by police on Tuesday as Cho Seung-Hui, a South Korean studying at the university.
Police said he was 23 and that one of two guns recovered was used in both of the two separate shooting incidents at the campus on Monday.
"The evidence has not led us to say with all certainty that the same shooter was involved in both shootings," Steven Flaherty, superintendent of the Virginia State Police, told a news conference.
"It's certainly reasonable for us to assume that Cho was the shooter in both places."
- Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/17/2007
事后诸葛亮 wrote:
2. 所有韩国大学生都接受一年以上军训, 大陆的好像已经停止了吧?
准确地回诸葛亮，没停止，而且越来越正规。：） - posted on 04/17/2007
谢谢 rzp!
rzp wrote:
I wish you enough sun to keep your attitude bright no matter how gray the day may appear.
I wish you enough rain to appreciate the sun even more.
I wish you enough happiness to keep your spirit alive and everlasting.
I wish you enough pain so that even the smallest of joys in life may appear bigger.
I wish you enough gain to satisfy your wanting.
I wish you enough loss to appreciate all that you possess.
I wish you enough hellos to get you through the final good-bye.
They say it takes a minute to find a special person, an hour to appreciate them, a day to love them but then an entire life to forget them.
TAKE TIME TO LOVE.....
To all my friends and loved ones I WISH YOU ENOUGH........
- Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/17/2007
qinggang wrote:
我觉得其实就算是中国人，也都是正常的。
sigh, possibly not at all. If this is "正常", nothing would be abnormal.
You certainly can kill yourself and you ex-girl firend depending on your own problem, but you probably don't have justification to kill another 31 people. That's very unusual. - Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/17/2007
qinggang was trying to speak like a statistician, however the aftermath impact on everyday life of oversea Chinese will be dramatized should the gunman turn out to be one of us. Just watch out for the Korean people's reaction, and certainly American's attitude toward them after Apr 16.
qinggang wrote:
我觉得其实就算是中国人，也都是正常的。
- posted on 04/17/2007
The killer was abnomal.
However, If the killer’s a Chinese, it could become a more complicated issue.
An individual shooting rampage could cause a political storm in USA.
More people could die. (I may write more for discussion when I get a chance).
However, let’s mourn and pray for the victims.
It’s a heart broken tragedy, and people are crying.
As parents, we must think what’s wrong with the world and kids.
Hope the world have a peace and people have a peaceful life.
Best wishes to your baby girl.
......
Thanks rzp
…..
TAKE TIME TO LOVE.....
To all my friends and loved ones I WISH YOU ENOUGH........
qinggang wrote:......
我觉得其实就算是中国人，也都是正常的。 - posted on 04/17/2007
令胡冲 wrote:
qinggang wrote:sigh, possibly not at all. If this is "正常", nothing would be abnormal.
我觉得其实就算是中国人，也都是正常的。
You certainly can kill yourself and you ex-girl firend depending on your own problem, but you probably don't have justification to kill another 31 people. That's very unusual.
咱得往上看历史啊。
几千年了，人们都祈求和平，但战争从来没停过。这就说明，有战争是正常的。
希特勒，蒋毛之战，广岛长崎，死得更多，没谁说不正常。
正常就是不正常，不正常就是正常，历史就这么糊涂。
这世界并非所有人都谦和有礼，所以我说有人杀人很正常。
当然，我也同样向死难者致哀。很无辜，但是无奈，没办法避免的。总有人要杀人，总有人被杀，规律。 - posted on 04/17/2007
青冈，你还是想办法到美国来留学吧。脑子也太糊涂了。这是战争吗？我都不知道你在说什麽。这是一个疯子。
qinggang wrote:
令胡冲 wrote:咱得往上看历史啊。
qinggang wrote:sigh, possibly not at all. If this is "正常", nothing would be abnormal.
我觉得其实就算是中国人，也都是正常的。
You certainly can kill yourself and you ex-girl firend depending on your own problem, but you probably don't have justification to kill another 31 people. That's very unusual.
几千年了，人们都祈求和平，但战争从来没停过。这就说明，有战争是正常的。
希特勒，蒋毛之战，广岛长崎，死得更多，没谁说不正常。
正常就是不正常，不正常就是正常，历史就这么糊涂。
这世界并非所有人都谦和有礼，所以我说有人杀人很正常。
当然，我也同样向死难者致哀。很无辜，但是无奈，没办法避免的。总有人要杀人，总有人被杀，规律。 - Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/17/2007
Hua wrote:我们也只能希望了。
Hope the world have a peace and people have a peaceful life.
天天看报纸，布什弄些铁船在波斯湾上，世界能和平么？
不是我幸灾乐祸，美国国内是该有点儿大事儿，让布什费费心了。
美国人死一个，天都能掉下来。伊拉克死那么多人，美国还往那里运兵。
这世界，没法说道理。
谁死了，做父母的都心痛，向孩子们致哀。 - posted on 04/17/2007
He came to US at the age of 8, so he didn't receive the para-military training in Korea. It may reveal more evidence that he is the victim of the loose US gun control in the context of cultural clash.
---------------------------
ZT from Yahoo
Cho, a 23-year-old South Korean and resident alien, lived at the university's Harper Hall, Flinchum said. He was an English major, the chief said.
Cho was a loner and authorities are having a hard time finding information about him, said Harry Hincker, associate vice president for university relations.
A department of Homeland Security official said Cho came to the United States in 1992, through Detroit, Michigan. He had lawful permanent residence, via his parents, and renewed his green card in October 2003, the official said.
His residence was listed as Centreville, Virginia, a suburb of Washington, D.C.
- Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/18/2007
July wrote:七月提醒我了。弄了半天，说两茬了，令狐说人，我说事。
青冈，你还是想办法到美国来留学吧。脑子也太糊涂了。这是战争吗？我都不知道你在说什麽。这是一个疯子。
单说杀手，说他是疯子，我没意见的。杀自己行，杀别人不对。
就事来说，美国枪支泛滥，类似的以后还得有。
喝多了，兜里有枪，看谁不顺眼，都可能崩他。要是没枪的话，一个小个子，怕是不敢随意向别人挑战。
老美到现在还不禁枪，也够了有趣的。
- Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/18/2007
青冈，你不要在胡说八道了，我替你脸红。
qinggang wrote:
Hua wrote:我们也只能希望了。
Hope the world have a peace and people have a peaceful life.
天天看报纸，布什弄些铁船在波斯湾上，世界能和平么？
不是我幸灾乐祸，美国国内是该有点儿大事儿，让布什费费心了。
美国人死一个，天都能掉下来。伊拉克死那么多人，美国还往那里运兵。
这世界，没法说道理。
谁死了，做父母的都心痛，向孩子们致哀。 - Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/18/2007
July wrote:我自己说过的话，都负责的，不能武断地认为“胡说八道”。难道只有和别人看法一样才是对的？咖啡店也党同伐异？
青冈，你不要在胡说八道了，
我替你脸红。大家讨论问题，应该没有那么严重。
当然我把话题扩展了，有些跑题，但指出来就好了么。 - posted on 04/18/2007
Shame on u!
Please read following:
Let's mourn for all the innocent lives lost and wounded. Let's condemn the heinous crime commited againt humanity.
qinggang wrote:
July wrote:我自己说过的话，都负责的，不能武断地认为“胡说八道”。难道只有和别人看法一样才是对的？咖啡店也党同伐异？
青冈，你不要在胡说八道了，
我替你脸红。大家讨论问题，应该没有那么严重。
当然我把话题扩展了，有些跑题，但指出来就好了么。 - posted on 04/18/2007
青冈，这是一幕悲剧，每个生命都是重要的，在这个时候，美国的主流媒体对杀人者都是使用shooter这个中性的词汇，而不是讨伐韩国人或者亚洲人。
不论对人或者对事，这都不是说风凉话的时候，这不是观点的不同，是有关人文精神和道德底线的问题。如果你在美国你会知道，有多少人为伊拉克平民死亡而真诚难过和上街抗议。
想起911后国人的庆祝，以及几个日本登山运动员在中国登山遇难国人庆祝，感到很悲哀。中国传统文化不也有“人溺己溺”的精神吗？
青冈，支持你孩子大些留学，因为你虽然谦虚好学，也有些功底，但对人文精神还没有完全吃透。 - Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/18/2007
July wrote:没想到会有这么严重。
Shame on u!
网络这个东西有时候让人很兴奋，有时候也让人很不兴奋。：）
刚才回去重读，看到hua问候我的小孩，很感谢。 - Re: 鏀寔涓冩湀posted on 04/18/2007
支持JULY 呵呵
Let's mourn for all the innocent lives lost and wounded. Let's condemn the heinous crime commited againt humanity.
- posted on 04/18/2007
feiming wrote:
青冈，这是一幕悲剧，每个生命都是重要的，在这个时候，美国的主流媒体对杀人者都是使用shooter这个中性的词汇，而不是讨伐韩国人或者亚洲人。
不论对人或者对事，这都不是说风凉话的时候，这不是观点的不同，是有关人文精神和道德底线的问题。如果你在美国你会知道，有多少人为伊拉克平民死亡而真诚难过和上街抗议。
想起911后国人的庆祝，以及几个日本登山运动员在中国登山遇难国人庆祝，感到很悲哀。中国传统文化不也有“人溺己溺”的精神吗？
青冈，支持你孩子大些留学，因为你虽然谦虚好学，也有些功底，但对人文精神还没有完全吃透。
好久不见feiming了。问个好。
我得更正一下，可能是表达方式的问题，我没说风凉话。：）
人文精神的培养在哪里都可以，韩国人在美国也一样乱来的。说我没吃透，这个我接受，所以我很喜欢林达。
留学的事儿，我一直都在考虑，体验一下多元文化，总没坏处的。来了咖啡店一年半，记住的人中有废名。祝一切都好。：） - Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/18/2007
看来青岗比我还老得多。人老了，就不适合出言标新立异或玩事不恭了，主要是自己精力和思路都跟不上了，说来说去不知道自己在说什么。July对他的鞭鞑是完全入情入理的。:) 不过好在老人有个好处就是态度都特别好，算认罪了。
美国真是一个民风剽悍的国家。类似事件层出不穷，却始终不改律法。这样的国家会很善战的。
- posted on 04/18/2007
ZT
韩国外交通商部长官宋旻淳在得知美国弗吉尼亚理工大学枪击案主犯可能是韩国人后，１７日晚紧急召开特别对策会议，商讨有关对策。
新华网称，据韩国联合通讯社当天报道，涉嫌美国弗吉尼亚理工大学枪击案的主犯名为赵承辉（音译），今年２３岁，是弗吉尼亚理工大学英语系的四年级学生。赵承辉从上小学时就随父母移民美国，是拥有美国永久居留权的韩国人。
韩国外交通商部北美局１７日晚表示，韩国政府对此次枪击事件表示震惊，并再次对死伤者家属表示慰问。韩国政府和韩国驻美国使领馆正就有关在美韩国侨民安全等问题紧密协商，并采取相关措施。
韩国总统府发言人尹胜容１７日下午曾表示，韩国总统卢武铉在得知弗吉尼亚理工大学枪击事件后表示“难以置信”，希望受伤者能早日痊愈，并对死者表示哀悼，对死者家属表示慰问。
韩国媒体对韩国人涉嫌美国校园枪击案给予高度关注，对此事可能给在美韩国人形象和韩美关系造成的影响表示忧虑。
- Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/18/2007
韩国政府反应快，不简单。韩国政府远比这里诸位还担忧自己形象呢，这样的政府才配老百姓的税钱。
小学就移民美国了？那肯定算是多半个美国人了。应该是没有文化的影响。怨不得韩国人。
是谁说他从上海学生签证过去的，这太不负责了。开国际玩笑。
- posted on 04/18/2007
Va. Tech Shooter was described as "Loner"
By Debbi Wilgoren and Howard Schneider
Washington Post Staff Writers
Tuesday, April 17, 2007; 2:00 PM
A 23-year-old English major from Centreville was the gunman who killed 32 people and then himself on the Virginia Tech campus yesterday -- the deadliest shooting rampage in modern U.S. history, university and law enforcement officials said.
Cho Seung Hui was a South Korean native who immigrated to this country as a child, officials said. His lifeless body was found in Norris Hall, a classroom building, among those of several other slain students, Virginia state police superintendent Col. Steve Flaherty said. Cho, a senior, had apparently taken his own life. Cho graduated in 2003 from Westfield High School in Fairfax County.
Victims were also found in three other classrooms and a stairwell in Norris Hall, said Flaherty, who called the building "a horrific crime scene."
An affidavit for a search warrant filed this morning in Montgomery County, Va., circuit court said police found a "bomb threat note . . . directed at engineering school department buildings" near the bodies of the shooter and some victims. Investigators believe "the note is connected with the shooting incident," the agent wrote, without elaborating. The affidavit said that investigators were searching Cho's room in Harper Hall.
Law enforcement sources said that Cho died with the words "Ismail Ax" in red ink on one of his arms. It is not clear what that is a reference to. Sources also said authorities have found what has been described as a rambling note in Cho's dorm room. The Chicago Tribune reported that the note railed against "rich kids," "debauchery" and "deceitful charms."
Cho was an English major whose creative writing was so disturbing that he was referred to the school's counseling service, the Associated Press reported.
Inside Harper Hall this morning, students said they believed Cho lived in a suite on the second floor. The suite had a common room linking three bedrooms, each of which was shared by two students.
A reporter who briefly glimpsed the common room found it strewn with newspapers and soda cans, with one resident walking around. The common room appeared plain with beige walls. One of the doors facing the common room, which students believed led to Cho's room, was locked. Walkie-talkie conversation could be heard from behind the door. A hall monitor kicked out the reporter, saying that no media were allowed.
Investigators worked through the night gathering and removing evidence from Norris Hall, including a 9mm handgun and a .22 caliber handgun, officials said. A total of 31 people, including Cho, were fatally shot in the building.
Virginia Tech police chief Wendell Flinchum said ballistics tests showed that one of the weapons was also used in the shooting deaths of two people more than two hours earlier at West Ambler Johnston Hall, a dormitory building.
"It is reasonable for us to assume that Cho was the shooter in both, but we don't have the evidence to take us there," Flaherty said.
Law enforcement officials said they are still talking to an acquaintance of the female student killed in the residence hall. That person was detained off-campus after the first shooting and has been labeled a person of interest.
Cho, described by fellow students a loner, cleared a federal criminal background check at the time his green card was renewed in 2003, as did his family, a U.S. immigration official said.
"His check came back clean," the official said. "The whole family didn't have a problem."
The family of four entered the U.S. with a sponsor, typically an American relative of one of the parents, an immigration official said.
U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement was reviewing Cho's background investigation and green card renewal application form and expected to release redacted versions later Tuesday.
At Virginia Tech, he lived in Harper Hall, which according to a campus map is one building away from West Ambler Johnston. "The only thing we know about him is that he was a loner," Larry Hincker, associate vice president of university relations said.
Fellow residents of Harper Hall were rattled this morning. Timothy Johnson, a freshman from Annandale, Va., said he recognized Cho and occasionally greeted him in the hallway. "We were all just shocked," Johnson said.
Tom Duscheid, a management student from Pittsburgh, Pa., said he did not know the shooter. "I feel very fortunate," he said. "What if he went into here [with a gun]?"
- Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/18/2007
这呆鸟纯粹是美国文化的消极产物。 - Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/18/2007
凶手的手臂上用红笔写了两个字：Ismail Ax （伊斯梅尔之斧）。Ismail 伊斯梅尔是犹太人的祖先Abraham亚伯拉罕的儿子，为亚伯拉罕的妻子萨拉的使女哈格尔所生。当亚伯拉罕的嫡子Isaac出生后，伊斯梅尔和母亲哈格尔被赶出家门，流落到沙漠里。伊斯梅尔被阿拉伯人奉为穆罕默德和阿拉伯人的始祖。
但愿凶手在这里只是使用了这个典故的象征意义，而不是代表阿拉伯复仇。 - Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮32姝� 21浼�posted on 04/18/2007
Interestingly, Virginia senator Webb, a Democrat, is opposed to gun control. Recently a top aide of his was charged with trying to carry loaded pistol into Senate building.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Jim_Webb - posted on 04/18/2007
这杀人的人都是不正常的. 青岗先生用词不对, 历史上存在很多杀人的事件, 并不能得出这样的观点: "这是正常的", 而只能说类似的事件发生过很多次. 凡是存在的就是合理的, 这是一个相对的理论, 而不是绝对的理论. 唯物主义者的世界观也只能是相对的. "对世界(生命)的尊重"才是一个最基本的判断一个人是否正常的标准.
我刚才看了一些跟帖, 有人说象我这样坚决反战的人是"没落的文人". 意思大该是说这样的文人之谈没有用, 人们还是在战争中相互攻击. 看到这样的说法, 我也唯有苦笑而已.
文明的进展是需要很多严肃地反省的. 一句话: 这些人是疯子; 一句话: 人就是这样的, 他们争名夺利, 相互杀戮. 这两句话只反映了事实, 并不能说明人是一个有智慧有灵性的生物, 我们应该分析, 应该发展出一种被普遍接受的向善的思想, 应该抵制和中止恶的疯狂的事件和思想.
- posted on 04/18/2007
Poor kid... his eyes look just innocent to me.
Who said he is free of cross-cultural or sub-cultural influence simply because he's raised up in US? Remember he came over at 8, and if his parents are first generation just like us, he is for sure immersed in their own culture more than anything else in street. The tragedy is that from whom he has acquired such a professional-grade shooting skills?
This is almost a parallel question posed by millions of Americans before: "where the hell did they get the pilot training from?"
令胡冲 wrote:
韩国政府反应快，不简单。韩国政府远比这里诸位还担忧自己形象呢，这样的政府才配老百姓的税钱。
小学就移民美国了？那肯定算是多半个美国人了。应该是没有文化的影响。怨不得韩国人。
是谁说他从上海学生签证过去的，这太不负责了。开国际玩笑。
- Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/18/2007
那个以色列的教授真了不起. 社会需要这样的长者给人以楷模. 王小波常谈中年人对社会的责任, 我以为是很有道理的. - Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/18/2007
- posted on 04/18/2007
中国外交部：美国个别媒体不实报道违反职业道德
中新社北京四月十八日电
美国弗吉尼亚理工大学枪击案发生后，美国有媒体报道称“凶手是中国留学生”，造成了不良的国际影响。中国外交部发言人刘建超今天对此表示，美国个别媒体的不实报道违反了新闻职业道德。
“美国弗吉尼亚理工大学发生的枪击惨案是一个十分严重的事件。美个别媒体在事实未经查明之前发表不负责任的报道，违反了新闻职业道德，是十分错误的做法。我们已要求有关方面消除其负面影响。”刘建超今天在回答记者提问时说。
刘建超表示，中国政府和人民十分关切这一事件，谨向遇难者表示沉痛哀悼，向受害者家属和负伤者表示深切同情和诚挚慰问，祝愿负伤者早日痊愈。
美国弗吉尼亚理工大学十六日发生美国历史上死伤最惨重的校园枪击事件，三十三人在惨案中丧身，数十人受伤。美国警方昨天向外界公布，惨案的元凶是二十三岁的韩国学生赵承辉。
- posted on 04/18/2007
Rumors everywhere, the upper one is the worst.
Here are some new BBC contents:
....
警方透露，23岁的赵承熙在8岁时随父母移民美国。
媒体报道称最早的两位受害者中的女性是赵承熙的前任女友。
不过美国有线新闻台（CNN）专访赵承熙两位室友时，他们则透露从未见赵与女孩子交往，并说他很少与人交谈，为人"孤僻"，有时行为"古怪"。
赵承熙在写作课上创作的两个剧本中都有大量的暴力描写和涉及谋杀的内容，在他的写作老师干预下，他在学校接受了心理治疗。
警方透露，他们在工程系教学楼发现一把9毫米口径手枪和一把.22口径手枪，并证实其中一把手枪曾被用于学生宿舍的枪击事件。
不过他们表示，仍在调查赵承熙是否有作案同伙。
- posted on 04/19/2007
BLACKSBURG, Va. - Between his first and second bursts of gunfire, the Virginia Tech gunman mailed a package to NBC headquarters in New York containing photos of him brandishing guns and video of him delivering an angry, profanity-laced tirade about rich kids and hedonism.
ADVERTISEMENT
"You had a hundred billion chances and ways to have avoided today," 23-year-old Cho Seung-Hui says in a harsh monotone, in an excerpt shown on "NBC Nightly News." "But you decided to spill my blood. You forced me into a corner and gave me only one option. The decision was yours. Now you have blood on your hands that will never wash off."
NBC said the package contained an 1,800-word diatribe and 29 photos, 11 of them showing him aiming handguns at the camera. Much of the rant is incoherent and filled with obscenities. He rails against Christianity and the rich.
"Your Mercedes wasn't enough, you brats," he says, apparently reading from a manifesto. "Your golden necklaces weren't enough you snobs. Your trust funds wasn't enough. Your vodka and cognac wasn't enough. All your debaucheries weren't enough. Those weren't enough to fulfill your hedonistic needs. You had everything.
The package, which arrived at NBC two days after Cho killed 32 people and committed suicide in the deadliest one-man shooting rampage in modern U.S. history, bore a Postal Service stamp showing that it had been mailed at a Virginia post office at 9:01 a.m. Monday, about an hour and 45 minutes after Cho first opened fire.
That would explain one of the biggest mysteries about the massacre: Where the gunman was and what he did during that two-hour window between the first burst of gunfire at a high-rise dorm, and the second attack, at a classroom building.
Some of the pictures show him smiling. Some depict him brandishing two weapons at a time, one in each hand. He wears a khaki-colored military-style vest, fingerless gloves, a black T-shirt, a backpack and a backwards, black baseball cap. Another photo shows him swinging a hammer two-fisted. Another shows an angry-looking Cho holds a gun to his temple.
The package was sent by overnight delivery but did not arrive at NBC until Wednesday morning. It had apparently been delayed because it had the wrong ZIP code, NBC said.
An alert postal employee brought the package to NBC's attention after noticing the Blacksburg return address and a name similar to the words reportedly found scrawled in red ink on Cho's arm after the bloodbath, "Ismail Ax," NBC said.
"I didn't have to do it. I could have left. I could have fled," he says. "But now I am no longer running. If not for me, for my children and my brothers and sisters that you (expletive). I did it for them."
He also makes references to the Columbine High massacre and the teenage killers, according to NBC. - posted on 04/19/2007
ZT
枪击案暴露韩裔家庭移民代价 赵承熙姐姐供职国防部
韩国大批父母让孩子在幼年时就移民美国，以避开国内激烈的升学竞争、拿美国大学文凭
18日，关于美国弗吉尼亚理工大学枪击案嫌疑人——韩裔移民赵承熙（前译“赵承辉”）的性格、言行等细节，被同他有过接触的人们一一回忆起来。
几乎没有朋友，平时将自己掩藏在帽子和太阳镜下，沉默寡言，说话声音几近耳语，拒绝与老师、同学和邻居交流，有时威胁同学，有时沮丧，写以死亡为主题的诗歌和声讨富人的“宣言”……种种描述，勾勒出一个心理状况迥异常人的形象。
枪击案的发生也许可以直接归因于赵承熙本人的性格或心理状况，但透过血案，韩国人也在反思他们移民美国的模式，以及这种模式可能造成的社会问题。
韩裔移民普遍难过
17日，当弗吉尼亚州一家公司的韩国裔秘书杨云最初听说杀死32名师生的嫌疑人是一名亚裔时，她强烈地祈祷：但愿这不是一个韩裔。
几小时后，当得知枪手赵承熙不仅与她来自同一个国家，而且是在同一个韩裔社区成长起来时，30岁的杨云痛苦不已。她说：“我很难过，每个韩国人都很难过。”
在杨云所住的弗吉尼亚州费尔法克斯县森特利维尔（Centreville）市，很多人怀有同样的情绪。在马里兰州、弗吉尼亚州、华盛顿特区交界地区，有5.2万多名韩国裔移民。而森特利维尔是其中受教育程度最高、秩序最好的移民聚居地。赵承熙家就住在该市。赵家的房子有3个卧室，费尔法克斯县政府对其估价为404510美元。
典型的韩裔家庭
赵承熙8岁时随父母移民到美国，目前全家都已拿到绿卡。赵承熙的父母开一家干洗店，他的姐姐赵顺毕业于普林斯顿大学，2004年在美国国防部实习后，目前是国防部的合同职员。
此前在美国，人们对韩裔移民的整体印象往往是勤劳、受教育程度高、注重家庭和睦。赵家的邻居阿布杜尔·夏什也说，赵承熙的父母安静、谦让而勤劳，看上去深爱自己的儿子。赵承熙在弗吉尼亚理工大学上学的这几年中，父母经常驱车接送他往返于学校和家之间，这一路程单程就需开车4个多小时。
“韩国式移民”代价巨大
弗吉尼亚州一位名叫金密河的社区活动积极分子说，各个韩裔社区组织目前正安排韩裔青年在本周接受心理咨询，“即便是那些出生在美国的韩裔青年，也会从此面临身份上的认同危机。”
17日，华盛顿特区政府的一名韩裔职员在写给其宗教组织负责人的一封电子邮件中说：“我办公室里的人用异样的眼光看我。我甚至没法走近同事跟他们说话。我很羞耻。”
而一些韩裔社区领袖认为，赵承熙事件将使一些韩裔移民反省他们让孩子在幼年时就移民美国的做法。这种“韩国式移民”是为了避开韩国国内激烈的中学、大学入学竞争，拿一张在韩国颇为吃香的美国大学文凭。
弗吉尼亚州北部一家韩语电台的老板申昆树说：“这让我们质疑：移民及融入美国的过程到底对年轻的亚裔产生了怎样难言的压力。”
申昆树等人表示，他和其他多数韩裔青年的父母为了把他们送到美国读书，作出了重大的牺牲——有的放弃在韩国国内的较高职位，在美国从事层次较低的工作以便陪伴孩子；有的留在韩国赚钱，供孩子在美读书和生活，彼此都承受亲人分离之痛。
据韩国政府统计，2000年，约有4400名学龄孩童离开韩国到国外求学，到了2002年，有近1万名孩子出国读书。这些孩子多数移民美国。在马里兰州霍华德县，每年都有近400名韩国学生被各中小学录取。
而霍华德县的一位韩裔心理顾问说，男孩适应美国生活尤感困难。过去两年中，他曾为约20个韩裔男孩提供咨询，这些男孩功课跟不上，脾气暴躁，有的还滥用药物。
卢武铉：
尽力避免在美韩裔受影响
而在韩国国内，民众希望这场惨案不要催生对在美200多万韩裔的种族偏见。
韩国外交通商部的一位高级官员说，韩国政府对枪击案的“震惊难以言表”。就此次枪击案，韩国总统卢武铉继17日之后，18日再次致电美国布什总统，对遇难者表示哀悼，对遇难者家属表示慰问。卢武铉在慰问电中还说，韩国政府将尽力避免枪击案对在美工作和学习的韩裔产生影响。
也有一些韩国人认为，23岁的赵承熙1992年起就移居美国，因此不应被视为韩国人（尽管他仍持韩国护照），而且，“这是一桩个人事件。”韩国一家电视台的评论员说。
弗吉尼亚理工大学共有1600多名亚裔学生，其中包括763名韩裔本科生和研究生。
- Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/19/2007
We also need to keep the shooter's family in our prayerful thoughts. It's not hard to imagine how his parents are feeling now. Having gone through all the hardships of raising a child and supported his college education up to the senior year--all through a small laundry business, they only reaped a lifeless body, disfigured by himself and loathed by many, and a lifetime nightmare created through no fault of their own.
- posted on 04/19/2007
今天专门造访这个地方，就是要看一下这个叫“青岗”的东西的叫嚣。这个地方，自从这个叫“青岗”的东西来了之后，就变味了。911时，他饮酒庆贺，这是他在这里的自述。今天终于有现了一次本性。不知昨晚又喝了多少？
July wrote:
青冈，你不要在胡说八道了，我替你脸红。
qinggang wrote:
Hua wrote:我们也只能希望了。
Hope the world have a peace and people have a peaceful life.
天天看报纸，布什弄些铁船在波斯湾上，世界能和平么？
不是我幸灾乐祸，美国国内是该有点儿大事儿，让布什费费心了。
美国人死一个，天都能掉下来。伊拉克死那么多人，美国还往那里运兵。
这世界，没法说道理。
谁死了，做父母的都心痛，向孩子们致哀。 - posted on 04/19/2007
ZT
韩国决定停止在美国有线新闻网播放韩国旅游广告
韩国观光公社（旅游局）18日表示，将暂时停播在美国有线新闻网（CNN）播放的旅游韩国宣传广告。
韩国观光公社最近推出了品牌为“KOREA，Sparkling”的旅游韩国宣传广告，并决定从4月16日开始在CNN播出。然而，美国弗吉尼亚理工大学校园枪击惨案的凶手被证实为韩裔后，韩国观光公社于惨案发生的第二天17日决定暂时停播该广告。
韩国观光公社做出判断，CNN电台将一整天报道这一严重事件的同时，如果插播有韩国传统音乐及影像的广告实在不太妥当。
韩国观光公社原本打算从4月16日至6月30日通过CNN播出时间为30秒的“KOREA，Sparkling”广告共68次。
- posted on 04/19/2007
您如果是咖啡店里的老读者，就该知道这样的话有多不妥当。仇恨会激发仇恨。咖啡店里没有敌我矛盾，您的同情跟爱心应该也要适用于青冈这样的朋友，就是对这个韩裔杀手以及他的仇恨，我们也该用爱去化解。爱比恨有更大的能量。
怨怨相报永无终止。希望大家用更大的爱心，更多的compassion去慈悲这个世界。
一老读者 wrote:
今天专门造访这个地方，就是要看一下这个叫“青岗”的东西的叫嚣。这个地方，自从这个叫“青岗”的东西来了之后，就变味了。911时，他饮酒庆贺，这是他在这里的自述。今天终于有现了一次本性。不知昨晚又喝了多少？
July wrote:
青冈，你不要在胡说八道了，我替你脸红。
qinggang wrote:
Hua wrote:我们也只能希望了。
Hope the world have a peace and people have a peaceful life.
天天看报纸，布什弄些铁船在波斯湾上，世界能和平么？
不是我幸灾乐祸，美国国内是该有点儿大事儿，让布什费费心了。
美国人死一个，天都能掉下来。伊拉克死那么多人，美国还往那里运兵。
这世界，没法说道理。
谁死了，做父母的都心痛，向孩子们致哀。 - Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/19/2007
谈不上什么“恨”。只觉得本来好好的一家咖啡店，总有只苍蝇成天在里面飞来飞去，让有些客人反胃口，端了咖啡就走人，或者尽量不去。
玛雅 wrote:
您如果是咖啡店里的老读者，就该知道这样的话有多不妥当。仇恨会激发仇恨。咖啡店里没有敌我矛盾，您的同情跟爱心应该也要适用于青冈这样的朋友，就是对这个韩裔杀手以及他的仇恨，我们也该用爱去化解。爱比恨有更大的能量。
怨怨相报永无终止。希望大家用更大的爱心，更多的compassion去慈悲这个世界。
- Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/19/2007
真是一场悲剧！
愿那些冤死的灵魂安息！
想起前一段看的片《Elephant》，就是讲述校园枪击暴力的，只是没想到，转眼戏剧变成了真实....... - posted on 04/19/2007
一老读者 wrote:树欲静，风还不停地吹。我有点儿担心老读者的身体，别气坏了。
今天专门造访这个地方，就是要看一下这个叫“青岗”的东西的叫嚣。这个地方，自从这个叫“青岗”的东西来了之后，就变味了。911时，他饮酒庆贺，这是他在这里的自述。今天终于有现了一次本性。不知昨晚又喝了多少？
1.911发生时，我正在老师的电脑上看黄色网页。说我“911时，他饮酒庆贺”，我不知道这史料从何而来。诽谤和谣言都是不好的。
2. 我妻子跟了我十几年，都还没完全参透我。我就写了几句回帖，就被看出来“本性”，你也真够厉害的。不用真实姓名回帖，对他人进行攻击，我看这本身就是咖啡店里的911。
来店里快两年了，收获非常多，思想上精神上都有进步，我自己都能感觉到的。玛雅的气质、xw的渊博、丁林的人文意识等等都让我对咖啡店流连忘返。平日里与人交流，我都不多说话的，中国有“言多必失”的传统，所以到了网上就有种喜欢表达的冲动。我得承认，一个人站多高，视野就有多大，这样就一定会导致我许多观点的局限性，不过这没办法。我总是试图通过多读书的方式来弥补，但不管怎么补，都还是有局限的。也许就是这些局限，成了冲突的焦点。
咖啡店里已经有几个人说类似“一老读者”的话了。如果只有一个人说，我可以忽视；等几个人都说，肯定就是自己哪里确实出问题了。所以，关门回家修炼反省不失为好办法。：）
很感谢玛雅的包容，玛雅上面的几句话都足以支撑这间店再开50年。禅宗主不立文字，还弄了《坛经》；我说不回帖了，又罗嗦这一大堆，这一个人的敌人，其实就是自己。
- Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/19/2007
青冈也不用太自责。咖啡里一两句不中听，况且有些还带着诚意，不
用往心里去。咖啡里，倒是玛雅最能承受的了。
那天太累，想写几个贴子都不成篇，最后觉得废名写得不错。就不多
虑了。我一直给玛雅鼓励，有些东西小小的，不用太自责。
世界上大邪大恶横行，咖啡够弱了，得相互体恤。
- Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/19/2007
最可怜的就是这类自称老读者的傻不波一.自以为是到极点.以为自己出了国,接受了民主理念,注重了人权,珍惜了生命等等.但内心极度的卑琐和狭隘,还要摆出一副高高在上的姿态.出口就是伤人.连名字都不敢说出来. 除了恶语攻击,表露自己的暴戾,其他从来也说不出个所以然来.
支持青冈,起码大家是在谈思想,而且理性,和缓. - posted on 04/19/2007
弗州校园枪手寄出"令人不安"包裹
美国媒体播放了赵承熙的录像
警方说，弗吉尼亚州理工大学案枪手赵承熙（音译）曾经向媒体寄出一个"令人不安"的包裹。
美国全国广播公司（NBC）表示，这个包裹包含了一些"令人不安"的照片、录像和写作，他显然是在两起枪击案的空档时间寄出这一邮件的。
这个邮件里的物品已交给联邦调查局进行检验。
在周一发生的校园枪击案造成33人死亡，包括枪手赵承熙。
弗吉尼亚州警察首长费海提说，在这起案件的调查中，这个包裹是非常新的和关键性的，当局正试图分析和评估其重要性。
枪手的"多媒体宣言"
美国全国广播公司说，从包裹上的时间戳涌来看，它显然是在宿舍和教学大楼的两次枪击杀人案件之间的两个小时内寄出的。
一名编辑说，他们在周三收到这个包裹，并把它形容为枪手的"多媒体宣言"。
警方说，枪手在这起枪击事件中使用相同的手枪，但未能绝对证实赵承熙都在现场。
当局还没有正式宣布23岁的赵承熙和这起校园枪击案有关联。
- posted on 04/20/2007
晚上的新闻惯满了耳朵,早上一出门, KILLER的照片又在脚下.
我倒担心COPYCAT. 看看校园枪击事件不断.看看每次事件之后都有些不正常的人跳出来.
Fengzi wrote:
We also need to keep the shooter's family in our prayerful thoughts. It's not hard to imagine how his parents are feeling now. Having gone through all the hardships of raising a child and supported his college education up to the senior year--all through a small laundry business, they only reaped a lifeless body, disfigured by himself and loathed by many, and a lifetime nightmare created through no fault of their own.
- posted on 04/20/2007
Indeed, not surprised if the poor parents are suicidal now..
Fengzi wrote:
We also need to keep the shooter's family in our prayerful thoughts. It's not hard to imagine how his parents are feeling now. Having gone through all the hardships of raising a child and supported his college education up to the senior year--all through a small laundry business, they only reaped a lifeless body, disfigured by himself and loathed by many, and a lifetime nightmare created through no fault of their own.
- posted on 04/20/2007
This piece is also disturbing to read, and makes you wonder--
"As soon as he started reading, the whole class started laughing and pointing and saying, `Go back to China,'" Davids said.
----------------------------------------------------
ZT
BLACKSBURG, Va. - Long before he boiled over, Virginia Tech gunman Cho Seung-Hui was picked on, pushed around and laughed at over his shyness and the strange way he talked whenhe was a schoolboy in the Washington suburbs, former classmates say.
Chris Davids, a Virginia Tech senior who graduated from Westfield High School in Chantilly, Va., with Cho in 2003, recalled that the South Korean immigrant almost never opened his mouth and would ignore attempts to strike up a conversation.
Once, in English class, the teacher had the students read aloud, and when it was Cho's turn, he just looked down in silence, Davids recalled. Finally, after the teacher threatened him with an F for participation, Cho started to read in a strange, deep voice that sounded "like he had something in his mouth," Davids said.
"As soon as he started reading, the whole class started laughing and pointing and saying, `Go back to China,'" Davids said.
Cho shot 32 people to death and committed suicide Monday in the deadliest one-man shooting rampage in modern U.S. history. The high school classmates' accounts add to the psychological portrait that is beginning to take shape, and could shed light on the video rant Cho mailed to NBC in the middle of his rampage at Virginia Tech.
In the often-incoherent video, the 23-year-old Cho portrays himself as persecuted and rants about rich kids.
"Your Mercedes wasn't enough, you brats," says Cho, who came to the U.S. in 1992 and whose parents work at a dry cleaners in suburban Washington. "Your golden necklaces weren't enough, you snobs. Your trust funds wasn't enough. Your vodka and cognac wasn't enough. All your debaucheries weren't enough. Those weren't enough to fulfill your hedonistic needs. You had everything."
Among the victims of the massacre were two other Westfield High graduates: Reema Samaha and Erin Peterson. Both young women graduated from the high school last year. Police said it is not clear whether Cho singled them out.
Stephanie Roberts, 22, a fellow member of Cho's graduating class at Westfield High, said she never witnessed anyone picking on Cho in high school.
"I just remember he was a shy kid who didn't really want to talk to anybody," she said. "I guess a lot of people felt like maybe there was a language barrier."
But she said friends of hers who went to middle school with Cho told her they recalled him getting picked on there.
"There were just some people who were really mean to him and they would push him down and laugh at him," Roberts said Wednesday. "He didn't speak English really well and they would really make fun of him."
Virginia Tech student Alison Heck said a suitemate of hers on campus — Christina Lilick — found a mysterious question mark scrawled on the dry erase board on her door. Lilick went to the same high school as Cho, according to Lilick's Facebook page. Cho once scrawled a question mark on the sign-in sheet on the first day of a literature class, and other students came to know him as "the question mark kid."
"I don't know if she knew that it was him for sure," Heck said. "I do remember that that fall that she was being stalked and she had mentioned the question mark. And there was a question mark on her door."
Heck added: "She just let us know about it just in case there was a strange person walking around our suite."
Lilick could not immediately be located for comment, via e-mail or telephone.
Regan Wilder, 21, who attended Virginia Tech, high school and middle school with Cho, said she was in several classes with Cho in high school, including advanced-placement calculus and Spanish. She said he walked around with his head down, and almost never spoke. And when he did, it was "a real low mutter, like a whisper."
As part of an exam in Spanish class, students had to answer questions in Spanish on tape, and other students were so curious to know what Cho sounded like that they waited eagerly for the teacher to play his recording, she said. She said that on the tape, he did not speak confidently but did seem to know Spanish.
Wilder recalled high school teachers trying to get him to participate, but "he would only shrug his shoulders or he'd give like two-word responses, and I think it just got to the point where teachers just gave up because they realized he wasn't going to come out of the shell he was in, so they just kind of passed him over for the most part as time went on."
She said she was sure Cho probably was picked on in middle school, but so was everyone else. And it didn't seem as if English was the problem for him, she said. If he didn't speak English well, there were several other Korean students he could have reached out to for friendship, but he didn't, she said.
Wilder said Cho wasn't any friendlier in college, where "he always had that same damn blank stare, like glare, on his face. And I'd always try to make eye contact with him because I recognized the kid because I'd seen him for six years, but he'd always just look right past you like you weren't there."
In other developments, Gov. Timothy Kaine is appointing a five- to seven-member panel to investigate the shootings, the governor's office said Thursday. The panel will review Cho's mental health history and how police responded to the tragedy. The panel will submit a report in two to three months.
University officials also announced that all of Cho's student victims would be awarded degrees posthumously, and that other students terrorized by the shootings might be allowed to end the semester immediately without consequences.
On Wednesday, NBC received a package containing a rambling and often incoherent 23-page written statement from Cho, 28 video clips and 43 photos — many of them showing Cho, in a military-style vest and backward baseball cap, brandishing handguns. A Postal Service time stamp reads 9:01 a.m. — between the two attacks on campus.
The package helped explain one mystery: where the gunman was and what he did during that two-hour window between the first burst of gunfire, at a high-rise dorm, and the second attack, at a classroom building.
"You had a hundred billion chances and ways to have avoided today," a snarling Cho says on video. "But you decided to spill my blood. You forced me into a corner and gave me only one option. The decision was yours. Now you have blood on your hands that will never wash off."
Col. Steve Flaherty, superintendent of the Virginia State Police, said Thursday that the material contained little they did not already know. Flaherty said he was disappointed that NBC decided to broadcast parts of it.
"I just hate that a lot of people not used to seeing that type of image had to see it," he said.
On NBC's "Today" show Thursday, host Meredith Vieira said the decision to air the information "was not taken lightly." Some victims' relatives canceled their plans to speak with NBC because they were upset over the airing of the images, she said.
"I saw his picture on TV, and when I did I just got chills," said Kristy Venning, a junior from Franklin County, Va. "There's really no words. It shows he put so much thought into this and I think it's sick."
There has been some speculation, especially among online forums, that Cho may have been inspired by the South Korean movie "Oldboy." One of the killer's mailed photos shows him brandishing a hammer — the signature weapon of the protagonist — and in a pose similar to one from the film.
The film won the Grand Prix prize at the Cannes Film Festival in 2004. It is about a man unjustly imprisoned for 15 years. After escaping, he goes on a rampage against his captor.
Authorities on Thursday disclosed that more than a year before the massacre, Cho had been accused of sending unwanted messages to two women and was taken to a psychiatric hospital on a magistrate's orders and was pronounced a danger to himself. But he was released with orders to undergo outpatient treatment.
Also, Cho's twisted, violence-filled writings and menacing, uncommunicative demeanor had disturbed professors and students so much that he was removed from one English class and was repeatedly urged to get counseling.
- Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/20/2007
事后诸葛亮 wrote:
This piece is also disturbing to read, and makes you wonder--
"As soon as he started reading, the whole class started laughing and pointing and saying, `Go back to China,"' Davids said.
if it's like this, how could he enter V. Tech ?
yes, America like to say: "Are you from China?...", those type of slangs.
- posted on 04/20/2007
I guess things like these started to happen since he was a immigrant child. Of course his English accent got less and less as he grew up, or may even completely disappear that he entered VT just like native speakers, but the humiliation and insult stay forever.
xw wrote:
事后诸葛亮 wrote:if it's like this, how could he enter V. Tech ?
This piece is also disturbing to read, and makes you wonder--
"As soon as he started reading, the whole class started laughing and pointing and saying, `Go back to China,"' Davids said.
yes, America like to say: "Are you from China?...", those type of slangs.
- posted on 04/20/2007
事后诸葛亮 wrote:
I guess things like these started to happen since he was a immigrant child. Of course his English accent got less and less as he grew up, or may even completely disappear that he entered VT just like native speakers, but the humiliation and insult stay forever.
I don't think it will stay forever.
As a minority in the U.S., he will not only experience the negative side, I don't doubt his English.
Touche may get the point, a literature stu.
- posted on 04/20/2007
我看了一段录象，这个孩子的英文口音非常重，他八岁来美，这是很奇怪的；但是想想他不与人交流也就不怪了。至今没有看到对他家人的直接报道，我都不能想像他的父母姐姐会是什么样的心情和处境。
他有mental health problem是无庸质疑的。这惨案对所有人都是悲剧，虽然可以从导致他行为的社会环境上找根源，我是觉着这枪真是该禁了。一个人在成长过程中出了问题，走向极端，在任何社会，特别是开放社会，都是防不胜防，无法根治，却可以在技术上制造些障碍，降低频率和程度。这个孩子合法地在两个月内买了两支枪，因为Virgina法律一人一个月最多购枪一支。我要是想弄它十几条枪械，有点儿耐心，离家门不远，一年就弄齐了，想着都恐怖。
当然也许会有人说，还是大家持枪不够，若是那些教授学生里有人有枪。。。哼哼，若真碰上讲这样混帐话的人，我倒不知是该哭还是笑了。
我真希望对这个惨案痛定思痛，可以出一些正面的结果，多半又是奢望。 - Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/20/2007
２３岁，不是孩子，是要为自己行为负责的成年人了。 - Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/20/2007
事后诸葛亮 wrote:
This piece is also disturbing to read, and makes you wonder--
"As soon as he started reading, the whole class started laughing and pointing and saying, `Go back to China,"' Davids said.
Could you give the source of this article?
Never mind. Found it.
- posted on 04/20/2007
Completely agree with FuSheng on this point. It takes two things for this kind of MASS KILLING to happen. 1. A crazy person, mentally ill most probably. 2. Access to weapons capable of mass killing (such as guns). As Fusheng pointedly said, there is little you can do with # 1, but we can at least make the access to weapon of mass killing much harder. That way we can likely reduce the probability of this kind horrific tragedy to the very minimum.
Some gun advocates argue that "Gun does not kill. People kill." that is true. But people without gun will not be able to kill so easily, and in such a massive scale. To the determined killers, anything can become a weapon, be it a rock, a kife, or a stick. But nothing but gun can make mass killing so effortless.
In terms of self-defense, I do not think gun is the solution. On the contrary, I think the runaway easy access to guns have made self-defense all the more difficult, even with a gun at your disposal. Rephrasing waht Ron Reagan once said: "Gun will not solve the problem. Gun is the problem."
浮生 wrote:
他有mental health problem是无庸质疑的。这惨案对所有人都是悲剧，虽然可以从导致他行为的社会环境上找根源，我是觉着这枪真是该禁了。一个人在成长过程中出了问题，走向极端，在任何社会，特别是开放社会，都是防不胜防，无法根治，却可以在技术上制造些障碍，降低频率和程度。这个孩子合法地在两个月内买了两支枪，因为Virgina法律一人一个月最多购枪一支。我要是想弄它十几条枪械，有点儿耐心，离家门不远，一年就弄齐了，想着都恐怖。
当然也许会有人说，还是大家持枪不够，若是那些教授学生里有人有枪。。。哼哼，若真碰上讲这样混帐话的人，我倒不知是该哭还是笑了。
我真希望对这个惨案痛定思痛，可以出一些正面的结果，多半又是奢望。 - posted on 04/20/2007
再完善的法律也有漏洞。比如依法精神病人无权买枪，赵去过精神病院，并被诊断有自害可能，但他是‘自动’去医院检查的，因此档案里没有纪录，漏网了。
我的感觉，学校里上课时，楼道里如果有校警巡逻察看，VT这样规模的惨案就可以避免了。
wukong wrote:
Completely agree with FuSheng on this point. It takes two things for this kind of MASS KILLING to happen. 1. A crazy person, mentally ill most probably. 2. Access to weapons capable of mass killing (such as guns). As Fusheng pointedly said, there is little you can do with # 1, but we can at least make the access to weapon of mass killing much harder. That way we can likely reduce the probability of this kind horrific tragedy to the very minimum.
Some gun advocates argue that "Gun does not kill. People kill." that is true. But people without gun will not be able to kill so easily, and in such a massive scale. To the determined killers, anything can become a weapon, be it a rock, a kife, or a stick. But nothing but gun can make mass killing so effortless.
In terms of self-defense, I do not think gun is the solution. In the contrary, I think the runaway easy access to guns have made self-defense all the more difficult, even with a gun at your disposal. Rephrasing waht Ron Reagan once said: "Gun will not solve the problem. Gun is the problem."
浮生 wrote:
他有mental health problem是无庸质疑的。这惨案对所有人都是悲剧，虽然可以从导致他行为的社会环境上找根源，我是觉着这枪真是该禁了。一个人在成长过程中出了问题，走向极端，在任何社会，特别是开放社会，都是防不胜防，无法根治，却可以在技术上制造些障碍，降低频率和程度。这个孩子合法地在两个月内买了两支枪，因为Virgina法律一人一个月最多购枪一支。我要是想弄它十几条枪械，有点儿耐心，离家门不远，一年就弄齐了，想着都恐怖。
当然也许会有人说，还是大家持枪不够，若是那些教授学生里有人有枪。。。哼哼，若真碰上讲这样混帐话的人，我倒不知是该哭还是笑了。
我真希望对这个惨案痛定思痛，可以出一些正面的结果，多半又是奢望。 - posted on 04/20/2007
我的感觉，学校里上课时，楼道里如果有校警巡逻察看，VT这样规模的惨案就可以避免了。那也不一定，弄不好校警先遭殃。
浮生 wrote:
当然也许会有人说，还是大家持枪不够，若是那些教授学生里有人有枪。。。哼哼，若真碰上讲这样混帐话的人，我倒不知是该哭还是笑了。
不是也许，VT 的有些学生已经如是说了。私人拥有枪支对入室抢劫有一定威慑作用，但对在公共场所滥杀无辜没有作用，除非人手一枪。这是一个个人权利和公众利益的平衡问题，有人为前者牺牲后者，走的实在太远了。 - Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/20/2007
guanzhong wrote:
我的感觉，学校里上课时，楼道里如果有校警巡逻察看，VT这样规模的惨案就可以避免了。那也不一定，弄不好校警先遭殃。
那是。但是凶手也就无法从容作案了，更不可能把出口都锁上。
- Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/20/2007
提几个讨论问题：
1． 假设人人拥有枪支可以防止抢劫， 请问当案犯突然入室的时候， 谁的手上正握有枪？
2． 在私拥枪支非法的国家， 抢劫、杀人的比率比美国高多少？
3． 假如只允许合法拥有猎枪长度以上的枪支， 私人住户能否实现威慑性自卫? National Rifle Association的会员能否继续实现打猎的乐趣？ 公共场所的大规模屠杀是否可能大幅度避免？
- posted on 04/20/2007
rzp wrote:
２３岁，不是孩子，是要为自己行为负责的成年人了。
哎，负责又有什么用呢？用现在以眼还眼，以牙还牙的法律来说，他也“负责“了，不是自杀了么。他可自己是觉着在殉道呢。什么又是成人的标准：年龄，法律，行为，思想？他既是杀人者，也是受害者，自己的，和社会的。
正是wukong说的，这件事有两个方面，各有各的防微杜渐或不可解之道。
八十一子 wrote:
我的感觉，学校里上课时，楼道里如果有校警巡逻察看，VT这样规模的惨案就可以避免了。
那可真成了武装社会了，最多是把校园从屠场变战场。还有别的公共场合呢。就不能不以暴制暴么？
- posted on 04/20/2007
是应该禁枪的. 我见过好些人家里藏枪, 而且给我看过. 大多数是自动连发的, 一扣扳机, 对方绝无生还机会. 我当时就劝说他们, 不怕家里的TEENAGE误用了吗? 至少换一种杀伤力很小的.
我初到美国硅谷, 当时单身住在一个社区一段时间. 前面的租客放一把大榔头在床下. 我当时还笑, 我都拿不动. 所幸一直平安. 前几年在中国, 读到旅美一个女作家写的小说, 写一个单身华人女住客被人侵入强暴后寻求公正, 她公开此事后, 反而被华人社会说闲话. 那是另一个主题. 我读了后, 不免后怕.
以前在美国, 一直以为美国是最安全的. 但是, 有两件事情打破了安全感. 一个是911, 太恐怖了. 一个是华尔街的股市风云.
- Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/20/2007
支持个人拥有枪支主要是为了给个人以对抗政府的能力，使政府和政府官员不敢为所欲为。这是美国政治体制的一个重要支柱。不是为了对付罪犯。我到美国第一个月就被教育不要自己跟罪犯搏斗，有问题报警。
浮生 wrote:
当然也许会有人说，还是大家持枪不够，若是那些教授学生里有人有枪。。。哼哼，若真碰上讲这样混帐话的人，我倒不知是该哭还是笑了。
我真希望对这个惨案痛定思痛，可以出一些正面的结果，多半又是奢望。 - posted on 04/20/2007
不得不服啊，这句是非常非常的经典。
当政府的警察过来，向你喊叫的第一句是什么？ "drop your weapon, hands up, freeze, don't move........" 你端着枪不就是挑衅警察直接开火吗？
有能力对抗政府？ 公民持枪是针对早期西部开发时候的政府形同虚设而言，现在小布什有了原子弹，每个公民是否有必要去搞点浓缩铀玩玩呢？
如果是为了权力制肘，就现在普通公民这点武力，你还未走近离白宫五百米距离就被阻击手点击了。
行人 wrote:
支持个人拥有枪支主要是为了给个人以对抗政府的能力，使政府和政府官员不敢为所欲为。这是美国政治体制的一个重要支柱。不是为了对付罪犯。我到美国第一个月就被教育不要自己跟罪犯搏斗，有问题报警。
- Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/20/2007
这是美国建国早期增加第二修正案的原因，但事到如今，这个理由很难成立了。政府的错误从来不是靠人民手里的枪得到纠正的。这个第二修正案已经过时了。
行人 wrote:
支持个人拥有枪支主要是为了给个人以对抗政府的能力，使政府和政府官员不敢为所欲为。这是美国政治体制的一个重要支柱。不是为了对付罪犯。我到美国第一个月就被教育不要自己跟罪犯搏斗，有问题报警。 - posted on 04/20/2007
行人 wrote:
支持个人拥有枪支主要是为了给个人以对抗政府的能力，使政府和政府官员不敢为所欲为。这是美国政治体制的一个重要支柱。不是为了对付罪犯。我到美国第一个月就被教育不要自己跟罪犯搏斗，有问题报警。
这是不错的。不过罪犯扳机一抠，搏斗报警都不要谈。
问题是，现在支持个人拥枪的还是拿给自己以抵抗政府的能力为理由么？来福枪协会的人多数是政府的“朋友“。记得老布什就是成员，他有什么理由？自卫，保家卫国，防止监守自盗？
现在的美国政府若有暴政倾向，两年，四年，必定是选下去了，难道老百姓还揭杆而起不成？更何况，我有两把半自动手枪就对抗的了政府了么？带一把指甲刀连安全门都过不了。结果是只能用来对付手无寸铁的人和动物。
个人拥枪是野蛮时代的产物，那时的美国刚从独立战争中出来，脱离了英国王室的欺压。我们如今虽未脱离野蛮，毕竟文明多了，法律也要与时共进。现在允许个人拥枪，尊重了少数人recreation的权利，违反了大多数人的生存和安全的权利，孰重孰轻？等到校园里都要警察巡逻的时候，还有自由可谈么？
- Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/20/2007
听过一首歌, 喜欢第一句,也只记得第一句 "没有什么可以阻挡, 对自由的向往......"
一个民族有精神,有信仰, 有魂魄.
作为个人, 哀莫大于放弃选择, 悲莫大于任人宰割.
行人 wrote:
支持个人拥有枪支主要是为了给个人以对抗政府的能力，使政府和政府官员不敢为所欲为。这是美国政治体制的一个重要支柱。不是为了对付罪犯。我到美国第一个月就被教育不要自己跟罪犯搏斗，有问题报警。
- posted on 04/20/2007
这里“政府”应该是指每天跟老百姓打交道的基层政府。一个人举只小手枪去挑战联邦政府是挺可笑（也没有理由吧）。不过，面对有枪的民众，县里的地税核查员或者食品卫生检察员还是会稍微有一点点顾忌的吧？
美国各地发展很不均衡。记得念书时开车闲逛，去过一个俄亥俄山里的小镇。做梦也没想到在街上走着竟然被围观，后边跟一串小孩，马路对面的行人都停下来不走了。一问，说从来没见过外国人。镇里的店员不知道怎么收信用卡，从来没使过。这样的地方，sheriff 横行起来不是玩的。
支持持枪的主要是中部和南部，我相信他们是有理由的。 - posted on 04/21/2007
浮生 wrote:
个人拥枪是野蛮时代的产物，那时的美国刚从独立战争中出来，脱离了英国王室的欺压。我们如今虽未脱离野蛮，毕竟文明多了，法律也要与时共进。现在允许个人拥枪，尊重了少数人recreation的权利，违反了大多数人的生存和安全的权利，孰重孰轻？等到校园里都要警察巡逻的时候，还有自由可谈么？
浮生MM，美国大学校园里从来都有警察巡逻，只是他们目前的重点不是教学楼，而是周边和街道。
目前美国有39％的家庭有枪，有54％左右美国人支持拥枪权，不支持公民拥枪的人里又有大约一半认为坚持宪法赋予的权力是很重要的。美国人民是极其不信任政府的，他们担心失去拥枪权只是政府阴谋的第一步，担心接下来会带来更多公民权力的失落和联邦权力的坐大。
老百姓手里的轻武器当然不足以对抗政府，但是根据宪法拥有枪支在美国被多数人看做是公民权力的象征，并没有计划用来抵抗政府的合法行为。
挪威和法国公民拥有枪支的比例接近美国。瑞士是民兵制，国家的枪放在民间。以色列也是全民皆兵。这些国家还没有发生过类似惨案。德国和加拿大限制枪支但并未能够防止校园屠杀。“枪不杀人，人杀人“这句话有一定道理。
我坚决支持我的公民伙伴们通过合法手段修改宪法取缔我的持枪权。:-)
- posted on 04/21/2007
与小布什的反恐斗争如出一辙，为避免这类悲剧的再次发生，就需要杜绝极端份子与杀伤武器的结合点。也就是要么颁布法律禁枪，要么颁布法律限制极端分子的社会活动，或者干脆立法禁止极端分子的产生（人人都必须当主流了）。
我身处中南部，对于这个敏感问题，与几个美国同事交换过意见，非常表层的，因为根本无法深入讨论。其中DN说，枪支不是问题，我从小就是在农场扛着枪长大。我说，悲剧事件总是统计意义上的千分之一，甚至千万分之一，满大街的普通市民人人持枪，并无法排除极端分子的个别行为。MB却说， 禁枪不管用，犯罪分子总能想办法找到枪，比如加拿大云云。我说，那政府又何必煞费心思去禁烟禁酒？要抽要喝不总找得到地方去消遣？ 我们当地刚发生一起十八岁学生酒后驾车的交通命案，警方正在调查给未成年人提供酒者。
九九教授说的民众对政府不信任，是共和党的一贯主张，但我不知道民众持枪能解决多少信任危机的问题。在资本社会，这个说到底是一个成本问题，禁枪的成本与各级社会机构越来越大的保安预算如何相比，正如同国安部无孔不入的反恐开销与掠夺伊拉克的石油利润如何相比？对于这些，估计在校平均成绩C_的小布什早就心算好了。
当然有人会说公民的持枪自由神圣不可剥夺，更不能用货币计算，那么这些逐年增多的枪击受害者的生命又如何少一分神圣？又该如何计量呢？
- posted on 04/21/2007
Aftermath thought:
1. I do not see enough justification for BNC & other media to show the video & picture of the gunman repeatedly. It did not help the public or the athority to seek out solution. It gave the victims' family and survivors sinking feeling for the nightmare they had. It gave other mad or lost people out there a very good hint to get their voice & face known for whatever wicked plan they wanted or are going to carry out.
2. Chinese communities or organizations should seek class legal action upon some media for spreading unverified news which projected a very bad image on Chinese nationals as a whole.
- Re: 缇庡浗鏍″洯鏋嚮22姝� 21浼�posted on 04/21/2007
行人 wrote:
这里“政府”应该是指每天跟老百姓打交道的基层政府。一个人举只小手枪去挑战联邦政府是挺可笑（也没有理由吧）。不过，面对有枪的民众，县里的地税核查员或者食品卫生检察员还是会稍微有一点点顾忌的吧？
可不要小瞧了美国的民间武装组织。俄克拉哈马联邦大楼被炸毁是他们干的，是为了替大卫教复仇。他们认为政府镇压大卫教时使用武力过当。
Please paste HTML code and press Enter.
- 浠よ儭鍐�
- #1 July
- #2 wukong
- #3 xw
- #4 sands
- #5 guanzhong
- #6 July
- #7 guanzhong
- #8 July
- #9 rzp
- #10 xw
- #11 July
- #12 guanzhong
- #13 楣垮笇
- #14 wukong
- #15 cai123
- #16 EC
- #17 EC
- #18 EC
- #19 EC
- #20 EC
- #21 EC
- #22 EC
- #23 浠よ儭鍐�
- #24 qinggang
- #25 浠よ儭鍐�
- #26 qinggang
- #27 浠よ儭鍐�
- #28 wukong
- #29 xw
- #30 浠よ儭鍐�
- #31 Hua
- #32 浜嬪悗璇歌憶浜�
- #33 rzp
- #34 qinggang
- #35 浜嬪悗璇歌憶浜�
- #36 qinggang
- #37 lucy
- #38 浠よ儭鍐�
- #39 浜嬪悗璇歌憶浜�
- #40 Hua
- #41 qinggang
- #42 July
- #43 qinggang
- #44 浜嬪悗璇歌憶浜�
- #45 qinggang
- #46 July
- #47 qinggang
- #48 July
- #49 feiming
- #50 qinggang
- #51 榛庢睙
- #52 qinggang
- #53 浠よ儭鍐�
- #54 浜嬪悗璇歌憶浜�
- #55 浠よ儭鍐�
- #56 wukong
- #57 touche
- #58 鍏崄涓�瀛�
- #59 guanzhong
- #60 姊﹀唹
- #61 浜嬪悗璇歌憶浜�
- #62 Ruozhi
- #63 guanzhong
- #64 灏忚挷
- #65 xw
- #66 鐜涢泤
- #67 浜嬪悗璇歌憶浜�
- #68 Fengzi
- #69 涓�鑰佽鑰�
- #70 浜嬪悗璇歌憶浜�
- #71 鐜涢泤
- #72 涓�鑰佽鑰�
- #73 newman
- #74 qinggang
- #75 xw
- #76 涓�鎵规柊璇昏��
- #77 xw
- #78 ben ben
- #79 yc
- #80 浜嬪悗璇歌憶浜�
- #81 xw
- #82 浜嬪悗璇歌憶浜�
- #83 xw
- #84 娴敓
- #85 rzp
- #86 guanzhong
- #87 wukong
- #88 鍏崄涓�瀛�
- #89 guanzhong
- #90 鍏崄涓�瀛�
- #91 浜嬪悗璇歌憶浜�
- #92 娴敓
- #93 姊﹀唹
- #94 琛屼汉
- #95 浜嬪悗璇歌憶浜�
- #96 guanzhong
- #97 娴敓
- #98 ben ben
- #99 琛屼汉
- #100 鍏崄涓�瀛�
- #101 WOA
- #102 rzp
- #103 鍏崄涓�瀛�
(c) 2010 Maya Chilam Foundation